Interview

COLLECTION NAME:

Deaf Studies, Culture, and History Archives

mediaCollectionId

RIT~7~7

Deaf Studies, Culture, and History Archives

Collection

true

Filename:

ds_0027_cookinterview_cap_01.mp4

filename

ds_0027_cookinterview_cap_01.mp4

Filename

false

Identifier:

ds_0027_cookinterview_cap_01.mp4

identifier

ds_0027_cookinterview_cap_01.mp4

Identifier

false

Title:

Interview

title

Interview

Title

false

Creator:

Cook, Peter S.

creator

Cook, Peter S.

Creator

false

Subject:

Cook, Peter S. Interviews

subject

Cook, Peter S. Interviews

Subject

false

Subject:

American Sign Language literature

subject

American Sign Language literature

Subject

false

Subject:

Deaf, Writings of the, American

subject

Deaf, Writings of the, American

Subject

false

Subject:

Deaf Poetry

subject

Deaf Poetry

Subject

false

Subject:

American poetry 20th century

subject

American poetry 20th century

Subject

false

Subject:

American poetry 21st century

subject

American poetry 21st century

Subject

false

Subject:

ASL poetry

subject

ASL poetry

Subject

false

Summary:

Part of a collection of interviews made for a film on ASL poetry, "The Heart of the Hydrogen Jukebox." Peter Cook describes how he became deaf at age 3, the schools he attended (both Deaf oral schools and private high school). In high school, he met Bernard Bragg at the 100th anniversary of the National Association of the Deaf in Ohio where he took a visual vernacular workshop. He selected NTID due to his interest in photography. NTID was a turning point in his life as he joined the theatre and participated in 'The Tempest' play. This experience exposed him to fluent Deaf signers and role models like Patrick Graybill. He became a B-A-D, or a 'Born Again Deaf'. He took classes in translation with both Robert Panara and Patrick Graybill who emphasized different aspects. Panara transliterated English works like 'Spoon River Anthology', and Graybill showed him ASL handshapes and rhythms. Cook loved watching Panara sign poetry, including 'On His Deafness.' He joined a performance group, 'Heavy Maze' and they would adapt perform at The Cellar, a bar at RIT/ NTID. This is how he met Jim Cohn who complimented him on his poetry work, and encouraged him to attend the 1984 Allen Ginsberg presentation with Robert Panara. That experience totally changed his life as Ginsberg opened his mind as to other possibilities of what poetry could be. The translation of 'hydrogen jukebox' by Graybill from the poem 'Howl' captivated him in its use of imagery. Unshackled by the confines of English, Cook used the visual vernacular (VV) with his body becoming the screen with the visual image of the poem on the body, showing different camera angles like close-ups, zooms, and various shots. After this, Jim Cohn gave him the book, 'Bird Brain' and encouraged him to perform out in the hearing community as well. The 'Bird Brain Society' was formed and they met in The Cellar. Another turning point occurred when Jim Cohn introduced him to Kenny Lerner, an interpreter. Cook shared his first poem after the Ginsberg event called 'New Life', a dinosaur poem, and they had a great connection.He did not know how to use an interpreter as he had never used one before, but trusted Kenny. The first time they performed together, people did not know what to make of the performance as it was so different. He describes meeting Debbie Rennie, another Deaf poet and he loved her style different from other poets. Kenny, Debbie, and Peter became roommates and they played daily with poetry ideas. In 1987, Jim Cohn set up the first ASL Poetry conference and there were five Deaf poets: Ella Mae Lentz, Patrick Graybill, Debbie Rennie, Clayton Valli, and Peter Cook. He learned a great deal from these Deaf poets as he was young and still gaining experience. This was a unique time in Rochester's history as Deaf people as well as the larger hearing community enjoyed sign poetry and interpreters also got involved such as Susan Chapel, Miriam Lerner, Bob Barrett, Cindy Barrett, Donna, and Jim Cohn. There were articles in mainstream publications about them and their poetry. At this time, Cook and Lerner received grant monies for Deaf poetry presentations at Writers and Books. For one of the programs there, Serge Bri??re, Johanne Boulanger, Kenny and Peter performed a Holocaust poem, 'Only 13'. He describes Serge's work which fascinated him because of the way he used his hands and eyes. Cook discusses the influence of other Deaf poets' works, like Dorothy Miles, Joseph Castronovo, and Malz (Eric Malzkuhn), all connected with the National Theatre of the Deaf. Although some of these sign artists are gone, their works continue to live on and documentation is so important, so younger Deaf people can learn from them.

description

Part of a collection of interviews made for a film on ASL poetry, "The Heart of the Hydrogen Jukebox." Peter Cook describes how he became deaf at age 3, the schools he attended (both Deaf oral schools and private high school). In high school, he met Bernard Bragg at the 100th anniversary of the National Association of the Deaf in Ohio where he took a visual vernacular workshop. He selected NTID due to his interest in photography. NTID was a turning point in his life as he joined the theatre and participated in 'The Tempest' play. This experience exposed him to fluent Deaf signers and role models like Patrick Graybill. He became a B-A-D, or a 'Born Again Deaf'. He took classes in translation with both Robert Panara and Patrick Graybill who emphasized different aspects. Panara transliterated English works like 'Spoon River Anthology', and Graybill showed him ASL handshapes and rhythms. Cook loved watching Panara sign poetry, including 'On His Deafness.' He joined a performance group, 'Heavy Maze' and they would adapt perform at The Cellar, a bar at RIT/ NTID. This is how he met Jim Cohn who complimented him on his poetry work, and encouraged him to attend the 1984 Allen Ginsberg presentation with Robert Panara. That experience totally changed his life as Ginsberg opened his mind as to other possibilities of what poetry could be. The translation of 'hydrogen jukebox' by Graybill from the poem 'Howl' captivated him in its use of imagery. Unshackled by the confines of English, Cook used the visual vernacular (VV) with his body becoming the screen with the visual image of the poem on the body, showing different camera angles like close-ups, zooms, and various shots. After this, Jim Cohn gave him the book, 'Bird Brain' and encouraged him to perform out in the hearing community as well. The 'Bird Brain Society' was formed and they met in The Cellar. Another turning point occurred when Jim Cohn introduced him to Kenny Lerner, an interpreter. Cook shared his first poem after the Ginsberg event called 'New Life', a dinosaur poem, and they had a great connection.He did not know how to use an interpreter as he had never used one before, but trusted Kenny. The first time they performed together, people did not know what to make of the performance as it was so different. He describes meeting Debbie Rennie, another Deaf poet and he loved her style different from other poets. Kenny, Debbie, and Peter became roommates and they played daily with poetry ideas. In 1987, Jim Cohn set up the first ASL Poetry conference and there were five Deaf poets: Ella Mae Lentz, Patrick Graybill, Debbie Rennie, Clayton Valli, and Peter Cook. He learned a great deal from these Deaf poets as he was young and still gaining experience. This was a unique time in Rochester's history as Deaf people as well as the larger hearing community enjoyed sign poetry and interpreters also got involved such as Susan Chapel, Miriam Lerner, Bob Barrett, Cindy Barrett, Donna, and Jim Cohn. There were articles in mainstream publications about them and their poetry. At this time, Cook and Lerner received grant monies for Deaf poetry presentations at Writers and Books. For one of the programs there, Serge Bri??re, Johanne Boulanger, Kenny and Peter performed a Holocaust poem, 'Only 13'. He describes Serge's work which fascinated him because of the way he used his hands and eyes. Cook discusses the influence of other Deaf poets' works, like Dorothy Miles, Joseph Castronovo, and Malz (Eric Malzkuhn), all connected with the National Theatre of the Deaf. Although some of these sign artists are gone, their works continue to live on and documentation is so important, so younger Deaf people can learn from them.

Summary

false

Publisher:

National Technical Institute for the Deaf

publisher

National Technical Institute for the Deaf

Publisher

false

Digital Publisher:

Rochester Institute of Technology - RIT Libraries - RIT Archive Collections

digital_publisher

Rochester Institute of Technology - RIT Libraries - RIT Archive Collections

Digital Publisher

false

Contributor:

Lerner, Miriam Nathan.

contributor

Lerner, Miriam Nathan.

Contributor

false

Date of Original:

2007

date

2007

Date of Original

false

Date of Digitization:

2018

date_of_digitization

2018

Date of Digitization

false

Broad Type:

moving image

broad_type

moving image

Broad Type

false

Digital File Format:

mp4

format

mp4

Digital File Format

false

Physical Format:

DVD

physical_format

DVD

Physical Format

false

Dimensions of Original:

138 minutes

dimensions_of_original

138 minutes

Dimensions of Original

false

Language:

American Sign Language

language

American Sign Language

Language

false

Language:

English

language

English

Language

false

Original Item Location:

RITDSA.0027

relation

RITDSA.0027

Original Item Location

false

Library Collection:

Sculptures in the Air: An Accessible Online Video Repository of the American Sign Language (ASL) Poetry and Literature Collections

original_item_location

Sculptures in the Air: An Accessible Online Video Repository of the American Sign Language (ASL) Poetry and Literature Collections

Library Collection

false

Library Collection:

Miriam and Kenneth Lerner ASL Poetry Collection

original_item_location

Miriam and Kenneth Lerner ASL Poetry Collection

Library Collection

false

Digital Project:

2018-2019 CLIR Grant-ASL Poetry and Literature

digital_projects__

2018-2019 CLIR Grant-ASL Poetry and Literature

Digital Project

false

Catalog Record:

https://albert.rit.…

catalog_record

https://albert.rit.edu/record=b3955929

Catalog Record

false

Catalog Record:

https://archivesspa…

catalog_record

https://archivesspace.rit.edu/repositories/2/resources/815

Catalog Record

false

Place:

New York - Rochester

coverage

New York - Rochester

Place

false

RIT Spaces and Places:

Henrietta Campus

rit_spaces_and_places_ii

Henrietta Campus

RIT Spaces and Places

false

Rights:

RIT Libraries makes materials from its collections available for educational and research purposes pursuant to U.S. Copyright Law. You are free to use this Item in any way that is permitted by the copyright and related rights legislation that applies to your use. It is your responsibility to obtain permission from the copyright holder to publish or reproduce images in print or electronic form.

rights

RIT Libraries makes materials from its collections available for educational and research purposes pursuant to U.S. Copyright Law. You are free to use this Item in any way that is permitted by the copyright and related rights legislation that applies to your use. It is your responsibility to obtain permission from the copyright holder to publish or reproduce images in print or electronic form.

Rights

false

Rights:

CC BY-NC-ND: Attribution NonCommercial NoDerivatives 4.0 International

rights

CC BY-NC-ND: Attribution NonCommercial NoDerivatives 4.0 International

Rights

false

Transcript:

1 00:00:01:15 --:--:--:--

2 00:00:03:15 --:--:--:--
I WAS HEARING UNTIL ABOUT
THE AGE OF 3, AND THEN I

3 00:00:08:09 --:--:--:--
DEVELOPED SPINAL MENINGITIS.

4 00:00:12:14 --:--:--:--
AND I TRY TO LOOK BACK AND
SEE IF I CAN REMEMBER ANY

5 00:00:15:29 --:--:--:--
SOUNDS, AND I CAN'T REALLY,
BUT THEY MAY BE IN THERE

6 00:00:20:04 --:--:--:--
SOMEWHERE IN THE
BACK OF MY MIND.

7 00:00:22:21 --:--:--:--
BUT ANYWAY, WHEN I WAS LITTLE,
I HAD JUST GOTTEN HOME FROM

8 00:00:27:08 --:--:--:--
THE HOSPITAL.

9 00:00:30:13 --:--:--:--
I REMEMBER MY MOM CAME UP TO
ME, AND I SEE THAT SHE WAS

10 00:00:35:15 --:--:--:--
TALKING, BUT I THOUGHT,
"OH, MOM, YOU'RE SO SILLY.

11 00:00:39:22 --:--:--:--
WHERE'S YOUR VOICE?
DID IT BREAK?"

12 00:00:42:29 --:--:--:--
AND THEN MY DAD STARTED,
AND I WENT, "WHOA...HE DOESN'T

13 00:00:49:04 --:--:--:--
"HAVE ANY VOICE.

14 00:00:50:21 --:--:--:--
HIS VOICE IS BROKEN, TOO."

15 00:00:53:06 --:--:--:--
AND THEN MY DOG.

16 00:00:54:17 --:--:--:--
I SAW THAT IT WAS BARKING,
AND THERE WASN'T ANY SOUND.

17 00:00:59:15 --:--:--:--
AND I TURNED ON THE TV,

18 00:01:02:00 --:--:--:--
AND THERE WASN'T ANY SOUND.

19 00:01:03:23 --:--:--:--
AND I REALIZED I'M THE
ONE WHO'S "BROKEN."

20 00:01:09:01 --:--:--:--
AND YOU KNOW, COMMUNICATION
BECAME A HUGE FRUSTRATION.

21 00:01:12:12 --:--:--:--
I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY ALL
THE DETAILS, BUT I HAD TO

22 00:01:16:16 --:--:--:--
LEARN EVERYTHING
ALL OVER AGAIN,

23 00:01:19:06 00:01:21:18
AND IT WAS A VERY
DIFFICULT TIME.

24 00:01:24:00 --:--:--:--
I WENT TO THE SCHOOL FOR THE
DEAF IN NEW JERSEY--THE MKSD.

25 00:01:29:20 --:--:--:--
AND AT THAT TIME, THEY
WERE AN ORAL PROGRAM.

26 00:01:32:15 --:--:--:--
THERE WAS NO SIGN LANGUAGE.

27 00:01:35:00 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, SO UP UNTIL ABOUT
FIRST, SECOND, THIRD GRADE.

28 00:01:39:07 --:--:--:--
AND MY PARENTS WEREN'T REALLY
HAPPY WITH THAT, SO THEY

29 00:01:41:10 --:--:--:--
TRANSFERRED ME TO THE CLARKE
SCHOOL IN MASSACHUSETTS.

30 00:01:45:15 --:--:--:--
AND AGAIN, A VERY
STRONG ORAL PROGRAM.

31 00:01:48:28 --:--:--:--
AND I DIDN'T KNOW ANY
SIGN LANGUAGE WHATSOEVER,

32 00:01:52:10 --:--:--:--
BUT I WAS REALLY, REALLY
INTERESTED IN THEATER.

33 00:01:56:19 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, BECAUSE GROWING UP,
I HAD TO COMMUNICATE

34 00:01:58:17 --:--:--:--
WITH GESTURES.

35 00:02:00:03 --:--:--:--
I REMEMBER SEEING CHARLIE
CHAPLIN, YOU KNOW THE LITTLE

36 00:02:04:26 --:--:--:--
HOBO, TRAMP GUY, AND I
WOULD LAUGH AND LAUGH.

37 00:02:08:08 --:--:--:--
MY FAMILY WOULD
LAUGH, TOO.

38 00:02:11:00 --:--:--:--
I THOUGHT, "WELL, HEARING
AND DEAF PEOPLE ENJOY

39 00:02:14:04 --:--:--:--
THE SAME THINGS."

40 00:02:15:13 --:--:--:--
AND HE BECAME MY HERO.

41 00:02:17:05 --:--:--:--
HE DIDN'T TALK.
HE DIDN'T SIGN, ANYTHING.

42 00:02:19:16 --:--:--:--
I THOUGHT HE WAS JUST GREAT.

43 00:02:21:26 --:--:--:--
AND THAT HAD A
HUGE IMPACT ON ME.

44 00:02:25:15 --:--:--:--
SO I DIDN'T KNOW ANY SIGN
LANGUAGE, AND I GOT ALONG

45 00:02:28:15 --:--:--:--
GESTURING.

46 00:02:29:28 --:--:--:--
I DIDN'T KNOW ANY DEAF
PEOPLE UNTIL...LET'S SEE,

47 00:02:33:15 --:--:--:--
ABOUT THE LAST YEAR
AT CLARK SCHOOL.

48 00:02:37:00 --:--:--:--
THEY WERE HOSTING A BASKETBALL
TOURNAMENT, WHICH ALL THESE

49 00:02:41:09 00:02:43:00
DEAF SCHOOLS CAME INTO TOWN.

50 00:02:47:15 --:--:--:--
ALL THE OTHER STUDENTS HAD
GONE HOME, LEAVING JUST ME.

51 00:02:52:00 --:--:--:--
I WAS WORKING TICKET SALES.

52 00:02:54:05 --:--:--:--
SO THAT'S WHY THEY LET
ME STAY, SO I SAT THERE

53 00:02:57:23 00:02:59:11
AT THE TABLE, AND...

54 00:03:03:15 --:--:--:--
THEY WOULD SAY SOMETHING,
AND I WOULD GO, UM...

55 00:03:07:00 --:--:--:--
"THE COST IS A DOLLAR,
BUT I CAN'T SIGN."

56 00:03:11:14 --:--:--:--
AND THEY WOULD LOOK AT ME,
AND I'D GO "ONE DOLLAR?"

57 00:03:14:27 --:--:--:--
IT'S LIKE A DEAF PERSON
TALKING TO A PERSON

58 00:03:17:15 --:--:--:--
WHO'S DEAF WHO SIGNS.

59 00:03:19:00 00:03:22:15
AND THEY'RE GOING, "THE GUY
CAN ONLY READ LIPS AND..."

60 00:03:25:15 --:--:--:--
THEY SEEM TO HAVE SUCH
AN EASY TIME OF IT.

61 00:03:28:29 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, I HAD TO ALWAYS
STRUGGLE WITH MY FRIENDS

62 00:03:31:08 --:--:--:--
AND ASK THEM TO REPEAT LIKE,
"WHAT DID YOU SAY?

63 00:03:33:16 --:--:--:--
WHAT DID YOU SAY?"

64 00:03:36:12 --:--:--:--
I WAS 15 YEARS OLD.
I REMEMBER THIS CLEARLY.

65 00:03:41:15 --:--:--:--
IT WAS AT NIGHT, AND I WAS IN
BED PRACTICING THE ALPHABET BY

66 00:03:45:00 --:--:--:--
MYSELF, MAYBE "A" TO "F"
OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

67 00:03:49:15 --:--:--:--
I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THE
ENTIRE ALPHABET AT THAT TIME.

68 00:03:53:17 --:--:--:--
AFTER CLARKE SCHOOL--I WENT
THERE TO EIGHTH GRADE--

69 00:03:57:00 --:--:--:--
AND I WENT TO A HIGH
SCHOOL IN PENNSYLVANIA,

70 00:03:59:00 --:--:--:--
A HEARING SCHOOL.

71 00:04:00:15 --:--:--:--
AND I WAS THE ONLY
DEAF CHILD THERE.

72 00:04:02:15 --:--:--:--
THERE WAS NO INTERPRETER.

73 00:04:05:07 --:--:--:--
IT WAS A BOARDING SCHOOL,
PRIVATE SCHOOL, SO VERY STRONG

74 00:04:08:16 --:--:--:--
ARTS PROGRAM.

75 00:04:10:25 --:--:--:--
AND THAT'S WHERE I REALLY GOT
MY INITIAL INTEREST IN POETRY,

76 00:04:14:13 --:--:--:--
WHICH IT WAS WRITTEN POETRY,
NOT, YOU KNOW, THE TYPE

77 00:04:17:22 --:--:--:--
OF EXPRESSIVE
POETRY THAT I DO.

78 00:04:22:13 --:--:--:--
A LOT OF MY FRIENDS WERE THE
FOREIGN STUDENTS BECAUSE THEY

79 00:04:25:25 --:--:--:--
WERE ENGLISH
INHIBITED AS WELL.

80 00:04:28:26 --:--:--:--
SO WE HAD TO GESTURE
BACK AND FORTH.

81 00:04:31:03 --:--:--:--
[SIREN IN BACKGROUND]

82 00:04:34:21 --:--:--:--
I THINK IT WAS THE NAD,
THEY HAD THEIR HUNDREDTH

83 00:04:39:17 --:--:--:--
CONFERENCE IN OHIO, AND I SAW
ALL THESE DEAF PEOPLE SIGNING,

84 00:04:43:00 --:--:--:--
AND I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT.

85 00:04:44:19 --:--:--:--
AND I ADMIT THERE WERE A LOT
OF PRETTY GIRLS, SO THAT WAS

86 00:04:47:07 00:04:49:00
SORT OF A MOTIVATION.

87 00:04:52:25 --:--:--:--
SO THE NAD CONFERENCE--I WENT
THERE BECAUSE I HAD A FRIEND

88 00:04:57:17 --:--:--:--
OF MINE FROM CLARKE SCHOOL,
AND HE HAD A DEAF SISTER,

89 00:05:02:00 --:--:--:--
AN OLDER DEAF SISTER WHO
HAD BEEN INVOLVED IN NAD,

90 00:05:05:06 --:--:--:--
AND SHE SAID, "YOU KNOW,
YOU SHOULD GO."

91 00:05:08:15 --:--:--:--
I THOUGHT, "OK.

92 00:05:10:11 --:--:--:--
"IF THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT
OF DEAF PEOPLE THERE,

93 00:05:12:15 --:--:--:--
OH, THAT WOULD BE GREAT" BECAUSE
AT HIGH SCHOOL, I WAS ALL

94 00:05:14:20 --:--:--:--
ON MY OWN, BUT TO BE
THERE, I THOUGHT "GREAT!"

95 00:05:18:15 --:--:--:--
AND WHAT A DIFFERENCE!

96 00:05:21:15 --:--:--:--
THERE 24 HOURS, DAY IN AND
DAY OUT WITH JUST DEAF PEOPLE

97 00:05:26:15 --:--:--:--
AND THEN GOING BACK TO
AS HIGH SCHOOL SENIOR.

98 00:05:31:00 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, I COULDN'T
LIVE THAT WAY.

99 00:05:33:00 --:--:--:--
I JUST COULDN'T.

100 00:05:35:15 --:--:--:--
SO I STARTED LOOKING INTO
DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES--

101 00:05:38:15 00:05:41:00
GALLAUDET OR NTID.

102 00:05:43:15 --:--:--:--
MY TEACHERS RECOMMENDED THAT
I GO TO RIT BECAUSE OF THEIR

103 00:05:46:21 --:--:--:--
STRONG PHOTOGRAPHY PROGRAM.

104 00:05:49:07 --:--:--:--
SO I THOUGHT, "YES,"
AND I VISITED GALLAUDET.

105 00:05:53:10 --:--:--:--
I ENDED UP PICKING NTID...

106 00:05:57:26 --:--:--:--
AND IT WAS A COMPLETELY
NEW WORLD FOR ME.

107 00:06:00:23 --:--:--:--
I FELT THAT I WAS B-A-D--
BORN-AGAIN DEAF. HA HA!

108 00:06:05:15 --:--:--:--
SO, I MEAN, THE FIRST DAY--

109 00:06:08:07 --:--:--:--
AND NOW, REMEMBER,
THIS WAS THE EIGHTIES.

110 00:06:10:10 --:--:--:--
I HAD MY LITTLE SKINNY
NECKTIE, MY PANTS, YOU KNOW,

111 00:06:14:03 --:--:--:--
MY HAIRDO, KIND OF
PUNK AT THAT TIME.

112 00:06:19:21 --:--:--:--
IMMEDIATELY, I STARTED MEETING
SOME DEAF PEOPLE, GOING,

113 00:06:21:15 --:--:--:--
"ARE YOU DEAF OR HEARING?"
AND I SAID, "WELL, I'M DEAF."

114 00:06:23:00 --:--:--:--
AND THEY WENT, "OH,
YOU DON'T LOOK DEAF."

115 00:06:26:28 --:--:--:--
IT'S BECAUSE I WASN'T
A "D" DEAF AT THAT POINT.

116 00:06:31:01 --:--:--:--
HAD IT WRITTEN ALL OVER ME
THAT I WAS A LITTLE "d" DEAF.

117 00:06:35:00 --:--:--:--
AND THEY COULD SEE IT.
I MEAN IT WAS OBVIOUS

118 00:06:37:00 --:--:--:--
IN EVERYTHING ABOUT ME,
HOW I BEHAVED.

119 00:06:39:00 --:--:--:--
I MEAN, THEY CAUGHT
ON RIGHT AWAY,

120 00:06:42:00 --:--:--:--
REALLY WAS A
MEMORABLE MOMENT FOR ME.

121 00:06:46:15 --:--:--:--
AND I REMEMBER I GOT
INVOLVED IN LANGUAGE,

122 00:06:50:14 --:--:--:--
I MEAN, TOTALLY INVOLVED
IN LANGUAGE.

123 00:06:54:15 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, PEOPLE MIGHT'VE
MADE FUN OF ME BECAUSE OF MY

124 00:06:57:00 --:--:--:--
SIGN LANGUAGE.

125 00:06:58:13 --:--:--:--
WELL THAT'S FINE.
I CAN TAKE THE TEASING.

126 00:07:00:26 00:07:05:01
BUT I FELT HONORED TO BE
LOOKED AT AND ACCEPTED.

127 00:07:11:00 --:--:--:--
THE ONE THING THAT
WAS THERE WAS THEATER.

128 00:07:13:15 --:--:--:--
IN THE FALL, I WAS INVOLVED IN
A PLAY CALLED "THE TEMPEST."

129 00:07:18:15 --:--:--:--
AND I PLAYED THE CHARACTER
CALIBAN, WHO'S HALF-ANIMAL,

130 00:07:22:15 --:--:--:--
HALF-MAN.

131 00:07:24:06 --:--:--:--
AND THEY PICKED ME
BECAUSE I COULDN'T SIGN.

132 00:07:26:14 --:--:--:--
THEY SAID, "WOW, YOU'RE
A LOUSY SIGNER.

133 00:07:28:10 --:--:--:--
YOU'LL BE PERFECT!
DON'T LEARN ANY."

134 00:07:31:05 --:--:--:--
AND TO THIS DAY, I DON'T KNOW
IF THAT'S A COMPLIMENT

135 00:07:33:15 --:--:--:--
OR AN INSULT.
I STILL DON'T KNOW.

136 00:07:36:26 --:--:--:--
WHAT A GREAT EXPERIENCE.

137 00:07:38:21 --:--:--:--
PATRICK GRAYBILL WAS THERE,
GET TO WORK WITH HIM AND SEE

138 00:07:42:01 --:--:--:--
HIS PROCESS, AND IT WAS
INCREDIBLE, PLUS ALL THESE

139 00:07:45:10 --:--:--:--
OTHER--THE DEAF STUDENTS AND
ACTORS WHO HAD AN ENORMOUS

140 00:07:48:26 --:--:--:--
IMPACT ON ME.

141 00:07:50:02 --:--:--:--
IT WAS INCREDIBLE!

142 00:07:53:05 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, THE FUNNY THING IS,
AT THAT TIME I THOUGHT I WAS

143 00:07:55:24 --:--:--:--
PRETTY SKILLED, AND
OF COURSE I WASN'T.

144 00:07:58:28 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, BEFORE I WAS
THINKING LIKE, "OH, YEAH!"

145 00:08:01:08 --:--:--:--
BUT YOU KNOW, I WAS YOUNG,
KIND OF YOUNG AND FOOLISH

146 00:08:04:15 00:08:07:15
AND ARROGANT. HA HA HA!

147 00:08:13:00 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT THE PHYSICALITY

148 00:08:15:13 --:--:--:--
IN THE COMMUNICATION,
THAT COMES FROM THEATER.

149 00:08:18:04 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, IN HIGH SCHOOL,
I WAS IN A PLAY

150 00:08:20:15 --:--:--:--
"ONCE UPON A MATTRESS."

151 00:08:22:11 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, "ONCE UPON A
MATTRESS," THE PRINCESS

152 00:08:25:07 --:--:--:--
AND THE PEA STORY.

153 00:08:27:08 --:--:--:--
I WAS THE KING, AND
THE KING CAN'T TALK.

154 00:08:30:10 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW EVERYBODY IGNORES THE
KING, AND THEN THEY HAVE

155 00:08:35:22 --:--:--:--
THE JESTER THERE, AND HE
TALKS FOR THE KING.

156 00:08:39:06 --:--:--:--
SO I HAD LINES...AND THE
DIRECTOR SAID, "THAT'S PERFECT.

157 00:08:44:24 --:--:--:--
DO GESTURES FOR THAT."

158 00:08:46:24 --:--:--:--
AND THAT'S WHERE I FIRST
STARTED EXPERIMENTING WITH

159 00:08:49:15 --:--:--:--
THE IDEA OF TAKING WORDS AND
MAKING THEM PHYSICAL, MAKING

160 00:08:54:00 --:--:--:--
IT KINETIC.

161 00:08:55:17 --:--:--:--
THAT KINETIC ENERGY,
THE MOVEMENT.

162 00:08:58:11 --:--:--:--
SO THERE WAS A SONG THAT I HAD
TO TEACH MY SON, THE PRINCE,

163 00:09:02:15 --:--:--:--
ABOUT THE FACTS OF LIFE.

164 00:09:04:00 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, THE BIRDS AND THE
BEES AND ALL THIS, BUT YOU

165 00:09:07:15 --:--:--:--
DON'T TELL THEM STRAIGHT OUT.

166 00:09:09:00 --:--:--:--
AND HE'S GOING, "DAD, WHAT
ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?"

167 00:09:12:00 --:--:--:--
I WOULD ACT IT OUT.

168 00:09:13:15 --:--:--:--
I'D BE LIKE THE LITTLE BIRD
IN THE FLOWER COLLECTING

169 00:09:16:00 --:--:--:--
THE POLLEN, AND THEN
THERE'D BE A BABY.

170 00:09:19:15 --:--:--:--
AND GESTURING OUT THE WHOLE
THING, AND HE'S SAYING,

171 00:09:22:00 00:09:23:22
"I DON'T UNDERSTAND."

172 00:09:25:15 --:--:--:--
MAYBE HE WAS MY FIRST
INTERPRETER, BECAUSE IT WAS

173 00:09:29:15 --:--:--:--
AGE OF I7--I WAS STILL
GESTURING THE WHOLE THING AWAY.

174 00:09:35:00 --:--:--:--
AND FOR THE WHOLE SHOW,
GESTURING, AND I THOUGHT,

175 00:09:37:15 00:09:39:15
"THAT'S COMMUNICATION."

176 00:09:41:24 --:--:--:--
A TEACHER WOULD ASK ME,
"HOW DO I DO THIS?"

177 00:09:44:00 --:--:--:--
AND I'D GO, "WELL, LIKE THIS."

178 00:09:45:15 --:--:--:--
AND THEY GO, "OH, I
NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT."

179 00:09:48:13 --:--:--:--
SO I THOUGHT, WELL, YOU KNOW,
I'VE GOT SOMETHING

180 00:09:51:27 --:--:--:--
SPECIAL INSIDE.

181 00:09:54:18 --:--:--:--
SO I REALLY TOOK
IT FROM THERE.

182 00:09:57:13 --:--:--:--
AND THEN, I SAW BERNARD BRAGG.

183 00:09:59:28 --:--:--:--
THIS WAS BACK TO THE NAD,
THE FIRST TIME I SAW

184 00:10:02:26 --:--:--:--
BERNARD BRAGG WAS THERE.

185 00:10:04:11 00:10:08:12
HE WAS GIVING A WORKSHOP
ON VISUAL VERNACULAR--V.V.

186 00:10:11:00 --:--:--:--
SO, THE WORKSHOP WAS WITH
BERNARD BRAGG, AND I REMEMBER

187 00:10:14:03 --:--:--:--
THIS CLEARLY.

188 00:10:15:13 --:--:--:--
I DIDN'T KNOW ANY SIGN
LANGUAGE STILL, EVEN THOUGH I

189 00:10:17:22 --:--:--:--
WAS MEETING ALL
THESE DEAF PEOPLE.

190 00:10:19:07 --:--:--:--
AND I WAS SITTING
IN THE WORKSHOP.

191 00:10:22:00 --:--:--:--
BERNARD DID THE HUNTER STORY.

192 00:10:25:15 --:--:--:--
AND I WENT, "LOOK AT THIS.
HE'S STAYING ALL IN ONE PLACE.

193 00:10:29:01 --:--:--:--
"BUT THERE'S DIFFERENT
CHARACTERS HAPPENING ALL

194 00:10:31:15 --:--:--:--
IN THIS ONE SPACE."

195 00:10:33:00 --:--:--:--
AND I UNDERSTOOD
IT SO CLEARLY.

196 00:10:34:15 --:--:--:--
IT WAS LIKE WATCHING A MOVIE.

197 00:10:37:00 --:--:--:--
I WAS LIKE, "WOW. I
UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING."

198 00:10:39:20 --:--:--:--
IT WAS EXCITING. AND THE MINUTE
IT WAS FINISHED, I STARTED

199 00:10:42:27 --:--:--:--
THINKING I WANT TO COME
UP WITH SOMETHING.

200 00:10:45:00 --:--:--:--
AND I THOUGHT, "AH, I GOT
A STORY ABOUT A MAN WHO

201 00:10:48:19 --:--:--:--
FINDS A MUMMY."

202 00:10:51:03 --:--:--:--
SO I WAS USING HIS TECHNIQUE
OF GOING BACK-AND-FORTH

203 00:10:54:00 --:--:--:--
BETWEEN THE CHARACTERS AND ALL
THAT, AND I PRACTICED IT AND I

204 00:10:56:27 --:--:--:--
CAME UP TO HIM, AND I SAID,
"MR. BRAGG, LOOK AT THIS."

205 00:11:01:18 --:--:--:--
I DID MY LITTLE THING, AND HE
GOES, "OH, YEAH, GOOD JOB."

206 00:11:04:04 --:--:--:--
AND HE WALKS AWAY,
AND THAT WAS IT.

207 00:11:06:13 --:--:--:--
BUT I REMEMBER THAT.

208 00:11:07:20 --:--:--:--
I MEAN, THAT TECHNIQUE
IS STILL SOMETHING I USE

209 00:11:10:00 --:--:--:--
TO THIS DAY, THAT'S
THE WHOLE FOUNDATION.

210 00:11:12:19 00:11:16:03
WITHOUT THAT, THINGS WOULD BE
COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FOR ME.

211 00:11:19:00 --:--:--:--
NO, THAT'S RIGHT.

212 00:11:20:08 --:--:--:--
I WAS ORAL GROWING UP,
BUT I LOVE TO READ.

213 00:11:25:03 --:--:--:--
IT'S WHAT I HAD WAS BOOKS.

214 00:11:27:07 --:--:--:--
I MEAN,
THAT'S SOMETHING I GOT FROM

215 00:11:28:21 --:--:--:--
CLARKE SCHOOL--
SOMETHING ANYWAY.

216 00:11:30:14 00:11:32:00
YAY, CLARKE!

217 00:11:34:00 --:--:--:--
BUT I LOVED COMIC BOOKS,

218 00:11:37:19 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, BECAUSE
OF THE PICTURES.

219 00:11:39:22 --:--:--:--
YOU WOULD SEE THESE
LITTLE FRAMES AND PANELS.

220 00:11:42:02 --:--:--:--
SOME WERE BIG, SOME WERE SMALL.

221 00:11:44:02 --:--:--:--
IT WAS THE EXCITING
PART WOULD GET BIG,

222 00:11:46:22 --:--:--:--
AND THEN YOU'D HAVE THE
WORDS AND THE PICTURES,

223 00:11:49:03 --:--:--:--
THE WHOLE GRAPHIC
THING ALL AT ONCE--

224 00:11:51:13 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, A GRAPHIC
LANGUAGE ALL RIGHT THERE.

225 00:11:54:00 --:--:--:--
THAT REALLY INFLUENCED A LOT.

226 00:11:56:15 --:--:--:--
"BATMAN" WAS MY FAVORITE.
I LOVED BATMAN.

227 00:11:59:28 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, VERY SIMPLE, BUT ALSO
VERY EMOTIONAL--COULD REALLY

228 00:12:03:00 --:--:--:--
CONNECT WITH HIM.

229 00:12:05:13 00:12:08:00
SO I DID A LOT OF
READING AND...

230 00:12:10:00 --:--:--:--
I COULD MAKE THIS INTO
GESTURES, YOU KNOW.

231 00:12:13:09 --:--:--:--
INSTEAD OF HAVING THE CARTOON
BALLOON WHERE THEY TALK, I COULD

232 00:12:17:21 --:--:--:--
DO THE GESTURES BECAUSE
THEY HAD THE LANGUAGE

233 00:12:20:00 --:--:--:--
THERE, YOU KNOW.

234 00:12:21:15 --:--:--:--
THEY WOULD SAY, LIKE,
"OH, NO!"

235 00:12:24:00 --:--:--:--
SO I WAS ABLE TO CONNECT ALL THE
LANGUAGE WITH THE VISUAL PART.

236 00:12:31:19 --:--:--:--
I REMEMBER AT CLARKE,
I READ A BOOK,

237 00:12:34:15 --:--:--:--
I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT
TITLE. "OF MICE AND MEN"?

238 00:12:38:00 --:--:--:--
OR "MEN AND MICE" OR WHATEVER--
"OF MICE AND MEN,"

239 00:12:41:00 --:--:--:--
YEAH, THAT'S WHAT IT IS.

240 00:12:43:00 --:--:--:--
AND I REMEMBER READING
THAT AND GOING "WOW...

241 00:12:48:00 --:--:--:--
THAT'S REALLY SOMETHING."

242 00:12:49:15 --:--:--:--
IT HAD A HUGE,
HUGE IMPACT ON ME.

243 00:12:52:15 --:--:--:--
I WAS FASCINATED, HOOKED
BY THAT FROM THEN ON.

244 00:12:55:00 --:--:--:--
I WANTED TO READ AS
MUCH AS I COULD.

245 00:12:58:00 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, POEMS
ARE VERY SHORT.

246 00:13:01:15 --:--:--:--
BACK THEN, I HAD NO PATIENCE.

247 00:13:03:23 00:13:08:00
YOU KNOW, I LIKE TO GET RIGHT TO
THE GIST OF THINGS, YOU KNOW.

248 00:13:09:15 --:--:--:--
FOR ME, POETRY IS LIKE YOU
GATHER UP ALL THIS STUFF,

249 00:13:14:01 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, LIKE MAYBE
ABOUT A ROSE, AND THEN YOU

250 00:13:16:26 --:--:--:--
PLANT THE SEED, OR YOU TAKE IT
AND YOU DISTILL IT RIGHT DOWN

251 00:13:22:15 --:--:--:--
TO ITS ESSENCE.

252 00:13:24:15 --:--:--:--
THAT'S WHAT POETRY IS FOR ME.

253 00:13:27:19 --:--:--:--
SO, I STARTED WRITING
FOR MYSELF AND STARTED

254 00:13:30:04 --:--:--:--
TO EXPERIMENT--THIS
WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL.

255 00:13:31:15 --:--:--:--
I TOOK A POETRY CLASS,
AND I STARTED WRITING

256 00:13:34:11 --:--:--:--
AND BORROWING DIFFERENT TYPES
OF STYLES--e.e. cummings,

257 00:13:40:00 --:--:--:--
PLAYING WITH WORDS.

258 00:13:41:18 --:--:--:--
IN COLLEGE, I GOT MUCH MORE,
YOU KNOW, DEEPLY INVOLVED.

259 00:13:44:15 00:13:46:15
THAT'S WHERE IT STARTED.

260 00:13:50:26 --:--:--:--
TO BE HONEST, WHAT I SAID IN
CLASS AND THE TEACHER WOULD BE

261 00:13:54:20 --:--:--:--
EXPLAINING STUFF, I'D MISS
AN AWFUL LOT OF IT,

262 00:13:57:00 --:--:--:--
AND SOMETIMES I'D JUST COME UP
WITH MY OWN TECHNIQUE OR I'D ASK

263 00:13:59:15 --:--:--:--
ANOTHER STUDENT,
"LET ME SEE YOURS"

264 00:14:02:00 --:--:--:--
OR "LET ME SEE YOURS."

265 00:14:03:17 --:--:--:--
AND I REMEMBER IN THIS ONE
CLASS, WE WERE SUPPOSED TO

266 00:14:05:26 --:--:--:--
WRITE SOMETHING AND THEN
GET UP AND SPEAK IT.

267 00:14:09:15 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, WROTE THIS THING,
BUT THEN HOW DO I SPEAK IT?

268 00:14:14:15 --:--:--:--
SO I GAVE IT TO THE TEACHER
OR HAVE ANOTHER STUDENT READ

269 00:14:17:15 --:--:--:--
IT FOR ME.

270 00:14:19:00 --:--:--:--
AND SOMETIMES THEY WOULD,
YOU KNOW, KIND OF LIKE ASK

271 00:14:21:00 --:--:--:--
ME QUESTIONS AND STUFF.

272 00:14:22:15 --:--:--:--
AND I JUST KINDA FELT LIKE,
I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW.

273 00:14:25:15 --:--:--:--
I WASN'T GETTING A LOT
OF FEEDBACK ON IT.

274 00:14:28:00 --:--:--:--
I DIDN'T ABLE TO SEE IMAGES.

275 00:14:30:23 --:--:--:--
I DIDN'T SEE ANY RHYTHM
IN THE LINES OR ANYTHING.

276 00:14:33:15 --:--:--:--
I MEAN, PEOPLE WOULD GIVE ME
A THUMBS UP, AND THAT WOULD

277 00:14:35:25 --:--:--:--
BE ABOUT IT.

278 00:14:37:13 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, THEY'D GO
"YEP," THUMBS UP.

279 00:14:39:18 --:--:--:--
WELL, THAT WASN'T
SATISFYING TO ME.

280 00:14:42:00 --:--:--:--
SO I STARTED PLAYING
WITH THE WORDS AGAIN,

281 00:14:45:04 --:--:--:--
AND THEY SAID, "YOU HAVE A
7-COUNT OR AN 8-COUNT" OR...

282 00:14:48:20 --:--:--:--
SO, OK.

283 00:14:50:05 --:--:--:--
SO I'D STRUGGLE WITH THIS
AND TRY TO FIGURE IT OUT,

284 00:14:52:17 --:--:--:--
AND I ENJOYED THE CHALLENGE.

285 00:14:55:03 --:--:--:--
AND THEN I'D HAVE THIS
PRODUCT, AND YOU KNOW THEY'D

286 00:14:57:18 --:--:--:--
SAY, "IT'S NICE."

287 00:14:58:25 00:15:02:08
BUT THEN WHEN I WENT TO
COLLEGE, EVERYTHING CHANGED.

288 00:15:04:15 --:--:--:--
NOPE, I NEVER TOOK A POETRY
COURSE AT RIT OR NTID AT ALL.

289 00:15:09:23 00:15:12:00
YOU KNOW, I KEPT MY WRITINGS.

290 00:15:16:00 --:--:--:--
IN COLLEGE, MY FIRST
INTEREST WAS ABOUT LEARNING

291 00:15:18:00 --:--:--:--
SIGN LANGUAGE.

292 00:15:19:15 --:--:--:--
I MEAN, THAT WAS SO
FASCINATING TO ME,

293 00:15:21:22 --:--:--:--
GETTING INVOLVED IN THEATER
AND ACTING, PLUS I WAS INVOLVED

294 00:15:24:15 --:--:--:--
IN A RELATIONSHIP.

295 00:15:26:19 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, ANOTHER DEAF
PERSON WHO WAS MY FIRST TIME

296 00:15:30:17 --:--:--:--
WITH DEAF CULTURE BEING
EXPOSED TO THAT, BANGING

297 00:15:33:27 --:--:--:--
ON THE TABLE AND GETTING
PEOPLE'S ATTENTION.

298 00:15:36:22 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, THE CULTURAL NORMS
FOR DEAF PEOPLE AND LEARNING

299 00:15:39:19 --:--:--:--
THOSE THINGS AND THEN
NAVIGATING MY WAY

300 00:15:42:02 --:--:--:--
THROUGH THAT.

301 00:15:43:15 --:--:--:--
I NEVER DID ANYTHING LIKE
LOOK DOWN ON IT OR GO, "OH,

302 00:15:46:15 --:--:--:--
WHY ARE YOU DOING
IT THAT WAY."

303 00:15:48:00 --:--:--:--
TO ME, IT WAS A GREAT
LEARNING EXPERIENCE.

304 00:15:51:00 --:--:--:--
AND, YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH
I WAS ORAL AND LEARNING

305 00:15:53:15 --:--:--:--
SIGN LANGUAGE,
I COULD SEE THINGS.

306 00:15:57:01 --:--:--:--
LIKE, I REMEMBER HOW PEOPLE
LOOKED AT ME AND STUFF,

307 00:15:59:26 --:--:--:--
AND I DON'T BLAME THEM.

308 00:16:01:10 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, I WAS JUST
PRETTY CLUELESS.

309 00:16:03:10 --:--:--:--
NOW I LOOK BACK AND I GO, "OH,
I UNDERSTAND THE CULTURE SO MUCH

310 00:16:07:00 00:16:08:15
BETTER NOW."

311 00:16:11:15 --:--:--:--
MY PARENTS ACCEPTED
IT RIGHT AWAY.

312 00:16:14:00 --:--:--:--
I WOULD SIGN AT HOME AND THEY
WOULD GO, "OH, WELL, YOU'RE

313 00:16:16:00 --:--:--:--
LEARNING SIGNS."

314 00:16:17:15 --:--:--:--
OR THEY'D GO, "WELL,
THERE'S A NEW SIGN."

315 00:16:20:10 --:--:--:--
PLUS MY MOM SAYS,
"WOW, YOUR WRITING HAS

316 00:16:22:04 --:--:--:--
IMPROVED SO MUCH."

317 00:16:23:18 --:--:--:--
YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. MY
WRITING GOT WAY BETTER!

318 00:16:27:28 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, BECAUSE I WAS AWARE
OF THE LANGUAGE, AND I STARTED

319 00:16:31:24 --:--:--:--
LEARNING ABOUT THE GRAMMAR AND
GOING, "OH, SO THIS IS HOW

320 00:16:34:19 --:--:--:--
ENGLISH WORKS."

321 00:16:36:14 --:--:--:--
AND THAT HELPED ME TO BE ABLE TO
CLARIFY, YOU KNOW, HOW WORD

322 00:16:41:08 --:--:--:--
ENDINGS OR GRAMMAR OR SYNTAX
OR ALL THOSE THINGS LIKE--

323 00:16:46:13 --:--:--:--
BEFORE THEY JUST, YOU KNOW,
HIT ME WITH STUFF.

324 00:16:48:29 --:--:--:--
NOW I REALLY UNDERSTOOD IT,
AND THAT REALLY HELP MY WRITING

325 00:16:52:00 --:--:--:--
A GREAT DEAL.

326 00:16:53:12 00:16:55:00
PEOPLE WERE SHOCKED BY THAT.

327 00:16:57:00 --:--:--:--
PROOF IS THERE, AND THIS IS
WHAT HELPS. YOU KNOW, THE POWER

328 00:17:01:16 00:17:04:05
WAS THERE ALL ALONG.

329 00:17:06:25 --:--:--:--
PEOPLE OFTEN ASK THAT QUESTION,
OR OFTEN I ASK MYSELF...

330 00:17:13:10 --:--:--:--
"YOU KNOW, WHAT'S PRESET?

331 00:17:16:00 --:--:--:--
"WHERE'S THE SPRINGBOARD?

332 00:17:18:16 00:17:20:15
WHAT'S THE JUMPING-OFF PLACE?"

333 00:17:22:00 --:--:--:--
I THINK ALLEN GINSBERG WAS A
JUMPING-OFF PLACE, BUT WHAT

334 00:17:25:19 --:--:--:--
WAS THE LADDER TO GET UP
TO THAT SPRINGBOARD?

335 00:17:30:09 --:--:--:--
IN THE FIRST TWO
YEARS OF COLLEGE, I WAS

336 00:17:32:22 --:--:--:--
INVOLVED WITH A LOT
OF THEATER, VERY

337 00:17:37:00 --:--:--:--
HEAVILY INVOLVED.

338 00:17:39:14 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, THAT LAID THE
GROUNDWORK FOR--YOU KNOW,

339 00:17:41:21 --:--:--:--
WE'D GO TO PARTIES
AND WE'D SAY,
"WHY DON'T WE HAVE

340 00:17:43:28 00:17:45:15
A PERFORMANCE PARTY?"

341 00:17:50:00 --:--:--:--
DENNIS BASINSKI AND
WARREN MILLER AND MIKE HOLMAN--

342 00:17:57:15 --:--:--:--
WE'D ALL GET TOGETHER.

343 00:18:01:07 --:--:--:--
IT WASN'T JUST ME
CREATING SOMETHING.

344 00:18:04:02 --:--:--:--
WE'D HAVE LIKE A
HEAVY METAL COMIC BOOK

345 00:18:06:29 --:--:--:--
BECAUSE IT WAS VERY VISUAL, AND
THEY'D HAVE THIS STORY THERE.

346 00:18:11:21 --:--:--:--
SOME GUY RIDING ON A BIRD
OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT

347 00:18:15:25 --:--:--:--
AND LOOKING FOR FOOD OR ON A
BUS, BUT THEN THE BUS GOES

348 00:18:22:03 --:--:--:--
UNDERWATER OR UNDERGROUND OR
SOME--JUST THESE CRAZY STORIES.

349 00:18:26:26 --:--:--:--
SO WE'D HAVE A PARTY DOWN IN
THE CELLAR, AND WE WOULD, YOU

350 00:18:30:26 --:--:--:--
KNOW, BE DOING ALL THIS STUFF
AND IT WAS GREAT FUN, AND ALL

351 00:18:33:11 --:--:--:--
OF A SUDDEN IT STARTED
GETTING REALLY POPULAR

352 00:18:35:09 --:--:--:--
AND MORE AND MORE
PEOPLE WERE COMING.

353 00:18:36:17 --:--:--:--
WE HAD TO WORK ON HOW ARE WE
GONNA DO THESE TRANSLATIONS

354 00:18:39:20 --:--:--:--
AND YOU KNOW COMING UP WITH
NEW IDEAS AND "REHEARSING"

355 00:18:44:19 --:--:--:--
THIS STUFF FOR THE AUDIENCE
BECAUSE THINGS WERE GETTING

356 00:18:46:20 00:18:48:05
REALLY POPULAR.

357 00:18:50:15 --:--:--:--
AND THEN, WE HAD A MEETING.

358 00:18:55:20 --:--:--:--
LET ME SEE...
LET ME GO BACK.

359 00:18:57:00 --:--:--:--
JIM? NO, YEAH,
IT WAS JIM.

360 00:19:00:00 00:19:04:15
WE HAD THIS ONE MEETING,
ONE OF THE LAST PARTIES.

361 00:19:10:15 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, THEY WERE JUST
SILLY SHOWS AT THAT TIME.

362 00:19:13:15 --:--:--:--
THERE WASN'T ANYTHING
REAL SERIOUS HAPPENING.

363 00:19:15:15 --:--:--:--
IT WAS JUST FOR FUN.

364 00:19:17:00 --:--:--:--
AND HE CAME UP TO ME AND
HE SAID, "THIS IS REALLY

365 00:19:18:23 --:--:--:--
GOOD STUFF. THIS IS
GREAT POETRY."

366 00:19:21:11 00:19:25:15
AND I WAS LIKE, "EXCUSE ME?
BUT, UH, WHAT THE..."

367 00:19:30:15 --:--:--:--
I JUST KIND OF LOOKED AT
HIM AND WENT, "NAH,

368 00:19:32:15 --:--:--:--
THIS GUY'S DRUNK."

369 00:19:35:00 --:--:--:--
SO I WENT ON, AND I'M TALKING
TO MY FRIENDS, BUT HE KEPT

370 00:19:37:27 --:--:--:--
COMING UP.

371 00:19:39:17 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, I'D BE WALKING ALONG
ON--OH, WHAT DO THEY CALL IT

372 00:19:42:29 --:--:--:--
OVER AT RIT,
THE QUARTER-MILE?

373 00:19:44:26 --:--:--:--
IS THAT STILL THERE?

374 00:19:46:19 --:--:--:--
YEAH, I'D BE WALKING ALONG,
AND ALL OF A SUDDEN HE'D BE

375 00:19:51:00 --:--:--:--
RIGHT THERE, AND
I COULDN'T GET PAST HIM.

376 00:19:53:10 --:--:--:--
AND I'D BE LIKE, "AAH!"

377 00:19:55:00 --:--:--:--
I FELT LIKE TRAPPED IN
HIS WEB OR SOMETHING.

378 00:19:58:15 --:--:--:--
SO HE'D GO, "YOU KNOW,
THERE'S THIS, THERE'S THAT."

379 00:20:01:00 --:--:--:--
HE'D ASK ME ALL
THESE QUESTIONS.

380 00:20:02:25 --:--:--:--
AND I STARTED TO LOOK AT
THINGS IN A DIFFERENT WAY.

381 00:20:06:00 --:--:--:--
AND I WENT, "YOU KNOW,
THIS GUY ISN'T DRUNK."

382 00:20:10:00 --:--:--:--
SO I STARTED PAYING ATTENTION
TO HIM AND LISTENING TO HIM,

383 00:20:13:11 --:--:--:--
AND HE SAID, "YOU KNOW,
YOU GOTTA COME AND SEE THIS

384 00:20:16:07 --:--:--:--
GREAT POET. HIS NAME IS
ALLEN GINSBERG."

385 00:20:19:13 --:--:--:--
AND I REMEMBER THE
NAME FROM HIGH SCHOOL.

386 00:20:21:10 --:--:--:--
WE TALKED ABOUT HIM
IN CLASS A LITTLE BIT.

387 00:20:23:00 --:--:--:--
AND I SAID, "HE'S
GONNA BE HERE?"

388 00:20:24:10 00:20:26:00
AND HE SAID, "YEAH."

389 00:20:30:00 --:--:--:--
ROBERT PANARA IS
GONNA BE HOSTING HIM.

390 00:20:32:26 --:--:--:--
IT'S GONNA BE A TRANSLATION
COURSE OR SOMETHING,

391 00:20:36:11 --:--:--:--
AND PATRICK GRAYBILL
WILL BE THERE.

392 00:20:38:07 --:--:--:--
AND I THOUGHT, "THE
TWO OF THEM MEETING.

393 00:20:40:02 --:--:--:--
THIS WILL BE GREAT.
I HAVE TO DO THIS."

394 00:20:43:00 --:--:--:--
I CHANGED MY PLANS.

395 00:20:45:26 --:--:--:--
WHATEVER I WAS DOING
THAT DAY, I DID A 360.

396 00:20:52:03 --:--:--:--
SO I WENT TO THIS, AND I SAT
THERE AND I WATCHED AND I

397 00:20:54:22 --:--:--:--
REMEMBER THERE WERE TABLES
OVER HERE AND TABLES OVER HERE,

398 00:20:58:06 --:--:--:--
AND OVER AT THIS TABLE
THEY HAD A LITTLE BOWL

399 00:21:01:13 --:--:--:--
OF INCENSE BURNING.

400 00:21:04:28 --:--:--:--
HE HAD A LITTLE STICK THAT
HE WAS TAPPING IT WITH.

401 00:21:09:13 --:--:--:--
AND AT FIRST, HE WAS KIND
OF TAPPING IT IN RHYTHM.

402 00:21:11:28 --:--:--:--
I THOUGHT, "IS THAT SOMETHING
YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO UNDERSTAND?"

403 00:21:15:06 --:--:--:--
BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW.
THIS WAS 20 YEARS AGO.

404 00:21:16:28 --:--:--:--
I MEAN THEY HAD VIDEOTAPE
TO PROVE HE JUST SAT THERE

405 00:21:19:18 --:--:--:--
TAPPING THIS THING.

406 00:21:21:15 00:21:24:02
AND I THOUGHT, "IS
THAT KIND OF MUSIC?"

407 00:21:26:19 --:--:--:--
IS THAT THE FIRST POEM?

408 00:21:29:00 --:--:--:--
WHAT? OH!

409 00:21:30:25 --:--:--:--
I DON'T KNOW. WAS HE JUST
MAKING IT UP OR WHAT?

410 00:21:35:15 --:--:--:--
BUT YEAH, HE WAS USING
THAT AS RHYTHM.

411 00:21:40:13 --:--:--:--
AND I WAS FASCINATED.

412 00:21:42:01 --:--:--:--
I WENT, IN MY MIND,
"THAT'S NOT LANGUAGE."

413 00:21:45:03 --:--:--:--
THEN I THOUGHT TWICE.
MAYBE POETRY DOESN'T HAVE TO

414 00:21:48:00 --:--:--:--
BE LANGUAGE.

415 00:21:51:15 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, MAYBE YOU
JUST HAVE THE WORD.

416 00:21:53:16 --:--:--:--
THE WORD BECOMES POETRY.

417 00:21:55:09 --:--:--:--
OR IS IT THE WORD THAT'S PART
OF THE THING THAT BECOMES

418 00:21:57:20 --:--:--:--
POETRY, AND YOU JUST PLACE
IT IN DIFFERENT WAYS?

419 00:22:04:00 --:--:--:--
THE MOST BASIC FOUNDATION,
SIMPLE THING.

420 00:22:07:29 --:--:--:--
HE JUST STARTED WITH TAPPING.

421 00:22:13:12 --:--:--:--
AND THAT'S HOW HE BROUGHT
UP HOWELL AND THE OTHER

422 00:22:16:15 --:--:--:--
"HYDROGEN JUKEBOX."

423 00:22:18:00 --:--:--:--
AND HE ASKED PEOPLE, "WHAT
DO YOU THINK THAT MEANS?"

424 00:22:21:00 --:--:--:--
I REMEMBER PATRICK GRAYBILL
CAME UP WITH SOMETHING,

425 00:22:25:25 --:--:--:--
A SIGN FOR "HYDROGEN JUKEBOX,"
WHERE HE SAID, "YOU HAVE THIS

426 00:22:28:15 --:--:--:--
"MUSIC MACHINE.

427 00:22:31:03 --:--:--:--
YOU PUT IN A COIN,
AND YOUR MIND BLOWS."

428 00:22:34:02 --:--:--:--
AND I WAS LIKE, "OH, MY GOD."

429 00:22:37:00 --:--:--:--
I WAS BLOWN AWAY BY THAT.

430 00:22:39:08 --:--:--:--
I JUST WENT, "WOW!"

431 00:22:42:22 --:--:--:--
AND THEN THE AFTERSHOCK.
HE SAID, "NOW DID YOU SEE THAT?

432 00:22:47:10 --:--:--:--
"THERE WERE NO
WORDS WRITTEN THERE.

433 00:22:49:14 --:--:--:--
"IT WAS THE CONCEPT.

434 00:22:51:05 --:--:--:--
"IT WAS A CLEAR PICTURE.

435 00:22:53:05 --:--:--:--
"IT'S THE RHYTHM, THE CONCEPT.

436 00:22:55:04 --:--:--:--
THE LANGUAGE DOESN'T MATTER
IF THE PICTURE IS CLEAR."

437 00:23:00:23 --:--:--:--
AND THEN FOR ME, THAT'S WHAT
POETRY IS, AND I WAS LIKE,

438 00:23:03:15 --:--:--:--
"OH, MY GOD.

439 00:23:04:29 --:--:--:--
I SPENT ALL THIS TIME WRITING
STUFF AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT

440 00:23:07:14 --:--:--:--
HOW TO TRANSLATE IT
INTO SIGN LANGUAGE,

441 00:23:09:20 00:23:11:08
AND IT WASN'T WORKING.

442 00:23:16:15 --:--:--:--
I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT
MY HAND BECOMES THE PAPER.

443 00:23:21:00 --:--:--:--
MY HANDS BECOME
THE POETIC METER.

444 00:23:24:00 --:--:--:--
THE ENGLISH IS
WRITTEN ON MY HANDS.

445 00:23:27:15 --:--:--:--
I'VE BEEN DOING IT
COMPLETELY WRONG.

446 00:23:30:00 --:--:--:--
THAT'S WHY ENDED UP AFTER
THAT LETTING GO OF IT--

447 00:23:33:00 --:--:--:--
THE TAPPING, PLUS PATRICK
GRAYBILL'S MODELING, ALL THIS

448 00:23:37:03 --:--:--:--
STUFF--I LET GO OF ALL
MY OLD WAYS, AND I WENT,
"YES, THIS IS RIGHT.

449 00:23:42:15 --:--:--:--
AND THEN WHEN WE GOT TOGETHER
FOR THESE PARTIES AND WE LOOKED

450 00:23:44:15 --:--:--:--
AT THE MAGAZINE AND HOW I
LIKE PICKED UP ON THAT

451 00:23:48:15 --:--:--:--
AND BECAME THAT,
THAT'S WHAT PATRICK DID.

452 00:23:52:01 --:--:--:--
HE BECAME IT.

453 00:23:54:00 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, THE PRINCIPAL
WAS EXACTLY THE SAME.

454 00:23:57:00 --:--:--:--
HE WAS MAKING THAT VISUAL
MOVIE, AND I JUST WENT "WOW!"

455 00:24:01:20 00:24:03:19
IT DID. IT BLEW ME AWAY.

456 00:24:05:25 --:--:--:--
IF YOU SEE THAT VIDEO, YOU CAN
SEE ME IN THE AUDIENCE ACTING

457 00:24:09:00 00:24:10:15
LIKE THIS...

458 00:24:17:00 --:--:--:--
I REMEMBER THAT
FEELING SO CLEARLY.

459 00:24:19:15 00:24:22:07
IT BLEW ME AWAY. I'LL
NEVER FORGET THAT DAY.

460 00:24:26:00 --:--:--:--
I WONDER IF EVERYONE IN
THE ROOM FELT THAT MOMENT,

461 00:24:28:15 --:--:--:--
INCLUDING THE INTERPRETER.

462 00:24:30:05 00:24:32:00
KIP WEBSTER WAS THERE.

463 00:24:41:15 --:--:--:--
KIP WAS REALLY GOOD,
VERY SKILLED.

464 00:24:44:25 --:--:--:--
BUT I GUESS THE POINT WAS
THE PERFORMANCE, YOU KNOW,

465 00:24:48:27 --:--:--:--
WAS JUST BEAUTIFUL,
BEING IN A VISUAL WAY,

466 00:24:53:05 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, HAVING TO LET GO
JUST COMPLETELY LET GO, YEAH.

467 00:24:58:09 --:--:--:--
AFTER THAT MEETING, JIM
CAME UP TO ME RIGHT AWAY.

468 00:25:02:12 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, JIM CAME UP TO ME.

469 00:25:04:01 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, HE'S A VERY
STRATEGIC PERSON.

470 00:25:07:15 --:--:--:--
HE GOES STEP-BY-STEP, AND I
KNEW THAT HE HAD SOME KIND

471 00:25:10:29 --:--:--:--
OF MASTER PLAN.

472 00:25:12:25 --:--:--:--
HE HAS ONE.

473 00:25:14:26 --:--:--:--
SO HE MAY DENY IT,
BUT HE HAD ONE.

474 00:25:20:00 --:--:--:--
HE CAME UP TO ME AND HE SAID,
"SO WHAT DID YOU THINK?"

475 00:25:22:25 --:--:--:--
AND I WAS LIKE, "WOW,
THAT WAS AMAZING."

476 00:25:25:07 --:--:--:--
HE SAID, "WELL, HERE'S
THE BOOK OF HIS WORK.

477 00:25:30:15 --:--:--:--
AND IT'S CALLED 'BIRDBRAIN.'"

478 00:25:32:15 --:--:--:--
AND SO THIS WAS MY FIRST
OPPORTUNITY TO TRY AND LET GO

479 00:25:37:12 --:--:--:--
AND SEE WHAT I
COULD DO WITH IT.

480 00:25:38:24 --:--:--:--
OH, IT WAS SO MUCH FUN.

481 00:25:41:10 00:25:44:22
I REMEMBER PLAYING WITH
THINGS LIKE--OH, WHAT WAS IT?

482 00:25:48:15 --:--:--:--
BIRDBRAIN, THE OLD BIRD
WALKING THROUGH THE DARK,

483 00:25:52:29 --:--:--:--
AND THEN THE BIRD... SEES
SOMETHING, AND HE TAKES A BITE

484 00:25:58:08 --:--:--:--
OUT OF IT.

485 00:26:01:15 --:--:--:--
I MEAN,
AND IT SAYS IT IN THE WORDS,

486 00:26:04:20 --:--:--:--
BUT I HAD THE FREEDOM TO
START PLAYING WITH IT.

487 00:26:08:00 --:--:--:--
AND I REMEMBER THE MOVIE
TECHNIQUES, THE HAND SHAPES--

488 00:26:11:19 --:--:--:--
WELL, I HADN'T DONE
THE HAND SHAPES YET.

489 00:26:13:25 --:--:--:--
THIS WAS ALL JUST PHYSICAL, THE
BODY, YOU KNOW, STILL V.V.,

490 00:26:18:17 --:--:--:--
THAT VISUAL VERNACULAR.
IT WAS STILL A POEM.

491 00:26:20:15 00:26:23:00
PURE VISUAL VERNACULAR.

492 00:26:27:25 --:--:--:--
WHEN I DID THAT FIRST THING AT
NAD, I WAS 15, AND THEN I WENT

493 00:26:31:27 --:--:--:--
TO THIS POETRY WORKSHOP AND
I TOOK THE TECHNIQUES THAT I

494 00:26:34:18 00:26:37:00
HAD LEARNED FROM THEM
AND TRIED TO APPLY THEM.

495 00:26:40:00 --:--:--:--
OH, YEAH, I DID
ONE EARLY WORK.

496 00:26:44:00 --:--:--:--
I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S
A VIDEO OF IT, BUT IT WAS

497 00:26:46:00 00:26:47:15
VERY SIMPLE.

498 00:26:49:15 --:--:--:--
IT WAS ABOUT THIS
BEATING AND DIRTY AIR

499 00:26:52:15 --:--:--:--
AND SMELLING SOMETHING AND THE
DARKNESS AND FILTHY POLLUTION

500 00:26:58:15 --:--:--:--
AND COUGHING AND THEN SEEING
THIS GREEN GLOWING THING,

501 00:27:02:15 --:--:--:--
AND ALL OF A SUDDEN IT BECAME
ALIVE AND WRAPPED AROUND ME

502 00:27:08:15 --:--:--:--
AND PULSATED AND THEN CAME
OUT INTO THIS GREAT BEAST,

503 00:27:15:16 --:--:--:--
THIS DRAGON THAT FLEW AWAY.

504 00:27:19:00 --:--:--:--
IT HAD A NEW LIFE.

505 00:27:20:15 00:27:24:00
SO THAT WAS THE VERY
FIRST POEM THAT I DID.

506 00:27:26:15 --:--:--:--
THIS WAS RIGHT AFTER
THE GINSBERG WORKSHOP...

507 00:27:31:00 --:--:--:--
AND JIM SAW THAT.

508 00:27:32:15 --:--:--:--
HE SAID,
"YOU GOTTA SHOW THAT TO

509 00:27:34:00 --:--:--:--
THE HEARING COMMUNITY."

510 00:27:35:15 --:--:--:--
AND I WAS LIKE,
"I DON'T KNOW."

511 00:27:37:00 --:--:--:--
HE SAID, "NO, NO,
YOU GOTTA DO THAT."

512 00:27:39:00 --:--:--:--
AND HE GAVE ME THE "BIRDBRAIN"
BOOK, AND I WOULD BUILD

513 00:27:43:13 --:--:--:--
OFF OF THAT.

514 00:27:44:28 --:--:--:--
BUT I KEPT THINKING, I KEPT
GOING BACK TO GINSBERG.

515 00:27:47:26 --:--:--:--
"GIVE ME SOME OTHERS.

516 00:27:49:12 --:--:--:--
I MEAN ISN'T THERE ANY OTHERS?"

517 00:27:51:01 --:--:--:--
AND HE GOES, "THERE'S
THIS WHOLE GROUP."

518 00:27:52:20 --:--:--:--
I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT THIS,
THESE BEAT POETS.

519 00:27:57:02 --:--:--:--
I FOUND THIS ONE CARUSO THAT I
JUST LOVED. HE WAS VERY DIRECT

520 00:28:00:27 00:28:02:15
AND MACHO AND...

521 00:28:06:15 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, I WAS YOUNG AND
THE POET WAS YOUNG. WITH THE

522 00:28:10:23 --:--:--:--
OLDER GUYS, I COULDN'T
REALLY RELATE TO,

523 00:28:12:12 --:--:--:--
BUT THE YOUNG ONES I COULD.

524 00:28:14:15 00:28:16:00
WELL, YOU KNOW,
I WAS YOUNG.

525 00:28:18:15 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, I WANTED THAT KIND
OF LIKE TOUGH KIND OF THING

526 00:28:22:12 --:--:--:--
AND SHOW THAT TO
THE ROCHESTERIANS.

527 00:28:24:15 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE
KIND OF STUFF THAT I WANT
TO DO AND DO ALL

528 00:28:27:19 --:--:--:--
THESE DIFFERENT TRANSLATIONS
AND, YOU KNOW, WORK A LITTLE

529 00:28:30:26 --:--:--:--
BIT OFF OF THAT AND
DEVELOP MY OWN WORK AND...

530 00:28:35:15 --:--:--:--
YEAH, AND THEN THE CELLAR.

531 00:28:37:15 --:--:--:--
YEAH. WE DECIDED TO SET UP
A BIRDBRAIN SOCIETY AT NTID.

532 00:28:43:00 --:--:--:--
THEY HAD THIS BAR
THAT WAS VERY POPULAR.

533 00:28:48:06 --:--:--:--
IT WAS WEDNESDAY NIGHTS I
THINK WHERE PEOPLE WOULD GO

534 00:28:50:23 --:--:--:--
DOWN THERE, ALL THESE DEAF
PEOPLE WOULD DO LIKE THIS OPEN

535 00:28:53:17 --:--:--:--
MIC KIND OF THING.

536 00:28:55:10 --:--:--:--
WE DID POETRY.

537 00:28:58:14 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER WE DID
ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT ACTS.

538 00:29:01:07 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, WE HAD THE HEAVY
METAL ACT THAT WAS PRIVATE.

539 00:29:04:05 --:--:--:--
AND WE TOOK IT FROM THERE AND
OPENED IT UP TO THE PUBLIC.

540 00:29:09:00 --:--:--:--
AND IT WAS GREAT...

541 00:29:12:27 --:--:--:--
BUT IT WAS SHORT-LIVED.

542 00:29:15:04 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, IT GOT
RUINED BY "DYNASTY."

543 00:29:17:14 00:29:20:07
THAT TV PROGRAM KILLED IT.

544 00:29:25:15 --:--:--:--
THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME
THERE WAS CAPTIONS ON TV.

545 00:29:28:06 --:--:--:--
SO EVERYBODY THAT WAS
COMING TO THE CELLAR LEFT.

546 00:29:31:15 00:29:35:00
IT WAS DEAD. I MEAN,
SCREW THEM. HA HA!

547 00:29:45:15 00:29:47:00
NO.

548 00:29:52:00 00:29:55:22
WE DID ADVERTISE THE
POETRY SOME, YES.

549 00:29:59:15 --:--:--:--
WE DIDN'T CALL IT POETRY.
IT WAS PERFORMANCE ART.

550 00:30:03:05 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, WE WERE SAYING, "NO,
THIS IS PERFORMANCE ART."

551 00:30:06:26 --:--:--:--
AND PEOPLE WOULD SAY
POETRY AND STORYTELLING,

552 00:30:09:15 --:--:--:--
BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE
STILL KIND OF "WE DON'T KNOW

553 00:30:12:00 --:--:--:--
ABOUT THAT."

554 00:30:14:00 --:--:--:--
WITH THE TECHNIQUES, WE KNOW
THAT THERE WERE SOME, YOU KNOW

555 00:30:17:16 --:--:--:--
THE HAND SHAPES, ABC STORIES.
WE KNEW ABOUT THAT.

556 00:30:20:15 --:--:--:--
THAT'S NOT OUR FOCUS.
YOU KNOW, WE WERE JUST PLAYING

557 00:30:24:15 --:--:--:--
AND ENJOYING OURSELVES.

558 00:30:26:00 --:--:--:--
WE WEREN'T THINKING
ABOUT LABELING.

559 00:30:30:00 --:--:--:--
THE BIRDBRAIN SOCIETY--
WE HAD FLYERS MADE UP.

560 00:30:34:15 --:--:--:--
I STILL HAVE A POSTER AT HOME,
AND I SAVED ALL THAT STUFF.

561 00:30:38:08 --:--:--:--
I SAVED EVERYTHING.

562 00:30:40:15 --:--:--:--
OH, YEAH, WE HAVE PICTURES,
NOT OF THE GROUP

563 00:30:43:22 --:--:--:--
BUT OF THE ADVERTISEMENTS,
WHO WERE THE PEOPLE

564 00:30:45:09 --:--:--:--
INVOLVED IN ALL THAT.

565 00:30:47:27 --:--:--:--
WRITERS & BOOKS, WHERE THEY
HAD HEARING PEOPLE DOING THEIR

566 00:30:51:00 00:30:52:15
THING, TOO.

567 00:30:57:00 --:--:--:--
WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY VIDEOS
TAPING IN THE CELLAR.

568 00:31:00:00 00:31:02:16
YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T KNOW.
WE DIDN'T KNOW.

569 00:31:04:15 --:--:--:--
NO, NO PICTURES.

570 00:31:08:16 --:--:--:--
SO, THAT WAS THE BEGINNING
OF THE PROCESS, AND JIM AGAIN

571 00:31:11:17 --:--:--:--
CAME UP TO ME AND SAID,
"YOU GOTTA GO TO

572 00:31:13:19 --:--:--:--
"THE COMMUNITY, THE
HEARING COMMUNITY.

573 00:31:15:25 --:--:--:--
THERE'S A PLACE CALLED
WRITERS & BOOKS."

574 00:31:18:29 --:--:--:--
I PERFORMED WITH
EMMETT THE FIRST TIME.

575 00:31:23:04 --:--:--:--
HE WAS A HEARING PERSON,
YOU KNOW, HEARING POET.

576 00:31:28:25 00:31:32:23
HE WAS FROM GENESEE
VALLEY SOCIETY.

577 00:31:37:15 --:--:--:--
THERE'S NOBODY SIGNING.

578 00:31:39:06 --:--:--:--
WHO'S GONNA BE ABLE
TO VOICE MY SIGNING?

579 00:31:41:04 --:--:--:--
AND THAT'S WHERE I MET KENNY.

580 00:31:43:06 --:--:--:--
KENNY HAD BEEN IN THE CELLAR.
YOU KNOW, HE SAT THERE.

581 00:31:46:12 --:--:--:--
WE HAD A FEW DRINKS TOGETHER,
AND I GO, "WHO'S THAT

582 00:31:48:14 --:--:--:--
STRANGE GUY WITH THE
BEARD OVER THERE?"

583 00:31:50:00 --:--:--:--
'CAUSE HE WAS THE ONLY ONE
WITH A BEARD AT THAT TIME.

584 00:31:52:00 --:--:--:--
EVERYBODY WAS--
IT WAS THE EIGHTIES.

585 00:31:53:20 --:--:--:--
NOBODY HAD A BEARD IN THE
EIGHTIES EXCEPT FOR HIM.

586 00:31:57:27 --:--:--:--
SO HE KIND OF STOOD OUT.

587 00:31:59:18 --:--:--:--
SO WE NEVER REALLY
TALKED OR ANYTHING.

588 00:32:02:23 --:--:--:--
JUST REMEMBER HIM BEING
THERE AND KIND OF OBSERVING.

589 00:32:06:06 --:--:--:--
SO WE KIND OF LIKE SEE
EACH OTHER, YOU KNOW, LIKE
TWO LITTLE DOGS SNIFFING EACH

590 00:32:09:29 00:32:11:25
OTHER OUT KIND OF THING.

591 00:32:13:15 --:--:--:--
AND THEN JIM SAID, "NO,
I'VE GOT A FRIEND THERE.

592 00:32:16:11 --:--:--:--
HE'LL GET IN TOUCH WITH YOU."

593 00:32:19:03 --:--:--:--
I DIDN'T CATCH HIS
NAME OR ANYTHING.

594 00:32:21:27 --:--:--:--
BUT I REMEMBER IT WAS
TIME TO GO OUT,

595 00:32:25:00 --:--:--:--
AND THERE'S THE
GUY WITH THE BEARD!

596 00:32:29:15 --:--:--:--
"YOU'RE THAT GUY?"
AND I WENT, "OH, YEAH."

597 00:32:31:15 --:--:--:--
OF COURSE, HE'D BE ONE
OF JIM'S FRIENDS, AND JIM

598 00:32:34:00 --:--:--:--
KNOWS BEST.

599 00:32:36:29 --:--:--:--
SO I MET KENNY.

600 00:32:38:15 --:--:--:--
I SAID, "HAVE YOU EVER
BEEN AN INTERPRETER?"

601 00:32:40:00 --:--:--:--
AND "NO."

602 00:32:42:00 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW I KNEW ALL THE
INTERPRETERS WHO WERE INVOLVED

603 00:32:45:00 --:--:--:--
AND I'D NEVER SEEN HIM BEFORE,
BUT I INVITED HIM INTO THE HOUSE

604 00:32:48:00 --:--:--:--
AND WE SAT DOWN, AND WE...

605 00:32:51:00 --:--:--:--
WE TALKED, AND I SHOWED HIM
SOME OF THE EARLY POEMS--

606 00:32:54:28 --:--:--:--
THAT DRAGON COMING OUT
OR--OH, SEVERAL OF THEM.

607 00:33:01:00 --:--:--:--
SOMEHOW, WE STARTED GOING BACK
AND FORTH, AND IMMEDIATELY

608 00:33:05:24 --:--:--:--
A BOND WAS MADE.

609 00:33:07:06 --:--:--:--
IT WAS HISTORY!

610 00:33:09:14 00:33:11:14
IT WAS HISTORY, DAMN IT!

611 00:33:15:00 --:--:--:--
SO I REMEMBER SEEING KENNY
SITTING ON THE FLOOR HOLDING

612 00:33:19:06 --:--:--:--
A PIECE OF PAPER AND
TALKING INTO A MIC.

613 00:33:22:18 --:--:--:--
I SAID,
"YEAH, THAT'S THE WAY WE

614 00:33:24:18 --:--:--:--
STARTED DOING THAT."

615 00:33:26:12 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, WE WOULD TYPE IT UP,
YOU KNOW, WE WOULD TALK IT BACK

616 00:33:30:10 --:--:--:--
AND FORTH FIRST, AND
THEN I WOULD TYPE IT UP.

617 00:33:33:12 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE THINGS
THAT WE HAD WERE ALREADY DONE,

618 00:33:36:17 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, LIKE THE DINOSAUR
THING AND SOME

619 00:33:40:15 --:--:--:--
OF THE OTHER STUFF.

620 00:33:42:00 --:--:--:--
IT WAS ALREADY BEEN WRITTEN,
AND I WOULD JUST GIVE IT TO HIM,

621 00:33:44:06 --:--:--:--
AND HE WOULD BE ABLE TO
FOLLOW WHAT I HAD WRITTEN.

622 00:33:47:18 --:--:--:--
NOW I DON'T KNOW IF HE
DID IT WORD FOR WORD.

623 00:33:49:27 --:--:--:--
AND TO BE HONEST, WE NEVER
EVEN TALKED ABOUT THAT.

624 00:33:54:05 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, BECAUSE I WAS LIKE,
"I'M THE DEAF STUDENT, YOU'RE

625 00:33:57:00 00:33:58:17
THE INTERPRETER."

626 00:34:02:15 --:--:--:--
NO, LATER THAT WAS.

627 00:34:04:15 --:--:--:--
YESTERDAY, SURE.

628 00:34:07:15 --:--:--:--
NO, YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T REALLY
KNOW ABOUT INTERPRETERS

629 00:34:11:10 --:--:--:--
BACK THEN.

630 00:34:13:00 --:--:--:--
BECAUSE I STILL DIDN'T
UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY WERE

631 00:34:16:04 --:--:--:--
ALL ABOUT.

632 00:34:17:22 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T KNOW
WHAT AN INTERPRETER WAS

633 00:34:21:15 --:--:--:--
SUPPOSED TO DO.

634 00:34:22:26 --:--:--:--
I HADN'T
EXPERIENCED IT BEFORE.

635 00:34:24:20 --:--:--:--
I NEVER GREW UP WITH ONE.

636 00:34:26:17 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, NO ONE
EVER TAUGHT ME.

637 00:34:28:25 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS IN A
PLAY, THEY WOULD HAVE SOMEONE

638 00:34:31:28 --:--:--:--
SPEAK FOR ME, YOU KNOW,
BUT THERE WASN'T ANY SORT

639 00:34:34:25 --:--:--:--
OF PERSONAL
CONNECTION OR ANYTHING.

640 00:34:37:05 --:--:--:--
SO, YOU KNOW, IT DIDN'T
REALLY BOTHER ME OR ANYTHING.

641 00:34:41:27 --:--:--:--
I JUST REMEMBER HE STARTED
TALKING ABOUT MAKING

642 00:34:44:05 --:--:--:--
SOUND EFFECTS,

643 00:34:46:19 --:--:--:--
PLAYING AROUND WITH SOUNDS.

644 00:34:50:03 --:--:--:--
I TOLD HIM, "YEAH, YEAH,
YEAH, MAKE THE SOUNDS."

645 00:34:53:15 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, WE'RE
BOTH CONTRIBUTING.

646 00:34:54:27 --:--:--:--
IT'S A COLLABORATION.

647 00:34:57:15 --:--:--:--
BUT THEN LATER, I KNOW HE
REALLY, REALLY GOT INTO IT,

648 00:35:02:15 00:35:04:16
COMPARED TO WHAT
HE'S DOING NOW.

649 00:35:08:15 --:--:--:--
WELL, IT'S LIKE I
REMEMBER ONE POEM, UM...

650 00:35:12:04 00:35:15:15
"BASEBALL IN CENTRAL AMERICA."

651 00:35:20:15 --:--:--:--
YEAH, IN THE BOTTOM OF
THE 9th INNING OF ROMERO.

652 00:35:24:15 --:--:--:--
I DID THAT TURNAROUND OF
ROMERO BEING SHOT, AND

653 00:35:30:03 --:--:--:--
KENNY HAD A BELL,
AND HE KEPT HITTING IT

654 00:35:33:20 00:35:35:21
IN A RHYTHMIC STYLE.

655 00:35:39:15 --:--:--:--
AND JUST KEPT HITTING THE BELL,
FOLLOWING THIS RHYTHM.

656 00:35:47:00 --:--:--:--
AND HE STARTED TO DO SORT
OF THESE DIFFERENT

657 00:35:49:22 --:--:--:--
SOUNDS WITH IT,
AND THEN HE STARTED USING

658 00:35:51:20 --:--:--:--
A PAPER BAG, AND HE WAS
BREATHING INTO IT TO MAKE THE

659 00:35:55:10 --:--:--:--
SOUND OF LIKE A HEARTBEAT.

660 00:35:57:14 --:--:--:--
AND THEN WHEN IT POPS,
EVERYBODY STARTS RUNNING OUT

661 00:36:00:17 --:--:--:--
OF THE CHURCH.

662 00:36:02:00 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THE
ARCHBISHOP HAD BEEN SHOT.

663 00:36:05:18 --:--:--:--
HE MADE THE SOUND INTO THE
MICROPHONE TO EMPHASIZE THAT.

664 00:36:10:23 --:--:--:--
AND IT WAS LIKE FOR THE
HEARING PEOPLE TO NOT ONLY GET

665 00:36:14:03 --:--:--:--
THE LANGUAGE, BUT TO REALLY
WATCH THE SIGNS AND HAVE

666 00:36:17:00 --:--:--:--
THE SOUNDS.

667 00:36:18:20 --:--:--:--
IT WAS LESS WORDS
AND MORE SOUND CUES.

668 00:36:21:06 --:--:--:--
AND I THINK IT WAS A PRETTY
GOOD IDEA, GREAT IDEA.

669 00:36:24:06 00:36:26:17
I REALLY ENJOYED
THE WHOLE CONCEPT.

670 00:36:30:00 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, IN THE BEGINNING,
YOU KNOW THE FIRST TIME WE

671 00:36:32:27 --:--:--:--
GAVE A PRESENTATION, PEOPLE
DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY OR

672 00:36:35:27 --:--:--:--
HOW TO REACT.

673 00:36:37:05 --:--:--:--
THEY WERE JUST KIND OF
LIKE, "WHAT'S THAT?"

674 00:36:39:22 --:--:--:--
AND I WAS UP ON STAGE
SAYING, "YEAH, ME TOO.

675 00:36:42:21 --:--:--:--
I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M DOING."

676 00:36:44:18 --:--:--:--
SO THEY'RE LOOKING AT ME,
I'M LOOKING AT THEM.

677 00:36:46:22 --:--:--:--
WE'RE KIND OF WAVING
AT EACH OTHER.

678 00:36:49:00 --:--:--:--
I SAID, "THANK YOU"
AND LEAVE.

679 00:36:50:15 --:--:--:--
IT WAS SAME LIKE WITH THE
HEARING PEOPLE GOING,

680 00:36:52:14 --:--:--:--
"I DON'T KNOW.
THERE IT IS."

681 00:36:54:15 00:36:56:00
HA HA!

682 00:37:02:00 --:--:--:--
AT FIRST, I DIDN'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT DEAF CULTURE.

683 00:37:04:16 --:--:--:--
I WAS YOUNG.
I WAS STILL LEARNING.

684 00:37:09:24 --:--:--:--
THE HEARING ARTS COMMUNITY
WAS VERY STRONG

685 00:37:12:12 --:--:--:--
AND WELL-ESTABLISHED

686 00:37:13:21 --:--:--:--
AND, YOU KNOW, WITH ALL THESE
TRADITIONS AND FOLKLORE.

687 00:37:16:29 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T REALLY
UNDERSTAND THAT THE DEAF

688 00:37:19:29 --:--:--:--
COMMUNITY HAD THAT.

689 00:37:22:15 --:--:--:--
SO I DIDN'T HAVE A
BOND WITH IT YET.

690 00:37:27:13 --:--:--:--
OFTEN, I WOULD JUST SAY THINGS
THAT DIDN'T--YOU KNOW WEREN'T

691 00:37:30:28 00:37:34:06
CULTURALLY APPROPRIATE OR
DIDN'T MATCH THE CULTURE.

692 00:37:38:00 00:37:40:00
IT'S LIKE, UH...

693 00:37:43:00 --:--:--:--
IT'S LIKE BEFORE.

694 00:37:44:24 --:--:--:--
REMEMBER I WAS TALKING ABOUT
THAT PANEL WHERE WE WERE

695 00:37:47:00 --:--:--:--
TALKING ABOUT A TAPE AND I
SAID, "THIS WAS SEVERAL YEARS

696 00:37:52:00 --:--:--:--
"AGO WHEN I WAS A YOUNG STUDENT
AND I SAID, 'WHO'S GONNA

697 00:37:54:15 --:--:--:--
"'WATCH A PERFORMANCE?

698 00:37:56:14 --:--:--:--
WHO'S GOING TO BE
INTERESTED IN MY WORK?'"

699 00:37:59:25 --:--:--:--
I SAID THAT?

700 00:38:01:14 --:--:--:--
I DIDN'T MEAN THAT.

701 00:38:03:13 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, IF I HAD A TIME
MACHINE AND CURRENT ME COULD,

702 00:38:07:01 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, TRAVEL BACK IN TIME
TO YOUNGER ME, I'D SMACK

703 00:38:10:05 00:38:12:04
MYSELF IN THE HEAD. HA HA!

704 00:38:17:15 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT I
WOULD DO AND THEN GET BACK TO

705 00:38:19:27 00:38:23:02
THE FUTURE,
SO, ANYWAY...

706 00:38:26:15 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, THERE WERE
ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT LEVELS.

707 00:38:28:17 --:--:--:--
AT THAT TIME, WE HAD POETS
LIKE CLAYTON VALLI

708 00:38:31:28 --:--:--:--
AND ELLA LENTZ.

709 00:38:33:11 --:--:--:--
THEY WERE GOING LINE
BY LINE WITH THINGS.

710 00:38:37:13 --:--:--:--
AND TO BE HONEST, AT THAT
FIRST CONFERENCE, THE ASL LIT

711 00:38:41:00 00:38:42:15
CONFERENCE...

712 00:38:46:00 --:--:--:--
LET ME GO BACK.

713 00:38:49:00 --:--:--:--
THERE WAS DR. PANARA.

714 00:38:53:15 00:38:56:00
OH, YES, YES, YES,
I REMEMBER.

715 00:38:57:15 00:38:59:03
MIRIAM HAS A TATTOO.

716 00:39:03:15 --:--:--:--
ANYWAY, I HAD TAKEN A CLASS
WITH PATRICK GRAYBILL.

717 00:39:08:03 --:--:--:--
AND I CAN'T REMEMBER
EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS CALLED.

718 00:39:11:22 --:--:--:--
IT WAS TRANSLATION
OR WHATEVER.

719 00:39:15:21 --:--:--:--
I TOOK A LOT OF CLASSES,
AND THEY KIND OF RUN

720 00:39:18:14 --:--:--:--
TOGETHER FOR ME,
BUT IT WAS ABOUT HAND SHAPES

721 00:39:21:26 --:--:--:--
AND BEING VERY SPECIFIC.

722 00:39:23:15 --:--:--:--
AND PANARA WAS A LOT MORE
ABOUT THE WORDS, THE ENGLISH.

723 00:39:28:27 --:--:--:--
LIKE "SPOON RIVER ANTHOLOGY."

724 00:39:31:16 --:--:--:--
HE WOULD ASK, "HOW
WOULD WE SIGN THAT?"

725 00:39:33:23 --:--:--:--
AND I WOULD TAKE A LOOK AT
THE TEXT AND BE ABLE TO

726 00:39:36:10 --:--:--:--
EXPAND ON IT,

727 00:39:38:19 --:--:--:--
BUT IT WAS STILL ENGLISH
INTO AN ASL TRANSLATION.

728 00:39:41:29 --:--:--:--
IT WASN'T STARTING OUT
FROM SIGN LANGUAGE.

729 00:39:46:00 --:--:--:--
IT DIDN'T STRAY VERY
FAR FROM ENGLISH.

730 00:39:49:00 --:--:--:--
YOU WOULD STILL
HAVE THE POINT.

731 00:39:50:15 --:--:--:--
I MEAN, SOMETIMES
YOU WOULD GO OFF,
AND THEN YOU'D COME BACK

732 00:39:54:00 --:--:--:--
AND OFTEN COME BACK.

733 00:39:55:15 --:--:--:--
I MEAN,
I LOVE TO WATCH HOW HE WOULD

734 00:39:58:10 --:--:--:--
SIGN AND, YOU KNOW, HIS POEMS
ABOUT "ON HIS DEAFNESS" AND ALL

735 00:40:02:24 --:--:--:--
THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.

736 00:40:04:24 --:--:--:--
I HADN'T MET DEBBIE YET.

737 00:40:06:16 --:--:--:--
DEBBIE WASN'T THERE FOR
THE FIRST COUPLE OF YEARS.

738 00:40:10:25 --:--:--:--
BUT I STARTED OUT,
YOU KNOW, LIKE MOVIES.

739 00:40:14:13 --:--:--:--
I LOVED MOVIES.

740 00:40:15:27 --:--:--:--
I WAS A LOUSY SIGNER,
KIND OF LIKE MALZ

741 00:40:19:03 --:--:--:--
THE FIRST TIME YOU
SEE "JABBERWOCKY."

742 00:40:21:15 --:--:--:--
HE'S A LOUSY SIGNER,
BUT HE'S VERY CREATIVE.

743 00:40:25:00 --:--:--:--
SO THAT MOVIE TECHNIQUE,
THE VISUAL VERNACULAR,

744 00:40:28:29 --:--:--:--
I WANTED TO BE THE CAMERA,
HAVE LONG SHOTS, CLOSE-UPS,

745 00:40:34:00 --:--:--:--
USING THE BODY TO BECOME,
YOU KNOW, THE POETIC SPACE

746 00:40:39:00 00:40:42:19
AND HAVE THE BODY
BECOME THE LINES.

747 00:40:45:00 --:--:--:--
YOU HAD FAR SHOTS, SOMETHING
TALL, SOMETHING CLOSE,

748 00:40:49:10 --:--:--:--
ALL THOSE MOVIE CINEMATIC
TECHNIQUES, YOU KNOW, WOULD

749 00:40:53:00 --:--:--:--
BE INVOLVED.

750 00:40:55:18 --:--:--:--
AND THEN WHEN I MET DEBBIE,
SHE HAD COME BACK, I GUESS,

751 00:40:59:13 --:--:--:--
TO FINISH HER DEGREE.

752 00:41:01:17 --:--:--:--
SO WHEN SHE CAME BACK, I FOUND
OUT WE HAD A LOT IN COMMON.

753 00:41:05:15 --:--:--:--
LET ME THINK. WHAT WAS
THAT FIRST POEM?

754 00:41:09:00 --:--:--:--
IT WAS BEFORE "RAPE CHOCOLATE."

755 00:41:12:15 --:--:--:--
BEFORE THAT, BEFORE
THAT, BEFORE THAT.

756 00:41:16:26 --:--:--:--
I JUST REMEMBER WATCHING
HER AND THE WAY SHE WOULD

757 00:41:20:08 --:--:--:--
EXPRESS HERSELF.

758 00:41:22:17 --:--:--:--
AND I THOUGHT, "WOW!

759 00:41:26:00 --:--:--:--
WE'RE VERY SIMILAR."

760 00:41:28:15 --:--:--:--
SHE USES A LOT OF BODY
MOVEMENT, AND THE VOCABULARY

761 00:41:34:13 --:--:--:--
WAS THE MOVEMENT COMPARED
TO THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO WERE

762 00:41:37:08 --:--:--:--
WORKING WITH JUST HAND
SHAPES AND RHYTHMS.

763 00:41:40:01 --:--:--:--
SHE WAS VERY DIFFERENT.

764 00:41:42:14 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, SO IT WAS LIKE THERE
WERE TWO DIFFERENT GROUPS,

765 00:41:46:29 --:--:--:--
AND WE BECAME REALLY GOOD
FRIENDS RIGHT AWAY.

766 00:41:49:23 --:--:--:--
WE STARTED TO WORK WITH EACH
OTHER AND WE STARTED TO GET

767 00:41:53:14 --:--:--:--
INVOLVED, THE THREE OF US
ALL WORKING TOGETHER.

768 00:41:56:02 --:--:--:--
WE STARTED LIVING TOGETHER,
THE THREE OF US.

769 00:41:58:08 --:--:--:--
SO AT THE HOUSE EVERY NIGHT, WE
WERE SHARING AND COLLABORATING

770 00:42:01:00 --:--:--:--
AND CREATING.

771 00:42:02:16 --:--:--:--
IT WAS AWESOME!

772 00:42:04:07 --:--:--:--
AND YOU KNOW, WE WERE DOING A
LOT OF THE SAME WORK WITH BODY

773 00:42:07:22 --:--:--:--
LANGUAGE AND DIFFERENT
TECHNIQUES AND ALL THIS

774 00:42:10:00 --:--:--:--
KIND OF STUFF.

775 00:42:11:15 --:--:--:--
I THOUGHT, "THAT WAS A GREAT
TECHNIQUE AND HOW TO BE ABLE

776 00:42:13:15 --:--:--:--
TO, YOU KNOW, INCORPORATE
ALL THESE VISUAL THINGS.

777 00:42:17:15 --:--:--:--
AND THEN I TOOK A DANCE CLASS
OR... I THINK THAT WAS BEFORE

778 00:42:23:21 --:--:--:--
THE CONFERENCE, THOUGH.

779 00:42:25:08 00:42:27:12
NO, THAT WAS BEFORE
THE CONFERENCE.

780 00:42:31:00 --:--:--:--
JIM HAD GOTTEN SOME MONEY TO
ESTABLISH THE VERY FIRST ASL

781 00:42:37:15 --:--:--:--
LIT CONFERENCE.

782 00:42:39:18 --:--:--:--
AND THIS WAS THE FIRST ONE.

783 00:42:41:12 --:--:--:--
PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT THE
SECOND ONE WAS THE FIRST.

784 00:42:45:23 --:--:--:--
AND THAT WAS IN...'87?

785 00:42:49:05 --:--:--:--
THE FIRST WITH ELLA, PATRICK,
CLAYTON, DEBBIE, AND MYSELF.

786 00:42:55:24 --:--:--:--
THAT WAS THE FIRST ONE.

787 00:42:58:08 --:--:--:--
A LOT OF PEOPLE DIDN'T
EVEN KNOW ABOUT THAT.

788 00:43:00:12 00:43:04:19
I GUESS '98
OR SOMETHING?

789 00:43:08:15 --:--:--:--
BUT PEOPLE THOUGHT
THAT WAS THE FIRST.

790 00:43:11:00 --:--:--:--
I SAID, "NO.

791 00:43:12:15 --:--:--:--
OURS IS THE FIRST.
THEIRS WAS THE SECOND."

792 00:43:16:01 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, IT'S THE
FORGOTTEN CONFERENCE.

793 00:43:22:04 --:--:--:--
BUT LUCKILY, I HAVE
EVERYTHING DOCUMENTED.

794 00:43:27:15 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, A LOT OF
PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW WHO

795 00:43:30:00 --:--:--:--
THE PEOPLE WERE.

796 00:43:31:20 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW JIM SAID, "YOU
KNOW, WE'RE VERY EXCITED.

797 00:43:34:26 --:--:--:--
"WE'RE WELCOMING PEOPLE.

798 00:43:36:18 --:--:--:--
WERE GETTING PEOPLE
EXCITED ABOUT IT."

799 00:43:38:21 --:--:--:--
I'LL NEVER FORGET THAT.

800 00:43:40:03 --:--:--:--
I REMEMBER WAS ON
A THURSDAY EVENING.

801 00:43:43:17 --:--:--:--
WE WERE GETTING
TOGETHER FOR A RECEPTION,

802 00:43:45:17 --:--:--:--
AND WE WERE TALKING AND
LOOKING AT EACH OTHER.

803 00:43:47:16 --:--:--:--
AND I DIDN'T KNOW
ELLA OR VALLI.

804 00:43:50:24 --:--:--:--
I MEAN, THEY HAD BEEN
INVOLVED FOR YEARS AND YEARS.

805 00:43:52:22 --:--:--:--
I HAD NO IDEA.

806 00:43:54:26 --:--:--:--
I JUST THOUGHT THE WHOLE
THING HAD JUST STARTED,

807 00:43:58:00 --:--:--:--
BUT YOU KNOW,
I WAS IGNORANT.

808 00:43:59:23 --:--:--:--
I WAS YOUNG AND DUMB.

809 00:44:03:03 --:--:--:--
I DIDN'T KNOW WHO ANYBODY WAS.

810 00:44:05:08 --:--:--:--
I REMEMBER PATRICK AND HIS
STORYTELLING AND HIS ASL,

811 00:44:08:25 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, HOW ASL WAS
FINALLY RECOGNIZED AS

812 00:44:11:15 --:--:--:--
A LANGUAGE.

813 00:44:12:26 --:--:--:--
AND I THOUGHT, "I DON'T
SEE THE STRUGGLE."

814 00:44:15:09 --:--:--:--
I DIDN'T KNOW THE HISTORY.

815 00:44:18:15 --:--:--:--
I DIDN'T KNOW WHO I WAS.

816 00:44:20:03 --:--:--:--
I DIDN'T KNOW MY ROOTS.

817 00:44:22:00 --:--:--:--
I WAS JUST A FISH,
YOU KNOW, OUT OF WATER.

818 00:44:27:09 00:44:29:15
LATER, IS WHEN I FOUND.

819 00:44:32:15 --:--:--:--
AND THEN A LOT OF HEARING
PEOPLE GOT REAL EXCITED,

820 00:44:35:09 --:--:--:--
AND THEY WANTED TO LEARN
MUCH MORE ABOUT IT.

821 00:44:38:02 --:--:--:--
AND I THOUGHT, "WELL, THIS IS
JUST PART OF MY EVERYDAY LIFE.

822 00:44:40:27 --:--:--:--
THAT'S THE LANGUAGE."

823 00:44:43:15 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, MY EXPERIENCE
WAS WATCHING INTERPRETERS

824 00:44:48:03 --:--:--:--
WITH HEARING POETS.

825 00:44:50:13 --:--:--:--
FIRST TIME I SAW THIS
WAS IN ROCHESTER.

826 00:44:53:04 --:--:--:--
I MEAN, ROCHESTER WAS
A VERY UNIQUE TIME.

827 00:44:56:20 --:--:--:--
I MEAN,
IT WAS A VERY SPECIAL

828 00:44:58:05 00:44:59:28
TIME IN HISTORY.

829 00:45:03:27 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, A LOT OF DEAF PEOPLE
WHO WERE VERY INTERESTED

830 00:45:07:15 --:--:--:--
AND MOTIVATED IN THIS,
AND A LOT OF THE HEARING

831 00:45:10:08 --:--:--:--
INTERPRETERS, TOO.

832 00:45:11:20 --:--:--:--
THEY WANTED TO KNOW HOW COULD
WE COMMUNICATE WHAT IT IS THAT

833 00:45:14:29 --:--:--:--
YOU'RE EXPRESSING.

834 00:45:17:00 --:--:--:--
AND THE INTERPRETERS WERE
GETTING EXPOSED TO WHAT DEAF

835 00:45:20:13 --:--:--:--
PEOPLE LIKED AND WHAT THEY
DIDN'T LIKE AND BEING ABLE TO

836 00:45:23:07 --:--:--:--
MATCH THE CULTURE MORE,
NOT JUST DOING, YOU KNOW,

837 00:45:26:06 --:--:--:--
A FORMAL KIND OF
SIGN LANGUAGE.

838 00:45:30:00 --:--:--:--
PART OF IT CAME FROM
THAT GINSBERG WORKSHOP,

839 00:45:33:01 --:--:--:--
BECAUSE THEY WERE
ABLE TO LET GO.

840 00:45:37:27 --:--:--:--
THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS
THAT YOU COULDN'T JUST SAY

841 00:45:40:17 --:--:--:--
IN ENGLISH THAT THEY WERE
DOING IN SIGN LANGUAGE WITHOUT

842 00:45:43:00 --:--:--:--
LETTING GO.

843 00:45:44:11 --:--:--:--
AND I REMEMBER A LOT OF THE
INTERPRETERS LIKE SUSAN CHAPEL,

844 00:45:48:04 --:--:--:--
OR YOU WERE THERE,
MIRIAM--THIS IS MIRIAM

845 00:45:51:15 00:45:53:03
SITTING OVER HERE.

846 00:45:57:15 00:45:59:21
OH, BOB BARRETT.

847 00:46:03:15 --:--:--:--
EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE,
JIM WOULD DO SOMETHING.

848 00:46:07:21 00:46:09:15
CINDY BARRETT.

849 00:46:12:00 --:--:--:--
THERE WAS A WHOLE GROUP
OF PEOPLE, I REMEMBER.

850 00:46:16:00 00:46:18:04
I MEAN IT DEPENDED
ON THE POET.

851 00:46:21:12 --:--:--:--
TODD BEERS, A VERY STRONG
VISUAL PERSON WAS GREAT.

852 00:46:26:19 --:--:--:--
I ENJOYED HIM SO MUCH.

853 00:46:31:00 --:--:--:--
PAUL DICKSON.

854 00:46:32:11 00:46:36:08
HE WAS LIKE A WILD MAN,
AND HE WAS SO CLEAR.

855 00:46:40:24 --:--:--:--
AND YOU WOULDN'T CONNECT
WITH THEM EXACTLY,

856 00:46:43:10 --:--:--:--
BUT THE INTERPRETERS WORKED
REALLY, REALLY HARD.

857 00:46:47:23 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, COMPARED TO WHAT
IS HAPPENING NOW, IT'S JUST--

858 00:46:50:00 --:--:--:--
IT'S DIFFERENT.

859 00:46:51:10 00:46:54:11
I MEAN, PEOPLE AREN'T AS
INVOLVED AS THEY WERE. I MEAN...

860 00:46:56:20 --:--:--:--
BEFORE, WE WERE WORKING
AND INVOLVED EVERY SINGLE DAY.

861 00:47:02:00 --:--:--:--
AND IT WAS. IT WAS
A GREAT TIME.

862 00:47:04:00 00:47:05:15
WONDERFUL!

863 00:47:10:13 --:--:--:--
OK, SO HERE'S A
REALLY GOOD EXAMPLE.

864 00:47:13:15 --:--:--:--
I WAS TALKING WITH DIRKSEN,
AND THERE'S THE QUOTE THAT HE

865 00:47:17:28 --:--:--:--
EVEN WROTE ABOUT IT, TOO.

866 00:47:19:17 --:--:--:--
HE WAS TALKING ABOUT
SPOKEN LANGUAGE

867 00:47:22:20 --:--:--:--
AND THE ROOT OF LANGUAGE.

868 00:47:25:00 --:--:--:--
"LINGUA" MEANS TONGUE,

869 00:47:27:19 --:--:--:--
AND "LITERATURE" MEANS WRITTEN.

870 00:47:31:15 --:--:--:--
SO "TONGUE WRITING," BUT IT
DOESN'T MATCH WITH SIGN LANGUAGE

871 00:47:35:15 --:--:--:--
AND THE PROBLEM IS,
HISTORICALLY, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN

872 00:47:38:00 --:--:--:--
FOCUSED ON, YOU KNOW,
THE WORDS AND THE SOUNDS.

873 00:47:42:08 --:--:--:--
LIKE IF I SPELL THE WORD "TREE."

874 00:47:44:11 --:--:--:--
I WRITE DOWN THE WORD "TREE,"
IT DOESN'T MEAN

875 00:47:46:15 --:--:--:--
ANYTHING TO ME.

876 00:47:47:29 --:--:--:--
THERE'S NOTHING THERE.
T-R-E-E.

877 00:47:50:19 --:--:--:--
BUT WHEN I SIGN IT, I SEE IT.

878 00:47:53:18 --:--:--:--
IT'S THERE,
PHYSICALLY THERE.

879 00:47:58:00 --:--:--:--
I CAN SEE A TREE.

880 00:48:00:06 --:--:--:--
OR LIKE A BOAT.

881 00:48:01:10 --:--:--:--
YOU CAN SEE IT.

882 00:48:02:16 --:--:--:--
OR THE WATER.

883 00:48:03:27 --:--:--:--
YOU CAN SEE IT.
IT'S CLEAR.

884 00:48:06:14 --:--:--:--
IF I SPELL OUT "WATER" OR "LAKE"
OR WHATEVER AND I WRITE IT

885 00:48:10:27 --:--:--:--
ON A PIECE OF PAPER,
I DON'T SEE ANYTHING.

886 00:48:14:06 --:--:--:--
AND THAT'S WHY HISTORICALLY,
YOU KNOW, MODERN POETS HAVE BEEN

887 00:48:18:07 --:--:--:--
LOOKING AT THIS GOING,
"THIS IS WHAT DEAF

888 00:48:19:25 --:--:--:--
PEOPLE CAN DO?"

889 00:48:21:02 --:--:--:--
THEY BEEN STRUGGLING WITH
IMAGERY IN THE LANGUAGE

890 00:48:23:28 --:--:--:--
AND LETTING THE LANGUAGE
BECOME THE PICTURE, BUT WE'VE

891 00:48:26:06 --:--:--:--
ALREADY GOT IT.

892 00:48:28:03 --:--:--:--
IT'S BUILT INTO
THE LANGUAGE.

893 00:48:30:15 --:--:--:--
AND A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT,
"WELL, ASL ISN'T

894 00:48:32:14 --:--:--:--
"REAL LITERATURE

895 00:48:34:15 --:--:--:--
"BECAUSE IT HAS NOTHING TO
DO WITH SPEAKING OR

896 00:48:37:28 --:--:--:--
THE WRITTEN WORD."

897 00:48:39:20 --:--:--:--
WE HAVE TO
REDEFINE LITERATURE.

898 00:48:42:15 --:--:--:--
WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IT
INSTEAD OF BEING ON THE EARS

899 00:48:46:07 --:--:--:--
ON THE EYES.

900 00:48:48:04 --:--:--:--
SO, LITERATURE DOESN'T MEAN
JUST WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN

901 00:48:50:22 --:--:--:--
SPEAK IT OR WRITE IT.

902 00:48:53:14 --:--:--:--
IT HAS TO BECOME MUCH
MORE GLOBAL PHYSICALLY.

903 00:48:58:01 00:49:00:11
THAT'S SOMETHING THAT
NEEDS TO CHANGE.

904 00:49:03:13 00:49:05:13
PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT THAT.

905 00:49:08:00 --:--:--:--
LET ME TAKE SOMETHING--
LET'S SEE...

906 00:49:10:00 --:--:--:--
FROM THE POET NERUDA.

907 00:49:12:16 --:--:--:--
THIS IS A GREAT EXAMPLE.
VERY SIMPLE.

908 00:49:16:15 --:--:--:--
I WANT TO DO WITH YOU WHAT
THE SPRING DOES TO

909 00:49:20:27 --:--:--:--
THE CHERRY TREE.

910 00:49:23:15 --:--:--:--
OK? VERY SIMPLE LINE, BUT
YOU DON'T SEE A PICTURE.

911 00:49:27:25 --:--:--:--
"I WANT."

912 00:49:29:15 --:--:--:--
WHAT'S THAT SIGN?

913 00:49:30:29 --:--:--:--
WHAT'S THAT GOT TO DO--
LIKE A HAND OUT, BEGGING OR...

914 00:49:34:00 --:--:--:--
AND THEN "SPRING."

915 00:49:36:02 --:--:--:--
MAYBE A LITTLE BIT
OF A PICTURE.

916 00:49:38:17 --:--:--:--
AND THEN "CHERRY TREE."

917 00:49:40:15 --:--:--:--
BUT IF I CHANGE THAT INTO A
PHYSICAL CONCEPTUALIZATION

918 00:49:44:00 00:49:45:20
LIKE THIS...

919 00:50:17:15 --:--:--:--
THE PICTURE IS THERE.
PERIOD.

920 00:50:22:00 00:50:23:15
END OF STORY.

921 00:50:26:26 --:--:--:--
I DIDN'T KNOW
DOROTHY MILES, BUT WOW.

922 00:50:31:18 --:--:--:--
SHE...I REMEMBER HER
EARLY WORK FROM A VIDEOTAPE.

923 00:50:37:14 --:--:--:--
"EYE LANGUAGE" OR--

924 00:50:39:00 00:50:42:06
NO, "LANGUAGE FOR THE EYE"
WAS THE NAME OF THE POEM.

925 00:50:44:15 --:--:--:--
I SAW THAT.
IT WAS WONDERFUL.

926 00:50:48:15 --:--:--:--
AND PEOPLE TOLD ME THAT SHE,
YOU KNOW, WOULD TALK AND SIGN

927 00:50:52:06 --:--:--:--
AT THE SAME TIME.

928 00:50:54:04 --:--:--:--
BUT THE WAY THAT SHE PLAYED
WITH THE MORPHOLOGY, THE HAND

929 00:50:57:15 --:--:--:--
SHAPES, PEOPLE STANDING OR
FALLING, THE WAY SHE WAS

930 00:51:01:19 --:--:--:--
LETTING GO A BALL BOUNCING,
AND SHE WOULD CHANGE TO

931 00:51:04:27 --:--:--:--
SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

932 00:51:06:15 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, THAT WASN'T THE
NORMAL WAY OF DOING THINGS.

933 00:51:09:03 --:--:--:--
IT WAS LIKE SHE WAS JUST
TAKING OUT LITTLE BITS

934 00:51:11:11 --:--:--:--
AND PIECES AND STILL FOLLOWING
THE TRADITIONAL LINES,

935 00:51:15:22 --:--:--:--
BUT THEY WEREN'T
COMPLETELY ENGLISH.

936 00:51:19:03 00:51:21:16
YOU KNOW, IT WAS
LINE BY LINE...

937 00:51:23:15 --:--:--:--
THEN YOU'D HAVE A HAND SHAPE
OR A FACIAL EXPRESSION

938 00:51:26:25 --:--:--:--
OR A BODY MOVEMENT,

939 00:51:30:00 --:--:--:--
BUT IT WAS STILL FOLLOWING
WHAT THE EAR SAID, AND IT WAS

940 00:51:33:28 --:--:--:--
A STRONG INFLUENCE.

941 00:51:35:02 --:--:--:--
BUT THE LINE WAS
ALSO BEING CHANGED.

942 00:51:38:10 --:--:--:--
SHE WAS PLAYING WITH
THE LANGUAGE, AND IT

943 00:51:40:26 --:--:--:--
WAS FASCINATING.

944 00:51:43:06 --:--:--:--
AND I THINK THAT THAT PROBABLY
INFLUENCED VALLI AND ELLA

945 00:51:47:10 --:--:--:--
AND PATRICK, WHERE PEOPLE
WOULD LOOK AT THAT

946 00:51:49:13 --:--:--:--
AND SAY, "WOW!"

947 00:51:52:12 --:--:--:--
SHE WAS GREAT AT SIGNING AND
SPEAKING AT THE SAME TIME.

948 00:51:57:09 --:--:--:--
BUT IF YOU IGNORE WHAT SHE
WAS SAYING, IF YOU LOOK

949 00:51:59:29 --:--:--:--
AT THE HANDS,
IT'S REALLY RICH.

950 00:52:02:27 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, AND SHE IS
DEFINITELY PLAYING

951 00:52:05:13 --:--:--:--
WITH THE LANGUAGE.

952 00:52:07:03 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, THAT WAS DEFINITELY
A MANIPULATION OF THE ART.

953 00:52:10:20 --:--:--:--
IT'S ALMOST LIKE SHE'S WORKING
WITH CLAY AND FOLLOWING IT,

954 00:52:14:01 --:--:--:--
BUT SAYING, "SHH, SHH, SHH,
I'M GOING TO MOVE THIS AROUND

955 00:52:16:00 --:--:--:--
"AND MAKE IT MINE.

956 00:52:17:15 --:--:--:--
I KNOW THIS IS YOUR WAY.
THIS IS MY WAY."

957 00:52:20:15 --:--:--:--
AND YOU KNOW, I
REALLY APPLAUD THAT.

958 00:52:23:16 --:--:--:--
IT WAS SO INSPIRING BECAUSE
YOU'D SEE LIKE MALZ

959 00:52:27:19 --:--:--:--
AND HIS "JABBERWOCKY."

960 00:52:29:05 --:--:--:--
HE TELLS THE STORY...WAY
BACK IN THE EARLY DAYS.

961 00:52:34:27 --:--:--:--
AND THEN YOU'D SEE WITH JOE
AT NTD, YOU KNOW, WHERE HE'S

962 00:52:39:15 --:--:--:--
TAKING OUT THE SWORD AND
THEY'RE FIGHTING THE MONSTER,

963 00:52:43:11 --:--:--:--
AND YOU GO, "WOW!"

964 00:52:45:15 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW BEFORE THAT, IT
WAS MUCH MORE JUST SIGNING.

965 00:52:49:00 --:--:--:--
WHAT A VERY DIFFERENT
APPROACH.

966 00:52:52:02 --:--:--:--
SO IT WAS LIKE ONE
BUILT ON THE OTHER.

967 00:52:55:02 --:--:--:--
AND YOU KNOW, TO THIS DAY,
"JABBERWOCKY" STILL GOES

968 00:52:58:08 --:--:--:--
IN TWO DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS.

969 00:53:00:05 --:--:--:--
ONE IS MORE THE FORMAL
SIGN LANGUAGE, YOU KNOW,

970 00:53:03:00 --:--:--:--
THE WRITTEN LANGUAGE, AND
THE OTHER IS WHERE THEY'RE

971 00:53:06:00 --:--:--:--
LETTING GO.

972 00:53:08:00 --:--:--:--
IT'S JUST NOT DERIVED FROM
THE WRITTEN WORD, BUT IT'S

973 00:53:13:05 --:--:--:--
LIKE THE STORY OF
WHAT'S GOING ON NEXT.

974 00:53:16:24 --:--:--:--
IN "MY THIRD EYE" THAT
THEY DID IT NTD,

975 00:53:19:26 --:--:--:--
I THINK THAT'S THE FIRST
TIME I SAW A GROUP POEM.

976 00:53:24:06 --:--:--:--
THAT, I THINK, WAS INCREDIBLE.

977 00:53:27:21 --:--:--:--
PLUS, THEY'RE ALL COMING UP
WITH ALL SORT OF CREATIVE

978 00:53:31:01 --:--:--:--
THINGS THEMSELVES, BUILDING
A SCRIPT TOGETHER, NOT WORKING

979 00:53:35:01 --:--:--:--
FROM A WRITTEN SCRIPT.

980 00:53:37:00 --:--:--:--
BUT IT WAS LIKE A TURN OF
CULTURE, VERY INTERESTING.

981 00:53:43:02 --:--:--:--
AND THAT, YOU KNOW, PLAYING
WITH THE LANGUAGE, WAS "WOW!"

982 00:53:47:21 --:--:--:--
AND YOU STILL SEE A LOT OF THE
"WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN NEXT?

983 00:53:51:11 --:--:--:--
WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN NEXT?
WHERE'S IT GO?"

984 00:53:53:10 --:--:--:--
AND THEN YOU SEE,
THERE'S DOT.

985 00:53:58:17 --:--:--:--
THEY STILL HAVE THE OLD
SCHOOL, AND THEY'RE KIND

986 00:54:02:22 00:54:05:12
OF BRINGING IT BACK TOGETHER.

987 00:54:09:15 --:--:--:--
SO NOW,
EVEN THOUGH THEY HAD DIVERGED

988 00:54:12:26 --:--:--:--
FOR A LITTLE WHILE, THEY'RE
NOW STARTING TO CONVERGE.

989 00:54:16:00 00:54:19:15
AND WHERE THAT LEADS US IN
THE FUTURE, WHO KNOWS.

990 00:54:30:27 --:--:--:--
YOU REALLY SHOULD
CONTACT CHRIS KRANTZ.

991 00:54:33:21 --:--:--:--
HE RUNS A DEAF PROGRAM IN
VIRGINIA AND GIVES LECTURES

992 00:54:36:15 --:--:--:--
ABOUT HOW PRINTED LITERATURE
INFLUENCED HEARING PEOPLE

993 00:54:40:03 --:--:--:--
AND HOW DOCUMENTING LITERATURE
IN VIDEOTAPES AND MOVIES HAS

994 00:54:43:22 --:--:--:--
INFLUENCED DEAF PEOPLE.

995 00:54:46:00 --:--:--:--
ONCE PRINTING PRESSES WERE
ESTABLISHED, THE PRINTED WORD

996 00:54:48:25 --:--:--:--
BECAME MORE AVAILABLE
TO THE COMMON PEOPLE.

997 00:54:52:00 --:--:--:--
BUT IN TERMS OF MOVIES
AND VIDEOS AND EVERYTHING,

998 00:54:54:24 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, PEOPLE MAKING THESE
VIDEOS, PEOPLE HAVE TO

999 00:54:57:19 --:--:--:--
PRACTICE AND PRACTICE AND
PRACTICE TO MAKE THEM,

1000 00:54:59:15 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, CLEAR.

1001 00:55:00:28 --:--:--:--
AND THAT KINDA MADE SIGNS
FROZEN AND MORE FORMULAIC.

1002 00:55:04:13 --:--:--:--
BUT NOW WITH VLOGS AND THE
ABILITY TO EVERYBODY HAVING

1003 00:55:07:09 --:--:--:--
CAMERAS OR DOING THINGS ON
THEIR COMPUTERS IS CHANGED,

1004 00:55:10:15 --:--:--:--
LANGUAGE CHANGED.

1005 00:55:12:10 --:--:--:--
AND THAT'S GONNA
INFLUENCE THINGS.

1006 00:55:14:00 --:--:--:--
NOW MOVIES HAVE THIS
PERVASIVE INFLUENCE.

1007 00:55:17:10 --:--:--:--
THEY ALWAYS WILL, BUT THERE
IS, YOU KNOW, SORT OF INFORMALLY

1008 00:55:21:03 --:--:--:--
CREEPING INTO THE SIGNS.

1009 00:55:22:22 --:--:--:--
SO MY PREDICTION IS, YEAH,
IT'S GONNA CONTINUE.

1010 00:55:25:26 --:--:--:--
YEAH, DEFINITELY PAGERS,
TEXTING, ALL OF THOSE THINGS

1011 00:55:29:15 --:--:--:--
HAVE AN INFLUENCE.

1012 00:55:30:25 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, THE LANGUAGE IS
GONNA BECOME MORE STANDARDIZED

1013 00:55:34:05 --:--:--:--
BECAUSE VIDEOS ARE CHEAP AND
CAMERAS ARE CHEAP AND DVDS

1014 00:55:36:27 --:--:--:--
ARE CHEAP.

1015 00:55:38:13 --:--:--:--
PLUS, THERE'S A LOT
OF CONTACT LANGUAGE.

1016 00:55:40:23 --:--:--:--
THERE'S THE INTERNET, THERE'S
THE DEAF COMMUNITY BECOMING

1017 00:55:43:05 --:--:--:--
MORE SOPHISTICATED IN THEIR
APPRECIATION OF LITERATURE

1018 00:55:46:00 --:--:--:--
IN ENGLISH.

1019 00:55:47:10 --:--:--:--
THEY'RE EXPECTING MORE.

1020 00:55:48:18 --:--:--:--
THEY'RE DEMANDING
MORE COMPLEXITY.

1021 00:55:50:21 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, BEFORE THINGS
WERE JUST SIMPLE,

1022 00:55:52:15 --:--:--:--
AND THAT WAS FINE.

1023 00:55:54:00 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, SOMEONE
WOULD SAY, "WATCH ME,"

1024 00:55:55:15 --:--:--:--
AND THEY SHOWED THIS PERSON
WALKING AND FALLING OR

1025 00:55:58:27 --:--:--:--
BECOMING A FROG AND SWIMMING,
AND EVERYONE WOULD SAY,

1026 00:56:01:10 --:--:--:--
"OH, MY GOD!
WASN'T THAT AMAZING?

1027 00:56:03:15 --:--:--:--
"DID YOU SEE WHAT HE
DID WITH THIS SIGN?

1028 00:56:05:00 --:--:--:--
IT WAS SO CREATIVE."

1029 00:56:06:15 --:--:--:--
NOW IT'S LIKE,
"YEAH, SO?"

1030 00:56:08:11 --:--:--:--
IT'S GOTTA BECOME
MORE COMPLEX.

1031 00:56:11:11 --:--:--:--
I THINK WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT
THE LANGUAGE ITSELF, YOU KNOW,

1032 00:56:15:16 --:--:--:--
AMERICANS USE A LOT MORE
FINGERSPELLING THAN OVER

1033 00:56:17:15 --:--:--:--
IN EUROPE.

1034 00:56:19:00 --:--:--:--
THEY'RE MUCH MORE
CLASSIFIED-ORIENTED.

1035 00:56:21:20 --:--:--:--
THEY USE CLASSIFIERS
A LOT MORE THERE.

1036 00:56:24:03 --:--:--:--
THEY'RE VERY EXPERIENCED WITH
IT, SO THAT'S WHAT THEY DO.

1037 00:56:27:18 --:--:--:--
THEY TEND TO PLAY MORE WITH
CLASSIFIERS BECAUSE THAT'S

1038 00:56:30:12 --:--:--:--
MORE IN THEIR VERNACULAR.

1039 00:56:32:18 --:--:--:--
BUT HERE WITH PEOPLE LIKE
VALLI LOOKING AT VERB POEMS

1040 00:56:36:08 --:--:--:--
AND USING CLASSIFIERS--I
REMEMBER WHEN I INTERVIEWED HIM.

1041 00:56:39:17 --:--:--:--
I GUESS IT WAS IN '95,
I SAT WITH HIM, AND HE WAS

1042 00:56:43:24 --:--:--:--
TALKING ABOUT HOW THERE ARE
A LOT OF DIFFERENT IMAGES

1043 00:56:46:00 --:--:--:--
IN PICTURES AND POETRY.

1044 00:56:48:00 --:--:--:--
AND HE SAID, "YOU KNOW,
YOU REALLY HAVE TO BE CAREFUL

1045 00:56:51:01 --:--:--:--
"ABOUT SAYING THERE ARE
PICTURES IN POETRY.

1046 00:56:53:15 00:56:55:00
IT'S CLASSIFIERS."

1047 00:56:59:00 --:--:--:--
AND I SAID, "CLASSIFIERS?

1048 00:57:02:15 --:--:--:--
I MEAN, PICTURES
IN THE SIGN LANGUAGE."

1049 00:57:05:01 --:--:--:--
AND HE SAID, "NO.

1050 00:57:06:15 --:--:--:--
"WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
IS A CLASSIFIER.

1051 00:57:10:15 --:--:--:--
THAT'S NOT A PICTURE."

1052 00:57:12:00 --:--:--:--
AND HE SHOWED ME WHEN WE WERE
TALKING ABOUT TREES OR

1053 00:57:15:17 --:--:--:--
THE SIGN FOR TREES.

1054 00:57:17:16 --:--:--:--
THIS IS ACTUALLY PART
OF A CLASSIFIER.

1055 00:57:20:00 --:--:--:--
THE SIGN OF WALKING
WITH BOTH HANDS.

1056 00:57:23:14 --:--:--:--
A BEE SHAPE IS WALKING,
AND THAT'S A CLASSIFIER, ALSO.

1057 00:57:28:03 --:--:--:--
HE SAID,
"THAT'S A BIG PART

1058 00:57:29:27 --:--:--:--
OF THE LANGUAGE, AND
THOSE ACT AS VERBS."

1059 00:57:33:24 --:--:--:--
I HADN'T EVEN REALIZED
THE LINGUISTICS OF THAT.

1060 00:57:36:24 --:--:--:--
I THOUGHT IT WAS NOT REALLY
RELATED TO THE LANGUAGE.

1061 00:57:39:16 --:--:--:--
I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST
SOMETHING IN ME THAT I WAS

1062 00:57:41:19 --:--:--:--
JUST USING.

1063 00:57:43:14 --:--:--:--
BUT THEN WHEN I WATCH THIS
VIDEO, I REALIZE THAT THE TIME

1064 00:57:46:15 --:--:--:--
THAT YOU MADE YOUR DVD THAT
THE SAMPLER--IT'S SO FUNNY TO

1065 00:57:51:22 --:--:--:--
WATCH MYSELF FROM
A LONG TIME AGO.

1066 00:57:53:25 --:--:--:--
I WAS SO CLUELESS ABOUT
SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS.

1067 00:57:57:16 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, I'VE EVOLVED SO
MUCH, AND I'VE GROWN IN MY

1068 00:58:00:08 --:--:--:--
UNDERSTANDING OVER THE YEARS.

1069 00:58:01:27 --:--:--:--
IT'S FASCINATING!

1070 00:58:03:16 --:--:--:--
YEAH, IT'S AN EVOLUTION.

1071 00:58:05:14 00:58:07:15
YEAH, IT'S LIKE
GOING BACKWARDS.

1072 00:58:09:23 00:58:13:15
I OFTEN...HOW DO
I EXPLAIN THIS?

1073 00:58:16:00 --:--:--:--
ELLA'S JUST AMAZING IN HER
ABILITY TO PRODUCE THIS

1074 00:58:20:08 --:--:--:--
CLEAR IMAGERY.

1075 00:58:22:14 --:--:--:--
BACK AT THE TIME WHEN I WAS
YOUNGER, I DIDN'T HAVE THAT

1076 00:58:24:19 --:--:--:--
SENSE OF DEAFHOOD YET.

1077 00:58:27:19 --:--:--:--
HER THEMES TEND TO BE REALLY
DEAF, AND A LOT OF THAT I HAD

1078 00:58:31:15 --:--:--:--
NO EXPERIENCE WITH,

1079 00:58:33:21 00:58:38:00
YOU KNOW, GROWING UP, SO
IT DIDN'T RESONATE WITH ME.

1080 00:58:45:00 --:--:--:--
SO I HAD NO CONNECTION
WITH THAT EXPERIENCE.

1081 00:58:48:03 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, I WAS WORKING WITH
MY HANDS AND LEARNING

1082 00:58:50:11 --:--:--:--
THE LANGUAGE, BUT AS I BECAME
OLDER, I APPRECIATE HER WORK

1083 00:58:53:25 --:--:--:--
EVEN MORE THAN I DID BEFORE.

1084 00:58:55:28 --:--:--:--
I WATCH IT NOW AND I GO,
"I ENJOY IT MUCH MORE THAN

1085 00:58:59:08 --:--:--:--
BEFORE, A LOT MORE THAN
BACK WHEN I FIRST SAW IT."

1086 00:59:02:15 --:--:--:--
I THOUGHT IT WAS GOOD BACK
THEN, BUT NOW I'M TOTALLY

1087 00:59:05:12 --:--:--:--
TAKEN BY IT AND I GET IT.

1088 00:59:07:15 --:--:--:--
BEFORE, I SORT OF TOOK IT
ALL IN, BUT I NEEDED TO

1089 00:59:11:01 --:--:--:--
EXPERIENCE LIFE MORE.

1090 00:59:12:27 --:--:--:--
I NEEDED TO GET MORE FROM THE
LITTLE "d" TO THE BIG "D"

1091 00:59:16:08 --:--:--:--
FOR HER WORK TO REALLY
MAKE SENSE TO ME.

1092 00:59:19:15 --:--:--:--
THE WAY SHE USES HAND SHAPE,
RHYTHMIC MOVEMENT, I MEAN

1093 00:59:22:20 --:--:--:--
IT'S REALLY
CAREFULLY CONSTRUCTED.

1094 00:59:24:29 --:--:--:--
ALL THE TECHNIQUES SHE USES
TO INCORPORATE IN HER WORK--

1095 00:59:28:02 --:--:--:--
THE PICTURE, EVERYTHING--

1096 00:59:29:15 --:--:--:--
IT'S SO RICH.

1097 00:59:31:15 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, THE WAY SHE USES
CIRCLES AND HOW THINGS ARE ALL

1098 00:59:34:16 --:--:--:--
INTERCONNECTED AND HOW
THEY MOVE AND FLOW IN THIS

1099 00:59:37:09 --:--:--:--
CIRCULAR MOTION.

1100 00:59:38:28 --:--:--:--
EVEN WHEN SHE SHOWS A FOREST
OR TREES, THINGS ARE MOVING.

1101 00:59:42:24 --:--:--:--
AND THEN SHE STOPS TO MAKE
SURE THE POINT IS THERE,

1102 00:59:45:15 --:--:--:--
AS IF THE CAMERA
FRAME IS FREEZING.

1103 00:59:48:11 --:--:--:--
IT GIVES PEOPLE A MOMENT TO
SOAK IT IN, AND THEN SHE GOES

1104 00:59:51:15 --:--:--:--
ON TO THE NEXT IMAGE.

1105 00:59:52:27 00:59:54:08
IT'S AMAZING!

1106 00:59:58:15 --:--:--:--
REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT THE
POLITICAL ELEMENT OF POETRY.

1107 01:00:01:24 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT DEAF
RIGHTS AND DEAF EQUITY

1108 01:00:05:04 --:--:--:--
AND PARITY ARE ALL
WITHIN THE LANGUAGE.

1109 01:00:07:13 --:--:--:--
I HADN'T REALLY GOTTEN INTO THE
POLITICAL ASPECT OF THINGS

1110 01:00:11:00 --:--:--:--
BECAUSE I WASN'T PART OF
THAT SORT OF RADICAL GROUP OR

1111 01:00:14:12 --:--:--:--
FEELING THAT I NEEDED
TO BE DISSIDENT,

1112 01:00:17:09 --:--:--:--
BUT WHEN YOU GET
INTO THE POETRY,

1113 01:00:19:21 --:--:--:--
I MEAN, SOME OF IT IS
REALLY VERY, VERY CLEAR.

1114 01:00:24:10 --:--:--:--
THERE ARE A LOT OF VERY
CLEAR SYMBOLS THAT ELLA USES,

1115 01:00:27:19 --:--:--:--
FOR EXAMPLE,

1116 01:00:29:02 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, BUT A LOT ARE
METAPHORIC AND YOU HAVE TO

1117 01:00:31:11 --:--:--:--
LOOK AT THE SYMBOLS BEHIND
WHAT THE SYMBOLS MEAN.

1118 01:00:35:00 --:--:--:--
LIKE ELLA USING A TREE FOR A
DEAF CHILD AND SEEING IT GROW.

1119 01:00:39:28 --:--:--:--
IN HER OTHER POEM "THE DOOR" AND
"TO A HEARING MOTHER," I DIDN'T

1120 01:00:45:28 --:--:--:--
GET THEM AT ALL, AND NOW
I THINK THEY'RE

1121 01:00:47:27 --:--:--:--
INCREDIBLY PROFOUND.

1122 01:00:50:06 --:--:--:--
BECAUSE I HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH
THAT, AND I'VE SEEN IT NOW.

1123 01:00:53:17 01:00:56:00
I APPRECIATE THEM SO MUCH.

1124 01:00:57:15 --:--:--:--
ELLA AND VALLI BOTH WERE
VERY, VERY STRONG, YOU KNOW,

1125 01:01:03:07 --:--:--:--
WHICH IS GREAT.

1126 01:01:04:15 --:--:--:--
WE NEED THAT.

1127 01:01:05:28 01:01:08:13
BACK THEN, I WAS SORT
OF LIKE, "I DON'T KNOW."

1128 01:01:13:00 --:--:--:--
I DID NOT THINK THOSE ISSUES
WERE SO IMPORTANT, AND NOW I

1129 01:01:17:00 --:--:--:--
FEEL THAT THEY ARE INCREDIBLY
IMPORTANT AND PRECIOUS TO US.

1130 01:01:21:29 --:--:--:--
AND YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO HAVE
ISSUES BECAUSE THAT'S REALITY.

1131 01:01:27:00 --:--:--:--
I MEAN, YOU CAN'T SHOW IT EVERY
MOMENT, BUT WHAT'S REALLY

1132 01:01:30:05 --:--:--:--
IMPORTANT TO ME IS THAT I
THINK IT ASSUMES ALL THESE

1133 01:01:33:21 --:--:--:--
SORTS OF POLITICAL IDEATIONS
ARE THE LANGUAGES,

1134 01:01:37:06 --:--:--:--
THE LANGUAGE THAT WE USE.

1135 01:01:39:23 --:--:--:--
THE IDEAS AND DEAF IDENTITY
ISSUES ARE ALL WITHIN

1136 01:01:42:21 --:--:--:--
THE LANGUAGE.

1137 01:01:44:12 --:--:--:--
I THINK, COMPARED TO LIKE 20
YEARS AGO, THAT I'M MORE INTO

1138 01:01:49:10 --:--:--:--
THE TRANSFORMATION,
HAND SHAPE, MOVEMENT, PLAYING

1139 01:01:53:05 01:01:55:02
WITH THE LANGUAGE ITSELF.

1140 01:01:57:15 --:--:--:--
WRITING HAS ALL OF THESE
CONSTRUCTS, AND I FEEL THAT

1141 01:02:01:03 01:02:05:15
ASL HAS AN EXACT EQUALITY
TO ENGLISH WRITING.

1142 01:02:10:23 01:02:13:15
SO I FEEL THINGS HAVE CHANGED.

1143 01:02:15:00 --:--:--:--
YEAH. THAT IS RIGHT.

1144 01:02:17:20 --:--:--:--
THERE IS A LOSS OF CULTURE.

1145 01:02:19:21 --:--:--:--
USED TO HAVE THAT
STRONG DEAF IDENTITY.

1146 01:02:22:28 --:--:--:--
IT HASN'T BEEN THERE.

1147 01:02:24:15 01:02:27:05
IT'S GOTTA BE SOMEWHERE.
DO YOU HAVE IT?

1148 01:02:29:15 --:--:--:--
OH, YEAH, NO.

1149 01:02:31:05 --:--:--:--
I REMEMBER CLEARLY HOW
I CAME UP WITH THAT.

1150 01:02:33:20 --:--:--:--
BECAUSE IT WAS VERY SIMPLE.

1151 01:02:35:27 --:--:--:--
I REMEMBER I WAS TALKING TO
A FRIEND AND SOMEBODY SAID,

1152 01:02:38:19 --:--:--:--
"OH, POETRY.

1153 01:02:40:24 --:--:--:--
"WELL, THERE'S GESTURE AND THEN
THERE'S SIGNED ENGLISH, AND THEN

1154 01:02:43:28 --:--:--:--
THERE ARE ALL KINDS
OF LANGUAGES."

1155 01:02:45:27 --:--:--:--
AND I'M LIKE, "YEAH, BUT
YOU COULD TRY ASL POETRY."

1156 01:02:50:08 --:--:--:--
AND THEY SAID, "NO, I CAN'T DO
POETRY WITH THAT, WITH ASL."

1157 01:02:53:22 --:--:--:--
AND I WAS LIKE, "NO."

1158 01:02:55:14 --:--:--:--
I WANTED TO SHOW
SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

1159 01:02:58:05 --:--:--:--
I WANTED TO SHOW A DIFFERENT
WAY OF BEING AND A DIFFERENT

1160 01:03:01:04 --:--:--:--
WAY OF SHOWING LANGUAGE.

1161 01:03:02:23 --:--:--:--
AND I THOUGHT, "OH, GOING
FROM THE PAST TO THE FUTURE."

1162 01:03:06:16 --:--:--:--
THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO DO,

1163 01:03:09:03 --:--:--:--
GOING FROM THE PAST TO THE
FUTURE. SO ONE NIGHT, I STARTED

1164 01:03:11:28 --:--:--:--
TYPING SOMETHING UP ON THIS
OLD TYPEWRITER, AND I WAS ABLE

1165 01:03:16:01 --:--:--:--
TO COME UP WITH
THIS ONE THING.

1166 01:03:17:21 --:--:--:--
AND ONE NIGHT, OVERNIGHT,
AND IT WASN'T TAKING WEEKS

1167 01:03:20:15 --:--:--:--
OR ANYTHING.

1168 01:03:22:01 --:--:--:--
THAT WAS IT. ONE NIGHT
OF TOTAL CREATIVITY.

1169 01:03:25:08 --:--:--:--
OH, NO, WAIT. I HAVE TO
GO BACK FOR A MINUTE.

1170 01:03:27:25 --:--:--:--
NOW, WAIT A MINUTE.
THERE WAS THIS MOVIE,

1171 01:03:29:05 --:--:--:--
A JAPANESE MOVIE.

1172 01:03:31:00 --:--:--:--
I REMEMBER THE TITLE.
OH, WHAT WAS THAT?

1173 01:03:35:00 --:--:--:--
IT WAS THE MOVIE,

1174 01:03:36:24 --:--:--:--
AND IT HAD A STORY
IN A STORY. UM...

1175 01:03:41:01 --:--:--:--
NO, IT WASN'T "RASHOMON."

1176 01:03:43:18 --:--:--:--
OK, BUT THE WAY IT OPENED,
AND THIS WAS A TRUE STORY.

1177 01:03:47:15 --:--:--:--
THERE WAS A JAPANESE POET WHO
DECIDED TO TAKE OVER THE WHOLE

1178 01:03:50:26 --:--:--:--
COUNTRY, AND HE HAD HIS
OWN PRIVATE MILITIA.

1179 01:03:53:24 --:--:--:--
IT WAS IN 1960 OR
SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE.

1180 01:03:57:08 --:--:--:--
I DON'T MEMBER
THE POET'S NAME.

1181 01:03:58:28 --:--:--:--
AMISHA--MISHIMA?

1182 01:04:02:00 --:--:--:--
MISHIMA? MISHAMA?

1183 01:04:05:03 --:--:--:--
AND OH, MY GOD. IT WAS
JUST INCREDIBLE.

1184 01:04:08:15 --:--:--:--
SO THE MOVIE OPENS, AND
IT'S ALL IN BLACK AND WHITE.

1185 01:04:11:14 --:--:--:--
THERE'S THIS TOP-SECRET
MEETING WITH ALL OF THESE

1186 01:04:13:27 --:--:--:--
SUITS, AND THEY'RE MAKING
ALL THESE DECISIONS.

1187 01:04:16:24 --:--:--:--
AND THEN, THERE'S THIS OTHER
STORY IN THE MOVIE, AND ALL

1188 01:04:20:02 --:--:--:--
OF A SUDDEN IT'S IN COLOR.

1189 01:04:21:22 --:--:--:--
IT HAS THE NAME OF
THE STORY COME UP,

1190 01:04:23:15 --:--:--:--
AND THINGS START TO HAPPEN
WITHIN THIS VERY SWEET STORY.

1191 01:04:26:15 --:--:--:--
AND THEN IT GOES BACK TO
BLACK AND WHITE WITH THESE

1192 01:04:28:15 --:--:--:--
MILITIA GUYS TAKING
OVER THE COUNTRY.

1193 01:04:30:15 --:--:--:--
AND THEN IT GOES BACK TO THE
OTHER SWEET SORT OF STORY

1194 01:04:33:15 --:--:--:--
IN COLOR, AND IT GOES BACK AND
FORTH, AND SOMEBODY'S TAKING

1195 01:04:36:15 --:--:--:--
OVER, AND THEY REALIZE
THEY'RE GONNA FAIL.

1196 01:04:38:15 --:--:--:--
HE COMMITS HARAKIRI.

1197 01:04:40:12 --:--:--:--
SO THERE'S THE STORY IN THE
STORY, AND I'VE HELD ONTO THAT

1198 01:04:43:12 --:--:--:--
WHEN MY FRIEND WAS SAYING,
"ASL CAN'T REALLY DO POETRY."

1199 01:04:46:00 --:--:--:--
AND I THOUGHT, "I'M GONNA USE
THAT TECHNIQUE OF GOING

1200 01:04:48:00 --:--:--:--
BACK AND FORTH,
STORY TO STORY."

1201 01:04:50:15 --:--:--:--
START WITH THIS BOY
SORT OF BLOWING A HORN

1202 01:04:52:15 --:--:--:--
AS A CALL TO ARMS.

1203 01:04:54:00 --:--:--:--
AND THE STORY WILL HAPPEN
AND GO ALONG FOR A WHILE.

1204 01:04:56:15 --:--:--:--
AND IN THE FIRST PART WHERE
THESE PEOPLE DIGGING, AND THEY

1205 01:04:59:09 --:--:--:--
FOUND THIS BOX AND THEY LOOK
UP TO THE BOY WHO'S CALLING

1206 01:05:02:20 --:--:--:--
THESE SPIRITS TO COME OUT
AND TO TELL THEIR PART

1207 01:05:05:00 --:--:--:--
OF THE STORIES.

1208 01:05:06:22 --:--:--:--
SO I USED THAT TECHNIQUE
OF GOING BACK AND FORTH,

1209 01:05:09:00 --:--:--:--
PERSON-TO-PERSON, PUT IT
ALL TOGETHER IN ONE NIGHT.

1210 01:05:11:15 --:--:--:--
I MEAN, IT JUST
ALL CAME TOGETHER.

1211 01:05:14:25 --:--:--:--
YEAH, SAME HERE.

1212 01:05:16:16 --:--:--:--
I DON'T KNOW WHY
I USED A HORN.

1213 01:05:18:03 --:--:--:--
I GUESS IT'S BECAUSE IT'S
A BIG CALL, YOU KNOW.

1214 01:05:21:03 --:--:--:--
LIKE IT'S A STRONG ARCHETYPE.

1215 01:05:23:02 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, IT'S A UNIVERSAL.

1216 01:05:25:16 --:--:--:--
ANYBODY WITH A HORN WHO'S
DOING IT MEANS IT MUST BE

1217 01:05:28:06 --:--:--:--
AN EMERGENCY, YOU KNOW.

1218 01:05:29:27 --:--:--:--
PEOPLE HAVE TO PAY
ATTENTION AND LISTEN.

1219 01:05:32:21 --:--:--:--
WHEREAS DEAF PEOPLE
MIGHT'VE IGNORED IT

1220 01:05:34:15 --:--:--:--
IF THEY COULDN'T
HEAR IT, I GUESS.

1221 01:05:36:02 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE USING
A PIANO IN THE SCHOOL

1222 01:05:38:11 --:--:--:--
FOR THE DEAF OR SOMETHING.

1223 01:05:40:05 --:--:--:--
I FAILED. YOU'RE RIGHT.

1224 01:05:42:05 --:--:--:--
I USED THE WRONG
SYMBOL IN MY POEM.

1225 01:05:43:25 --:--:--:--
I NEVER REALIZED IT
ALL THESE YEARS.

1226 01:05:46:25 --:--:--:--
HA HA!
WELL, SEE?

1227 01:05:49:00 --:--:--:--
I WAS YOUNG. THAT'S
THE PROOF RIGHT THERE.

1228 01:05:51:26 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, I GUESS I'M NOT
ANY SMARTER THAN I AM NOW.

1229 01:05:56:15 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW.

1230 01:05:58:02 --:--:--:--
MAYBE THE BOY STANDS UP ON A
HILL AND HE TAKES A FLASHING

1231 01:06:00:25 --:--:--:--
LIGHT OR SOMETHING INSTEAD.

1232 01:06:03:04 --:--:--:--
EVERYBODY...OR DO YOU KNOW
A TEXT PAGER OR SOMETHING,

1233 01:06:06:12 --:--:--:--
SOME SORT OF FLASHING LIGHT.

1234 01:06:08:12 --:--:--:--
SMOKE SIGNALS, YOU
KNOW UPON A HILL.

1235 01:06:11:23 01:06:14:13
OH, THAT'S A GOOD ONE.
I SHOULD USE THAT.

1236 01:06:17:26 --:--:--:--
OH, YEAH. GOOD QUESTION.
WELL, I TOOK A CLASS WITH HIM.

1237 01:06:21:04 --:--:--:--
AND HE SHOWED ME
THIS HAIKU POEM.

1238 01:06:24:19 --:--:--:--
YEAH, IT WAS A WHOLE STORY
THAT I LOOKED AT.

1239 01:06:27:12 --:--:--:--
IT WAS ABOUT A FROG,
YOU KNOW, FROM JAPAN.

1240 01:06:31:02 --:--:--:--
SO WE WORKED ON THIS BECOMING
THE FROG AND HAVING IT JUMP

1241 01:06:34:07 --:--:--:--
AND LAND IN THE WATER.

1242 01:06:35:24 --:--:--:--
I REMEMBER WE TALKED ABOUT IT
BEING A SMALL PUDDLE INSTEAD

1243 01:06:38:17 --:--:--:--
OF A BIG LAKE OR WHATEVER.

1244 01:06:40:00 --:--:--:--
THAT'S WHAT I REMEMBER.

1245 01:06:41:10 --:--:--:--
HE SHOWED THIS FROG JUMPING
INTO SOMETHING SMALLER.

1246 01:06:44:04 --:--:--:--
AND WHEN I WATCHED HIS WORK,
I WAS SO AMAZED BY IT.

1247 01:06:47:19 --:--:--:--
THEN AT THE CONFERENCE, I COULD
SEE A WHOLE LOT OF HIS WORK.

1248 01:06:50:12 --:--:--:--
I'D ONLY SEEN A FEW THINGS
BEFORE, AND I WAS REALLY TAKEN

1249 01:06:53:05 --:--:--:--
WITH THE "SPACE SHUTTLE" POEM.

1250 01:06:55:02 --:--:--:--
AND WHEN THE SPACE SHUTTLE BLEW
UP, THAT HIS HEART ACTUALLY

1251 01:06:58:02 --:--:--:--
HAD A REACTION.

1252 01:06:59:17 --:--:--:--
THEN WHEN THE SPACE
SHUTTLE FELL, THE TEAR
FELL DOWN HIS FACE

1253 01:07:02:15 --:--:--:--
AT THE SAME TIME.

1254 01:07:04:07 --:--:--:--
VALLI INCORPORATES SOME OF
THOSE TECHNIQUES, TOO, LIKE

1255 01:07:06:29 --:--:--:--
IN THE OLD "SUMMER HOUSE" POEM.

1256 01:07:09:03 --:--:--:--
THE FIRE GOES UP, THE HOUSE
COMES DOWN, AND THEN EMOTIONS

1257 01:07:12:15 --:--:--:--
ARE UP AND DOWN.

1258 01:07:14:04 --:--:--:--
OTHER POEMS HE HAS, HE'S LIKE
VERY CIRCULAR MOVEMENTS WHERE

1259 01:07:17:24 --:--:--:--
THINGS GO UP, THINGS GO DOWN.

1260 01:07:19:13 --:--:--:--
HE HAS ALL KINDS OF MOVEMENTS
UP AND DOWN THAT CORRESPOND TO

1261 01:07:22:21 --:--:--:--
LINGUISTIC IDEAS.

1262 01:07:25:29 --:--:--:--
AND PATRICK, HE HAS THE SORT
OF BROAD TAKE ON THINGS.

1263 01:07:30:11 --:--:--:--
I REMEMBER THIS ONE POEM WHERE
HE'S SINGING, OH, MY MAN

1264 01:07:33:23 --:--:--:--
I THOUGHT THAT WAS
SO INTERESTING.

1265 01:07:35:16 --:--:--:--
HE DID A MUSICAL
THING IN SIGN.

1266 01:07:38:01 --:--:--:--
PLUS, HE'S DEAF, BUT THE MUSIC
SOMEHOW WAS SOMETHING THAT

1267 01:07:41:14 --:--:--:--
HE INCORPORATED.

1268 01:07:42:25 --:--:--:--
I THOUGHT THAT WAS
REALLY INTERESTING.

1269 01:07:45:04 --:--:--:--
I REMEMBER REALLY CLEARLY
HOW MEASURED AND CALM HE IS

1270 01:07:48:08 --:--:--:--
WITH HIS DELIVERY.

1271 01:07:49:21 --:--:--:--
SOFT, GENTLE HANDS, THE SIGN
VERY SMOOTH AND FLOWING.

1272 01:07:54:13 --:--:--:--
HIS HAND SHAPES ARE
REALLY, REALLY FINE.

1273 01:07:57:27 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, IF I WERE TO SHOW
HOW A PAINTER WOULD PAINT HIM,

1274 01:08:00:10 --:--:--:--
IT WOULD BE LIKE NOT
ALL OVER THE PLACE

1275 01:08:02:17 --:--:--:--
IN A FRENETIC WAY.

1276 01:08:04:09 --:--:--:--
ELLA WOULD BE LIKE CIRCULAR
LINES ON A CANVAS, BUT PATRICK

1277 01:08:08:09 --:--:--:--
MORE THE SWEET FLOWING THING.

1278 01:08:10:18 --:--:--:--
DEBBIE WOULD BE MORE FRENETIC
AND THEN STOPPING FOR A SECOND

1279 01:08:15:03 --:--:--:--
AND THEN EVERYBODY GETS IT AND
THEN FRENETIC AGAIN AND THEN

1280 01:08:17:20 --:--:--:--
SLOWLY CHANGING SHAPES AND
BEING MORE LIKE A RAINBOW,

1281 01:08:21:21 --:--:--:--
BUT THEN BEING MORE IN
AND OUT OF THE LINES.

1282 01:08:27:04 --:--:--:--
AND VALLI, IF YOU WERE TO
SHOW HIM AS A PAINTER, HE'D BE

1283 01:08:29:15 --:--:--:--
WHERE THIS VERY
FLOWING, GRACEFUL WAY

1284 01:08:32:06 --:--:--:--
OF SHOWING HANDS AND THEN
PRESENTING IT TO THE AUDIENCE

1285 01:08:35:13 --:--:--:--
AND MAKING A SORT OF APPEAL TO
THE AUDIENCE WHO'S BECOMING PART

1286 01:08:38:15 --:--:--:--
OF HIS WORK.

1287 01:08:40:03 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, FOR ME, I'D JUST THROW
THE PAINT AT THE AUDIENCE

1288 01:08:43:01 01:08:44:22
AND IT WOULD GO ALL OVER THEM.

1289 01:08:49:15 --:--:--:--
OR MAYBE I COULD TAKE A
BUCKET OF PAINT AND DUMP IT

1290 01:08:52:15 --:--:--:--
ON MY HEAD.

1291 01:08:55:15 --:--:--:--
BERNARD BRAGG?

1292 01:08:59:17 --:--:--:--
WELL, HIS POEMS WOULD BE
MORE...MEASURED AND VERY

1293 01:09:04:18 --:--:--:--
RHYTHMIC, LIKE MUSIC
IN A SENSE, UP AND DOWN,

1294 01:09:08:06 --:--:--:--
UP AND DOWN,

1295 01:09:09:25 01:09:11:11
THAT KIND OF THING.

1296 01:09:15:00 --:--:--:--
WELL, LIKE I WAS SAYING
BEFORE, DEBBIE AND KENNY AND I

1297 01:09:18:16 --:--:--:--
LIVED TOGETHER, SO IT MEANS WE
WERE EXPOSING EACH OTHER EVERY

1298 01:09:21:16 --:--:--:--
DAY TO DO THIS, YOU KNOW,
PLAYING WITH IDEAS, AND OFTEN,

1299 01:09:26:12 --:--:--:--
WELL, SOMETIMES I'D BE COOKING
OR WE WOULD JUST STOP WHAT

1300 01:09:29:16 --:--:--:--
WE WERE DOING AND START PLAYING
AND PERFORMING TOGETHER--

1301 01:09:32:15 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, VERY
PHYSICAL ALL THE TIME.

1302 01:09:36:00 --:--:--:--
AND KENNY AND DEBBIE MIGHT
DO SOME WORK TOGETHER, AND I

1303 01:09:39:17 --:--:--:--
WOULDN'T BE PART OF THAT MIX,
BUT THEN KENNY WOULDN'T BE

1304 01:09:42:00 --:--:--:--
SATISFIED WITH THE WAY DEBBIE
WAS DOING SOMETHING, AND HE

1305 01:09:45:07 --:--:--:--
WOULD COME TO ME AND I WOULD
GIVE AN IDEA, AND THEN I'D

1306 01:09:48:02 --:--:--:--
BECOME PART OF IT,
OR THE OPPOSITE WOULD HAPPEN.

1307 01:09:51:01 --:--:--:--
HE AND I WEREN'T CONNECTING
IN TERMS OF AN IDEA, BUT HE

1308 01:09:53:24 --:--:--:--
AND DEBBIE WOULD, SO IT WAS
SORT OF THIS 3-WAY SORT

1309 01:09:56:15 --:--:--:--
OF INTERSECTION.
I MEAN, IT WAS GREAT!

1310 01:10:00:12 --:--:--:--
TENDED TO BE THE THREE OF US,
BUT SOMETIMES IT WOULD BE

1311 01:10:02:19 --:--:--:--
DEBBIE AND KENNY, AND SOMETIMES
IT WOULD BE ME AND KENNY

1312 01:10:05:11 --:--:--:--
AND SOMETIMES ME AND DEBBIE.

1313 01:10:07:07 --:--:--:--
I MEAN, THINGS WOULD
CHANGE OVER TIME.

1314 01:10:10:03 --:--:--:--
I REMEMBER ONE POEM, "PAINTING
RAINBOW" OR SOMETHING. IT WAS

1315 01:10:15:06 --:--:--:--
LIKE A LADDER OR SOMETHING,
THROWING PAINT ON THE SKY.

1316 01:10:18:16 --:--:--:--
I REMEMBER
SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

1317 01:10:20:09 --:--:--:--
I REMEMBER IT WAS
VERY ABSTRACT.

1318 01:10:21:26 --:--:--:--
WE CAME UP WITH THIS IDEA.
AND WITH KENNY, IT BECAME MORE

1319 01:10:25:07 --:--:--:--
IMAGERY, BECAME MORE OF A
PICTURE, AND THERE WAS ALSO

1320 01:10:28:15 --:--:--:--
A POLITICAL ELEMENT.

1321 01:10:30:17 --:--:--:--
AND THEN OF COURSE ESPECIALLY
WITH MISSING CHILDREN, IT WAS

1322 01:10:33:28 --:--:--:--
VERY POLITICAL.

1323 01:10:35:10 --:--:--:--
AND OF COURSE, THEN THERE WAS
"RAPE CHOCOLATE," AND YOU KNOW

1324 01:10:38:14 --:--:--:--
THE CALF POEM, THAT WORD
POEM THAT DEBBIE DID

1325 01:10:42:26 --:--:--:--
REALLY INCORPORATED A LOT
OF HER PERSONAL VIEWS INTO

1326 01:10:45:28 --:--:--:--
HER POETRY.

1327 01:10:47:17 --:--:--:--
I THINK I WAS A BIT
MORE GENERAL THAN THAT.

1328 01:10:50:24 --:--:--:--
IT WASN'T QUITE SO PERSONAL.

1329 01:10:52:27 --:--:--:--
I WOULD LOOK AT THESE ISSUES,
BUT SHE WAS ALWAYS, WELL,

1330 01:10:57:13 --:--:--:--
SOMETHING THAT WAS MORE
PERSONAL TO HER THAT SHE

1331 01:10:59:18 --:--:--:--
NEEDED TO EXPRESS.

1332 01:11:01:11 --:--:--:--
HER TEXTURE WAS
DIFFERENT THAN MINE.

1333 01:11:03:21 --:--:--:--
HER TIMING WAS
DIFFERENT THAN MINE.

1334 01:11:06:00 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, SLOW MOTION. I LOVE
HER SLOW MOTION, ESPECIALLY

1335 01:11:10:04 --:--:--:--
IN MISSING CHILDREN
IN SOUTH AFRICA.

1336 01:11:12:21 --:--:--:--
THE MAN IS CARRYING
THE COFFIN OF HIS CHILD,
AND WHEN HE'S SHOT

1337 01:11:16:15 --:--:--:--
AND HIS EXPRESSION AS THE
BULLETS HIT HIM WAS SLOW MOTION.

1338 01:11:20:26 --:--:--:--
HIS WHOLE BODY CONTORTS.

1339 01:11:22:22 --:--:--:--
THEN THERE'S THIS OTHER POEM
THAT SHE AND I DID TOGETHER

1340 01:11:25:10 --:--:--:--
CALLED "HAMBURG."

1341 01:11:27:00 --:--:--:--
IT'S A SIMPLE STORY. IT'S
ABOUT A LOUSY RELATIONSHIP.

1342 01:11:29:28 --:--:--:--
THEY HAVE A FIGHT.
THEY'RE DRIVING IN THE CAR.

1343 01:11:32:13 --:--:--:--
HE HAS THIS BAD BLOWUP AND
THE GUY THROWS A HAMBURGER

1344 01:11:34:15 --:--:--:--
AT HIS GIRLFRIEND,

1345 01:11:36:00 --:--:--:--
AND HE PUNCHES THE WINDOW,
THE WINDSHIELD, AND BREAKS IT.

1346 01:11:39:20 --:--:--:--
REALLY SIMPLE.
NOT MUCH TO IT.

1347 01:11:41:19 --:--:--:--
BUT IT'S LIKE A MOVIE.

1348 01:11:43:03 --:--:--:--
IF YOU'RE SITTING IN AN
EDITING ROOM, YOU SAY,

1349 01:11:45:00 --:--:--:--
"OK, I'LL TAKE THAT PART AND
COPY AND PASTE OVER HERE.

1350 01:11:48:09 --:--:--:--
THEN I'LL HAVE TO REPEAT
THIS OVER AND OVER AGAIN."

1351 01:11:51:05 --:--:--:--
AND WHEN I WATCH THE DVD AND I
SAW THAT AGAIN, IT WAS SO COOL

1352 01:11:55:01 --:--:--:--
BECAUSE IN THE BEGINNING
WE WERE OPPOSITE MOVEMENTS.

1353 01:11:57:23 --:--:--:--
AND THEN WE WERE TOGETHER.

1354 01:11:59:02 --:--:--:--
AND WE COPY EACH OTHER.
THEN WE GO BACK AND FORTH.

1355 01:12:01:17 --:--:--:--
SO IT'S LIKE A MICRO TO
MACRO TO MICRO AGAIN.

1356 01:12:04:24 --:--:--:--
AND IT'S ALL IN THE EDITING.

1357 01:12:06:10 --:--:--:--
IT'S LIKE THE ART OF THE
EDITING FOR THE WHOLE THING.

1358 01:12:09:00 --:--:--:--
THAT WAS A FASCINATING
TECHNIQUE.

1359 01:12:13:14 --:--:--:--
WELL, FIRST, SHE CAME UP
WITH HER OWN STORY,

1360 01:12:16:08 --:--:--:--
THE BACK AND FORTH
AND THE BACK AND FORTH.

1361 01:12:18:22 --:--:--:--
THAT WAS ALL HER, AND THEN,
YOU KNOW, HOW IT WOULD JOIN.

1362 01:12:22:14 --:--:--:--
AND THEN WE WOULD PLAY WITH
THAT, AND WE'D GO BACK AND FORTH

1363 01:12:25:00 --:--:--:--
AND THEN WE REALIZED
WE WOULD SHATTER

1364 01:12:26:19 --:--:--:--
THE WINDSHIELD TOGETHER.

1365 01:12:28:07 --:--:--:--
AND THEN IT BECAME THIS DUET.

1366 01:12:30:05 --:--:--:--
AT FIRST I SAID, "YES! WOW!
WE CAN WORK TOGETHER.

1367 01:12:33:13 --:--:--:--
THAT'S GREAT."

1368 01:12:35:01 --:--:--:--
I THINK WE JUST DID 2 OR 3
POEMS TOGETHER OVER TIME.

1369 01:12:38:00 --:--:--:--
IT WAS WONDERFUL.

1370 01:12:40:05 --:--:--:--
I BECAME REALLY INTO REALIZING
THAT SIGN LANGUAGE POETRY

1371 01:12:43:11 --:--:--:--
DIDN'T HAVE TO JUST BE ONE.

1372 01:12:45:00 --:--:--:--
IT COULD BE 2, IT COULD BE 3.
IT COULD BE A GROUP POEM.

1373 01:12:48:12 --:--:--:--
I REALLY GOT INTO
THAT IDEA LATER.

1374 01:12:50:17 --:--:--:--
THEN WE HAD TO DEAL WITH THE
IDEA OF "BRIDGE OF" AND THAT'S

1375 01:12:53:12 --:--:--:--
HOW THAT CAME ABOUT,

1376 01:12:54:25 --:--:--:--
TRYING TO COME UP
WITH IDEAS FOR A SHOW.

1377 01:12:56:24 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE ONE HOUR.

1378 01:12:58:16 --:--:--:--
YOU HAVE ONE PERSON WHO'S GONNA
DO THE WHOLE THING, AND IT

1379 01:13:01:03 --:--:--:--
DOESN'T MATTER HOW GOOD YOU
ARE OR HOW WONDERFUL YOU ARE.

1380 01:13:04:16 --:--:--:--
I MEAN,
IT'S REALLY HARD TO KEEP

1381 01:13:06:06 --:--:--:--
AN AUDIENCE ENGAGED FOR
AN HOUR WHEN YOU HAVE

1382 01:13:08:26 --:--:--:--
THE SAME SORT OF LEVEL.

1383 01:13:10:14 --:--:--:--
YOU GOTTA BUILD MOMENTUM.

1384 01:13:12:02 --:--:--:--
YOU HAVE TO TAKE THEM UP AND
DOWN AND UP AND DOWN AND KEEP

1385 01:13:15:02 --:--:--:--
THINGS FUNNY AND THEN SAD AND
THEN MYSTERIOUS OR WHATEVER.

1386 01:13:18:20 --:--:--:--
AND YOU HAVE TO GIVE REST TO
THE EYES BY CHANGING THE PACE

1387 01:13:21:11 --:--:--:--
OF THINGS.

1388 01:13:22:22 --:--:--:--
SO WITH "BRIDGE OF," WE HAD
ONE PERSON COME UP, THEN TWO,

1389 01:13:26:00 --:--:--:--
THEN ALL OF US, AND THEN ONE.
JIM WAS INVOLVED WITH THAT.

1390 01:13:29:15 --:--:--:--
AND DEBBIE WAS IN ON IT, TOO,
AND THEN THEY WOULD TAKE TURNS.

1391 01:13:32:10 --:--:--:--
IT WAS MORE LIKE WHEN THEY ASKED
ME. "OH, SURE, SURE, I'LL JOIN."

1392 01:13:35:15 --:--:--:--
BUT I REALLY DID NOT HAVE
THE LAY OF THE LAND

1393 01:13:38:00 --:--:--:--
IN THE BEGINNING.

1394 01:13:39:12 01:13:41:20
I WASN'T SURE IF I WAS
GOOD ENOUGH TO BE IN IT.

1395 01:13:45:15 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, IT WAS AN ATTEMPT
TO BRING THE DEAF AND HEARING

1396 01:13:48:04 --:--:--:--
WORLDS TOGETHER IN THE
SENSE OF PARITY, EQUALITY,

1397 01:13:51:07 --:--:--:--
AND MUTUAL RESPECT.

1398 01:13:52:22 --:--:--:--
AND I DON'T THINK IT REALLY
WORKED OUT THAT WAY TO TELL

1399 01:13:54:28 --:--:--:--
YOU THE TRUTH.

1400 01:13:57:28 --:--:--:--
I'VE REALIZED THAT EITHER THE
HEARING WORLD OR THE DEAF WORLD,

1401 01:14:01:01 --:--:--:--
ONE OF THE OTHER HAS
TO MAKE CONCESSIONS TO JOIN

1402 01:14:03:15 --:--:--:--
THE OTHERS.

1403 01:14:04:28 --:--:--:--
BUT TO HAVE THIS EXACT
EQUALITY WON'T WORK

1404 01:14:08:09 --:--:--:--
BECAUSE THE SITUATION REQUIRES
THAT SOMEBODY GIVE A LITTLE

1405 01:14:11:01 01:14:13:18
BIT MORE THAN SOMEBODY ELSE.

1406 01:14:15:00 --:--:--:--
IF SOMETHING IS OBVIOUSLY DEAF-
SENSITIVE OR IF TWO HEARING

1407 01:14:18:12 --:--:--:--
PEOPLE ARE TALKING, AND CAN
SIGN BUT THEY DON'T, A DEAF

1408 01:14:21:20 --:--:--:--
PERSON COMES UP, IF THEY
DECIDE TO SPEAK IN FRONT

1409 01:14:24:22 --:--:--:--
OF A DEAF PERSON,
THEN THEY'RE MAKING A DECISION

1410 01:14:26:22 --:--:--:--
FOR EXCLUSION.

1411 01:14:28:02 --:--:--:--
THERE BEING RUDE.

1412 01:14:29:21 --:--:--:--
I MEAN,
THAT'S A CULTURAL NORM, RIGHT?

1413 01:14:31:17 --:--:--:--
YOU NEED TO SHOW RESPECT,
AND HEARING PEOPLE MIGHT

1414 01:14:34:14 --:--:--:--
REQUIRE PARITY IN
A DIFFERENT WAY.

1415 01:14:37:02 --:--:--:--
"BRIDGE OF" ENVISIONED THIS KIND
OF PARITY THAT WE WERE ABLE

1416 01:14:40:07 --:--:--:--
TO PROPAGATE,

1417 01:14:41:24 --:--:--:--
BUT IT REALLY DIDN'T
WORK OUT THAT WAY.

1418 01:14:44:00 --:--:--:--
WE WILL BE EXACTLY THE SAME.

1419 01:14:46:22 --:--:--:--
WE WILL COME UP WITH OUR OWN
NORMS AND CULTURAL VALUES.

1420 01:14:49:25 --:--:--:--
AND CREATE A THIRD WORLD,

1421 01:14:51:24 --:--:--:--
BUT IT JUST DIDN'T
WORK THAT WAY.

1422 01:14:53:24 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T IGNORE
THE VALUES OF EITHER GROUP

1423 01:14:56:08 --:--:--:--
AT THE EXPENSE OF CREATING
THIS THING THAT DOESN'T EXIST

1424 01:14:59:00 --:--:--:--
IN THE MIDDLE.

1425 01:15:00:10 --:--:--:--
BUT I DO FEEL THAT "BRIDGE OF"
WAS A GREAT EXERCISE

1426 01:15:02:20 --:--:--:--
AND EXPERIMENT BECAUSE IT
MADE US LOOK AT OURSELVES.

1427 01:15:05:23 --:--:--:--
IT MADE US CONFRONT
CERTAIN THINGS WITHIN US.

1428 01:15:09:01 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE WAYS I
COULD MATCH WITH DEBBIE BETTER,

1429 01:15:11:27 --:--:--:--
AND IN SOME WAYS, I COULD
MATCH BETTER WITH KENNY.

1430 01:15:14:21 --:--:--:--
WE ALL WENT OUR SEPARATE WAYS
FROM THIS GROUP AND WE ALL

1431 01:15:17:01 --:--:--:--
BECAME MORE OF WHO WE ARE.

1432 01:15:18:26 --:--:--:--
JIM MOVED ON, DEBBIE MOVED ON,
KENNY AND I MOVED ON.

1433 01:15:22:16 --:--:--:--
EVERYBODY SORT OF MOVED ON
IN THEIR OWN WAY.

1434 01:15:25:08 --:--:--:--
AND THIS TIME WAS SORT OF
A REALIZATION, AN IMPETUS

1435 01:15:28:29 --:--:--:--
FOR ALL OF US TO BECOME MORE
OF THE INDIVIDUALS WE WERE

1436 01:15:31:00 01:15:32:15
TO BECOME.

1437 01:15:34:15 --:--:--:--
NOW, AS A STUDENT DURING
THE FIRST POETRY CONFERENCE.

1438 01:15:39:14 --:--:--:--
YES, RIGHT, STILL A STUDENT.

1439 01:15:42:02 --:--:--:--
YEAH, I WAS STILL A STUDENT.

1440 01:15:46:02 --:--:--:--
THAT'S RIGHT, I WAS TAKING ART
CLASSES, I WAS DOING POSTERS,

1441 01:15:50:14 --:--:--:--
ADVERTISING, CREATING POETRY,
DOING ALL OF IT--ALL AT ONCE

1442 01:15:54:05 --:--:--:--
AT THE SAME TIME, KIND OF
LIKE MY LIFE TODAY.

1443 01:15:56:22 --:--:--:--
I MEAN, I'M A TEACHER.
I TEACH CLASSES FULL TIME.

1444 01:15:59:10 --:--:--:--
I TRAVEL ON THE WEEKENDS,
I'M A FATHER.

1445 01:16:01:11 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, WHERE'S THE TIME?

1446 01:16:02:28 01:16:05:15
IT'S SOMETHING THAT I DO.
IT HASN'T CHANGED.

1447 01:16:07:00 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, AT THAT TIME--
LET ME JUMP AHEAD

1448 01:16:10:00 --:--:--:--
A LITTLE BIT.

1449 01:16:11:11 --:--:--:--
ROCHESTER WAS A REAL HOTBED OF
ACTIVITY, AND WE WERE ABLE TO

1450 01:16:14:08 --:--:--:--
GET SOME GRANT MONEY.

1451 01:16:15:26 --:--:--:--
PEOPLE WERE STARTING TO
RECOGNIZE THIS DEAF POETRY

1452 01:16:18:15 --:--:--:--
STUFF WAS REALLY COOL.

1453 01:16:20:07 --:--:--:--
AND AT THE TIME, IT
WAS CALLED DEAF POETRY.

1454 01:16:22:23 --:--:--:--
IT WASN'T CALLED
ASL POETRY YET.

1455 01:16:25:10 --:--:--:--
SO THERE WERE ARTICLES IN
THE NEWSPAPERS, MAINSTREAM

1456 01:16:28:00 --:--:--:--
ROCHESTER PRESS ACTUALLY HAD
STUFF ABOUT US, AND THINGS

1457 01:16:31:10 --:--:--:--
WERE REALLY HAPPENING.

1458 01:16:33:03 --:--:--:--
AND ABOUT THAT TIME, I MOVED TO
CHICAGO. WHEN I GOT HERE,

1459 01:16:35:26 --:--:--:--
I THOUGHT, "WOW, LET'S
SET UP THE SCENE HERE."

1460 01:16:38:25 --:--:--:--
SO I STARTED ADVERTISING.

1461 01:16:40:22 --:--:--:--
THERE WAS A BAR THAT AGREED
TO LET US USE THEIR STAGE.

1462 01:16:43:28 --:--:--:--
I GOT SOME ADS AROUND.

1463 01:16:45:13 --:--:--:--
NOBODY CAME.

1464 01:16:47:15 --:--:--:--
THAT'S WHEN IT REALLY HIT ME.

1465 01:16:49:13 --:--:--:--
"WOW, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING
ENDEMIC TO THE WHOLE U.S.

1466 01:16:54:26 --:--:--:--
"THIS IS SOMETHING
SPECIFIC TO ROCHESTER,

1467 01:16:58:25 --:--:--:--
"NO PLACE ELSE.

1468 01:17:00:09 --:--:--:--
NO OTHER PLACE IN THE U.S.
EXCEPT ROCHESTER HAD THIS."

1469 01:17:03:11 --:--:--:--
THAT'S WHAT WAS HAPPENING.

1470 01:17:05:04 --:--:--:--
IT WAS THERE, AND
I DIDN'T KNOW.

1471 01:17:06:26 --:--:--:--
IT WAS REALLY UNIQUE.

1472 01:17:10:17 01:17:12:00
OHH!

1473 01:17:16:27 --:--:--:--
OH, OF COURSE,
I WAS VERY FRUSTRATED WHEN I

1474 01:17:19:00 --:--:--:--
GOT TO CHICAGO.

1475 01:17:20:19 --:--:--:--
I MEAN, MY ART WAS GONE.
IT WAS MISSING.

1476 01:17:22:13 --:--:--:--
ALL OF MY WORK, YOU KNOW,
I WAS WORKING THIS SH--JOB,

1477 01:17:26:00 --:--:--:--
AND I DIDN'T WANT TO DO THAT.

1478 01:17:29:00 --:--:--:--
IT WAS LIKE I HAD TO START
ALL OVER AGAIN, SO I STARTED

1479 01:17:32:17 --:--:--:--
TEACHING POETRY.

1480 01:17:34:03 --:--:--:--
AND THAT'S WHERE I FELT LIKE
I WAS BECOMING MYSELF AGAIN.

1481 01:17:37:00 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, LIKE I WOULD WORK
DURING THE WEEK, AND THEN I'D

1482 01:17:39:27 --:--:--:--
BE ABLE TO SHOW MY WORK
ON THE WEEKEND,

1483 01:17:41:29 --:--:--:--
AND IT FELT MORE
LIKE ROCHESTER,

1484 01:17:45:06 --:--:--:--
TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO
COME AND WATCH EVERYTHING.

1485 01:17:49:03 --:--:--:--
THEN I STARTED TRAVELING
AROUND A LITTLE BIT.

1486 01:17:51:06 --:--:--:--
I'D GO TO PLACES, AND I'D SORT
OF TOUCH AND SHOW THINGS

1487 01:17:54:17 --:--:--:--
AND THEN LEAVE AND HOPEFULLY
PEOPLE WOULD PICK IT UP.

1488 01:17:58:00 --:--:--:--
I WORKED IN QUEENS AT THE
FANWOOD SCHOOL FOR 3 OR 4 YEARS

1489 01:18:01:14 --:--:--:--
ON AN ONGOING BASIS.

1490 01:18:03:11 --:--:--:--
I'D START WITH THESE YOUNG
KIDS, YOU KNOW, AND EVERY YEAR

1491 01:18:06:12 --:--:--:--
I WOULD TEACH THEM MORE AND
MORE AND MORE SOPHISTICATION

1492 01:18:09:15 --:--:--:--
AS THE YEARS WENT BY,

1493 01:18:11:00 --:--:--:--
AND THEY WERE DOING REALLY WELL.

1494 01:18:13:04 --:--:--:--
SO I BROUGHT THEM, I THINK IT
WAS TO THE THIRD CONFERENCE

1495 01:18:16:00 --:--:--:--
OR WHATEVER IT WAS,

1496 01:18:17:10 --:--:--:--
AND THESE KIDS DID
SUCH GREAT WORK.

1497 01:18:20:00 --:--:--:--
I WAS SO PROUD OF THEM.

1498 01:18:22:15 --:--:--:--
IT WAS GROUP HOMES. IT WAS
ONE-ON-ONE, IT WAS ALL KINDS

1499 01:18:25:15 --:--:--:--
OF VARIETY THINGS, AND I THINK
NTD, I THINK ACTUALLY TAPED

1500 01:18:30:16 --:--:--:--
THAT SHOW.

1501 01:18:32:08 --:--:--:--
AND SOMEONE IN THE
AUDIENCE ASKED A QUESTION.

1502 01:18:34:09 --:--:--:--
HE SAID, "YOU
GUYS ARE SO GREAT.

1503 01:18:35:18 --:--:--:--
"HOW DID YOU LEARN THIS?

1504 01:18:37:01 --:--:--:--
"HOW DID YOU LEARN
TO BE SO CLEAR?

1505 01:18:38:09 --:--:--:--
HOW DID YOU LEARN
THESE TECHNIQUES?"

1506 01:18:40:00 --:--:--:--
AND ONE OF THE STUDENTS,
I THINK HIS NAME WAS LARRY,

1507 01:18:43:01 --:--:--:--
THIS BLACK KID SAID,
"I LEARNED FROM YOU

1508 01:18:46:03 --:--:--:--
"AND YOU AND YOU.

1509 01:18:47:25 --:--:--:--
"I LEARNED FROM VALLI,
I LEARNED FROM ELLA, I LEARNED

1510 01:18:50:11 --:--:--:--
"FROM PATRICK GRAYBILL,
I LEARNED FROM PETER COOK.

1511 01:18:53:01 --:--:--:--
"I LEARNED FROM YOU.

1512 01:18:54:15 --:--:--:--
YOU WERE MY TEACHERS."

1513 01:18:55:27 --:--:--:--
IT WAS SO TOUCHING.

1514 01:18:57:09 01:18:59:17
I THOUGHT, "THAT'S
WHAT WE NEED."

1515 01:19:04:00 --:--:--:--
SO WHO PERFORMS?
WHO TAKES THIS WORK ON?

1516 01:19:07:00 --:--:--:--
WE NEED THAT.
PEOPLE NEED TO DO IT.

1517 01:19:10:11 --:--:--:--
IT NEEDS TO BE IN
THE WORLD EVERY DAY.

1518 01:19:12:15 01:19:14:19
AND OFTEN, WE FORGET THAT.

1519 01:19:19:00 --:--:--:--
I REMEMBER JOE WAS RUNNING A
SMALL PUBLISHER'S CONFERENCE,

1520 01:19:23:04 --:--:--:--
AND I THINK THERE WEREN'T TOO
MANY PEOPLE THERE, YOU KNOW.

1521 01:19:26:27 --:--:--:--
AND WE PERFORMED, AND I THINK
I WAS--MADE, OH, MAYBE $25.

1522 01:19:33:07 --:--:--:--
I SAID, "OH, GREAT.

1523 01:19:34:26 --:--:--:--
I DON'T CARE.
$25. GREAT."

1524 01:19:37:15 --:--:--:--
I WAS A LANGUAGE SLUT.

1525 01:19:41:00 --:--:--:--
THAT'S WHAT I CALLED MYSELF.
A LANGUAGE SLUT.

1526 01:19:44:10 --:--:--:--
YES, I AM A LANGUAGE SLUT,
AND I AM PROUD OF IT!

1527 01:19:50:11 --:--:--:--
ANYWAY, YEAH, I REMEMBER WE
AGREED TO GO PERFORM FOR THIS

1528 01:19:54:01 --:--:--:--
SMALL PUBLISHER'S CONFERENCE,
AND WE PERFORMED "CHARLIE"

1529 01:19:58:18 --:--:--:--
ABOUT A DOG DURING
THE VIETNAM WAR.

1530 01:20:01:16 --:--:--:--
VERY STRONG POEM THAT KENNY
AND I HAD COLLABORATED ON.

1531 01:20:05:04 --:--:--:--
WE'D COME UP WITH A LOT OF
STUFF, BUT THIS WAS A VERY

1532 01:20:07:26 --:--:--:--
STRONG ONE.

1533 01:20:09:05 --:--:--:--
PLUS, IT WAS LIKE A
LEARNING TOOL FOR US.

1534 01:20:11:24 --:--:--:--
WE WERE USING NEW TECHNIQUES
THAT WE HAD NEVER USED BEFORE.

1535 01:20:14:27 --:--:--:--
SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, YOU DO A
POEM AND THEN YOU DO IT AGAIN

1536 01:20:17:20 --:--:--:--
AND AGAIN, AND IT TAKES
A WHILE TO UNDERSTAND IT.

1537 01:20:20:14 --:--:--:--
BUT THEN YOU KIND OF TOP OUT.

1538 01:20:22:05 --:--:--:--
BUT THIS ONE, I STILL LEARN
FROM EVERY DAY WITH THIS POEM.

1539 01:20:26:03 --:--:--:--
ANYWAY, WE PERFORMED THIS
POEM TO THE AUDIENCE, AND WHEN

1540 01:20:28:27 --:--:--:--
WE'RE DONE, WE MET A
LOT OF PEOPLE.

1541 01:20:30:22 --:--:--:--
AND THIS ONE GUY
COMES UP TO US.

1542 01:20:32:11 --:--:--:--
HIS NAME WAS
GREGORY KOLOVAKOS.

1543 01:20:35:15 --:--:--:--
AND HE SAID, "HELLO, MY
NAME IS GREGORY, AND I WORK

1544 01:20:37:24 --:--:--:--
"FOR THE NEW YORK ARTS COUNCIL.

1545 01:20:41:00 --:--:--:--
I'M IN THE LIT DIVISION, AND
I'D LIKE TO GIVE YOU MONEY."

1546 01:20:44:00 --:--:--:--
I SAID,
"SURE, LAY IT ON ME.

1547 01:20:45:26 --:--:--:--
I'LL TAKE IT."

1548 01:20:47:09 --:--:--:--
HE SAID, "NO, I'M SERIOUS.

1549 01:20:49:13 --:--:--:--
"I CAN GET YOU GRANTS.
I WANT TO GIVE YOU MONEY.

1550 01:20:52:15 --:--:--:--
IF YOU WRITE A GRANT WE'LL
GIVE YOU THE MONEY FOR IT."

1551 01:20:55:15 --:--:--:--
I SAID,
"WELL, WE'VE NEVER REALLY

1552 01:20:57:00 --:--:--:--
WRITTEN GRANTS BEFORE.
WE DON'T HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE."

1553 01:20:59:10 --:--:--:--
AND HE SAID,
"WELL, I'LL HELP YOU."

1554 01:21:00:25 --:--:--:--
AND SURE ENOUGH, HE FLIES TO
ROCHESTER, SITS DOWN WITH US,

1555 01:21:05:03 --:--:--:--
WALKS US THROUGH THE WHOLE
PROCESS, TEACHES US EVERY

1556 01:21:08:08 --:--:--:--
LITTLE IN-AND-OUT, YOU
KNOW, AND HE SAID WHERE
WE NEEDED TO COME UP

1557 01:21:10:18 --:--:--:--
WITH AN ORGANIZATION NAME,
AND IT WOULD BE

1558 01:21:12:24 --:--:--:--
A NONPROFIT OR WHATEVER.

1559 01:21:14:09 --:--:--:--
AND THEN WE'LL GIVE
YOU THE MONEY.

1560 01:21:16:01 --:--:--:--
SO WE WROTE THIS THING.

1561 01:21:17:12 --:--:--:--
HE FLEW OUT, GAVE IT TO HIS
COMMITTEE AND SAID, "APPROVE

1562 01:21:20:05 --:--:--:--
THESE GUYS RIGHT NOW.

1563 01:21:22:09 --:--:--:--
I WANT TO GIVE THEM MONEY."

1564 01:21:24:05 --:--:--:--
AND IT WAS APPROVED
JUST LIKE THAT.

1565 01:21:26:14 --:--:--:--
THEY GAVE US $10,000, AND
IT WAS FOR DEAF POETRY

1566 01:21:29:15 --:--:--:--
IN ROCHESTER

1567 01:21:31:04 01:21:33:08
SO WE COULD BRING
OTHER DEAF POETS IN.

1568 01:21:36:15 --:--:--:--
WE BROUGHT MALZ IN.

1569 01:21:38:11 01:21:42:02
WE BROUGHT IN SERGE BRIERE
AND JOHANNA BOULANGER.

1570 01:21:44:25 --:--:--:--
AW, YEAH.
BLESS THEM.

1571 01:21:46:14 --:--:--:--
SERGE IS GONE, BUT AW, MAN, HE
WAS AMAZING, AN AMAZING PERSON.

1572 01:21:51:15 --:--:--:--
I MET HIM AT THE
NTD SUMMER SCHOOL.

1573 01:21:55:00 --:--:--:--
IT WAS GREAT.

1574 01:21:56:15 --:--:--:--
I MEAN, THE WAY
I RECOGNIZED AND THE WAY

1575 01:21:58:16 --:--:--:--
HE TOOK MY ATTENTION WAS WE
WERE IN THIS ACTING CLASS,

1576 01:22:01:25 --:--:--:--
AND THE TEACHER GAVE US A
SCRIPT AND SAID, "I WANT YOU

1577 01:22:04:28 --:--:--:--
TO SHOW THIS."

1578 01:22:06:20 --:--:--:--
SERGE CAME UP TO ME, AND HE
DIDN'T ACT. WHAT HE DID WAS

1579 01:22:09:15 --:--:--:--
LIKE POETRY.

1580 01:22:11:00 --:--:--:--
HE DID LIKE A POEM.

1581 01:22:12:12 --:--:--:--
AND THE TEACHER SAID, "NO, NO,
NO, I DON'T WANT THAT."

1582 01:22:14:26 --:--:--:--
"I WANT SOMETHING INTERNAL.
I WANT SOMETHING ELSE.

1583 01:22:17:00 --:--:--:--
I WANT THE LINES."

1584 01:22:18:16 --:--:--:--
AND I SAID, "WELL, SCREW THAT.

1585 01:22:20:09 --:--:--:--
"I MEAN, THIS GUY'S
GOT IT. HE IS DOING IT.

1586 01:22:23:12 --:--:--:--
HE HAS WHAT IT IS INSIDE,
AND I WANT THAT."

1587 01:22:27:03 --:--:--:--
SO SURE ENOUGH, WE BROUGHT
HIM AND JOHANNA TO ROCHESTER.

1588 01:22:31:07 --:--:--:--
HE'S ONE OF THE DEAF POETS
THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T

1589 01:22:33:15 --:--:--:--
KNOW MUCH ABOUT.

1590 01:22:34:27 --:--:--:--
HE WAS SO BEAUTIFUL, THE WAY HE
USED HIS HANDS AND HIS EYES.

1591 01:22:38:23 --:--:--:--
I LEARNED SO MUCH FROM
HOW HE USED HIS EYES.

1592 01:22:41:04 --:--:--:--
IN EVERYDAY LANGUAGE, ASL,
IT DEPENDS VERY STRONGLY

1593 01:22:44:26 --:--:--:--
ON EYES FOR EYE CONTACT,

1594 01:22:46:25 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, TO GET PEOPLE'S
ATTENTION AND INDICATE WHERE
PEOPLE ARE LOOKING.

1595 01:22:50:15 --:--:--:--
BUT THE WAY HE USED HIS EYE
GAZE TO REFERENCE HIS HAND--

1596 01:22:53:15 --:--:--:--
HE WOULD DO LIKE A TREE,

1597 01:22:55:20 --:--:--:--
AND HE'D WATCH THE
TREE AND REACT TO IT.

1598 01:22:57:15 --:--:--:--
IT WAS FASCINATING, PLUS
HE WAS VERY, VERY MEASURED.

1599 01:23:01:15 --:--:--:--
NO HURRIES.

1600 01:23:03:04 --:--:--:--
CLARITY WAS OF THE UTMOST
IMPORTANCE, GIVING THE

1601 01:23:05:27 --:--:--:--
AUDIENCE TIME TO ABSORB WHAT
THEY SAW AND TOTALLY GET IT

1602 01:23:09:13 --:--:--:--
INSTEAD OF BEING
BARRAGED WITH IMAGERY.

1603 01:23:12:07 --:--:--:--
SOMETIMES, I'M SORT OF
LIKE THROWING THINGS

1604 01:23:14:23 --:--:--:--
AT THE AUDIENCE,
BUT HE WAS SO CLEAR.

1605 01:23:17:00 --:--:--:--
I MEAN,
YOU KNOW, IT WAS

1606 01:23:18:23 --:--:--:--
SO CLEAR AND SIMPLE AND YET
COMPLEX AT THE SAME TIME.

1607 01:23:22:25 --:--:--:--
I WORKED WITH HIM TOGETHER--
KENNY, SERGE, JOHANNA,

1608 01:23:27:03 --:--:--:--
AND I WORKED TOGETHER AND
DEVELOPED A HOLOCAUST PIECE

1609 01:23:29:12 --:--:--:--
CALLED "ONLY 13."

1610 01:23:31:10 --:--:--:--
AND WE EXPERIMENTED
WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT
TECHNIQUES. I MEAN

1611 01:23:34:19 --:--:--:--
WE WERE JUST PUSHING THE
BOUNDARIES AND THE LANGUAGE

1612 01:23:36:27 --:--:--:--
BEYOND ANYTHING THAT HAD
EVER BEEN PUSHED BEFORE.

1613 01:23:39:14 --:--:--:--
WE'D PUSH EVERY DAY, AND OUR
GOAL WAS JUST TO LET GO, LET GO

1614 01:23:44:04 --:--:--:--
OF THE CONSTRUCTS OF THE
LANGUAGE AND HAVE IT

1615 01:23:46:02 --:--:--:--
BECOME ART, HAVE IT
BECOME KINETIC.

1616 01:23:49:01 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, DON'T WORRY
ABOUT THE FUNCTION.

1617 01:23:50:17 --:--:--:--
WORRY ABOUT THE IMAGE.

1618 01:23:51:29 --:--:--:--
IT WAS LIKE THIS GREAT
EXPERIENCE TO WORK WITH HIM--

1619 01:23:54:18 --:--:--:--
I MEAN, SO OPEN.

1620 01:23:56:03 --:--:--:--
WE TRIED THINGS
WITH BLACK LIGHTS.

1621 01:23:58:06 --:--:--:--
WE DID THINGS IN CIRCLES.

1622 01:23:59:21 --:--:--:--
WE DID ALL THESE DIFFERENT
TECHNIQUES WE NEVER THOUGHT

1623 01:24:01:00 --:--:--:--
OF BEFORE.

1624 01:24:02:22 --:--:--:--
I MEAN, BLESS HIM.

1625 01:24:04:00 --:--:--:--
THE WORLD HAS CHANGED
NOW HE'S GONE.

1626 01:24:05:29 01:24:08:05
IT'S A LESSER
PLACE WITHOUT HIM.

1627 01:24:14:24 --:--:--:--
OH, THERE'S ANOTHER DEAF POET
THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T

1628 01:24:17:17 --:--:--:--
KNOW ABOUT--
JOSEPH CASTRONOVO.

1629 01:24:20:08 --:--:--:--
HE'S AMAZING.

1630 01:24:22:17 --:--:--:--
HE KNOWS FRENCH,
ITALIAN, SPANISH.

1631 01:24:26:18 --:--:--:--
AND WHAT HE DOES IS, HE
FUSES DIFFERENT ELEMENTS

1632 01:24:29:06 --:--:--:--
OF ALL THOSE LANGUAGES AND
PUTS THEM TOGETHER OUT

1633 01:24:31:15 --:--:--:--
ON HIS HANDS.

1634 01:24:33:10 --:--:--:--
I THINK DIRKSEN HAS
ONE VIDEOTAPE OF HIS.

1635 01:24:35:27 --:--:--:--
HE COMMITTED SUICIDE,
SO HE'S GONE.

1636 01:24:38:12 --:--:--:--
VERY, VERY TRAGIC.

1637 01:24:40:14 --:--:--:--
BECAUSE HIS VISION, HIS
VIEW OF THE WORLD, IT WAS

1638 01:24:45:18 --:--:--:--
SO DIFFERENT.

1639 01:24:47:02 --:--:--:--
HE HAD SUCH A DIFFERENT WAY
OF LOOKING AT THINGS.

1640 01:24:49:19 --:--:--:--
AND THE WAY HE WENT ABOUT
DEAF POETRY WAS REALLY

1641 01:24:53:17 --:--:--:--
HOT ISSUES, WHAT HE DID.

1642 01:24:55:02 --:--:--:--
I MEAN, HE WAS ALREADY
THERE, YOU KNOW.

1643 01:24:57:01 --:--:--:--
HE WAS LIKE ALREADY WAY
AHEAD OF THE GAME AND WAITING

1644 01:25:00:04 01:25:02:08
FOR EVERYBODY
ELSE TO CATCH UP.

1645 01:25:07:15 --:--:--:--
YEAH, IT WAS SOME SHORT POEM,
SOMETHING LIKE A VOICE WAS

1646 01:25:12:02 --:--:--:--
STUCK AND IT GOES INTO THE
HAND AND BECOMES LEGS AND THEN

1647 01:25:15:23 --:--:--:--
IT BECOMES A
SPIRIT OR SOMETHING.

1648 01:25:17:28 --:--:--:--
HIS TRANSFORMATIONS
WERE INCREDIBLE.

1649 01:25:20:24 --:--:--:--
VOICE UP IN THE TREE,
STUCK ON THE BARK.

1650 01:25:23:15 --:--:--:--
THE TREE GOES DOWN, THE
PERSON WALKS, ASCENDS UP

1651 01:25:26:15 --:--:--:--
INTO THE SKY.

1652 01:25:28:09 --:--:--:--
I CAN'T REMEMBER IT ANY MORE
CLEARLY THAN THAT, BUT WOW.

1653 01:25:31:25 --:--:--:--
AND NOW, THAT'S GONE.

1654 01:25:33:21 --:--:--:--
VALLI'S GONE, TOO, YOU KNOW.
DOT MILES IS GONE.

1655 01:25:37:29 --:--:--:--
A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GONE,
BUT THEIR WORK IS STILL

1656 01:25:40:00 --:--:--:--
OUT THERE.

1657 01:25:41:18 --:--:--:--
AND SERGE, TOO. 'COURSE, IT'S
REALLY IMPORTANT TO DOCUMENT

1658 01:25:45:12 --:--:--:--
THESE THINGS AND TO HAVE THIS.

1659 01:25:48:06 --:--:--:--
AND AS LONG AS WE HAVE
THEM DOCUMENTED, THEN THEIR

1660 01:25:50:10 --:--:--:--
SPIRIT LIVES ON.

1661 01:25:51:20 --:--:--:--
NOW, YOU KNOW, YOUNGER PEOPLE
NEED TO SOMEHOW SEE THIS

1662 01:25:54:14 --:--:--:--
AND HAVE IT INSIDE OF THEM.

1663 01:25:56:13 --:--:--:--
THEY NEED TO TAKE THOSE
HEARTS AND SOULS AND CARRY IT

1664 01:25:59:00 --:--:--:--
WITH THEM.

1665 01:26:02:19 --:--:--:--
YEAH, WE BROUGHT DEAF POETS
IN AND WE HAD THE HEARING

1666 01:26:05:17 --:--:--:--
COMMUNITY INVOLVED ALSO.

1667 01:26:07:13 --:--:--:--
IT WASN'T JUST THE
INTERPRETING COMMUNITY.

1668 01:26:09:28 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, TRADITIONALLY
IF THERE WAS A DEAF EVENT,

1669 01:26:12:12 --:--:--:--
CERTAIN GROUPS OF
PEOPLE WOULD SHOW UP.

1670 01:26:14:18 --:--:--:--
YOU HAD DEAF PEOPLE, YOU HAD
INTERPRETER TRAINING STUDENTS,

1671 01:26:18:16 --:--:--:--
ASL STUDENTS, AND THEN YOU'D
HAVE INTERPRETERS WHO WERE

1672 01:26:21:09 --:--:--:--
ALREADY WORKING IN THE FIELD.

1673 01:26:23:06 --:--:--:--
THE GREATER HEARING
COMMUNITY WOULDN'T KNOW

1674 01:26:24:28 --:--:--:--
ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

1675 01:26:26:12 --:--:--:--
IF THERE WERE OTHER HEARING
PEOPLE, THEN IT WAS FAMILY

1676 01:26:28:25 --:--:--:--
MEMBERS, BUT IN ROCHESTER,
THAT IS NOT WHAT

1677 01:26:31:29 --:--:--:--
WAS HAPPENING.

1678 01:26:33:05 --:--:--:--
YEAH, OF COURSE DEAF
COMMUNITY PEOPLE SHOWED UP.

1679 01:26:35:19 --:--:--:--
AND THERE WERE INTERPRETERS
AND INTERPRETING STUDENTS

1680 01:26:38:13 --:--:--:--
AND THERE WERE PEOPLE
WHO WANTED TO LEARN ASL,

1681 01:26:40:21 --:--:--:--
BUT THE HEARING PEOPLE
WHO DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING

1682 01:26:43:01 --:--:--:--
ABOUT DEAF PEOPLE CAME ALSO.

1683 01:26:45:09 --:--:--:--
IT WAS AMAZING.

1684 01:26:46:21 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, LIKE DEAF
PEOPLE WERE GOING TO HEAR

1685 01:26:49:00 --:--:--:--
HEARING POETS, TOO.

1686 01:26:50:25 --:--:--:--
MAYBE PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT
EACH OTHER OR EACH OTHER'S

1687 01:26:53:02 --:--:--:--
CULTURES, BUT THEY WERE GOING
OUT OF CURIOSITY. SO THESE

1688 01:26:56:20 --:--:--:--
AUDIENCES BECAME BIGGER
AND BIGGER, AND IT BECAME

1689 01:26:59:00 --:--:--:--
REALLY POPULAR.

1690 01:27:00:15 --:--:--:--
WE STARTED GETTING MORE MONEY
FROM THE GRANTS THAT WE WROTE

1691 01:27:03:00 --:--:--:--
EVERY YEAR.

1692 01:27:04:18 --:--:--:--
KENNY SAID, "WHAT ABOUT
YOUNGER PEOPLE WHO WANT TO TRY

1693 01:27:06:24 --:--:--:--
DOING THIS POETRY STUFF BUT
ONLY HAVE A FEW THINGS?"

1694 01:27:10:05 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, I WANT TO DO THIS.
IT'S LIKE HOW I WAS WHEN I

1695 01:27:13:00 --:--:--:--
SAW BERNARD BRAGG.

1696 01:27:14:17 --:--:--:--
WHAT IS ANYONE DOING FOR THEM?

1697 01:27:17:00 --:--:--:--
SO WE THOUGHT, "WHY NOT
DO A ROOKIE NIGHT?"

1698 01:27:20:15 --:--:--:--
SO WE SET ONE UP.

1699 01:27:22:00 --:--:--:--
ANYBODY WHO WANTED COULD GET
TOGETHER AND, YOU KNOW, THEY

1700 01:27:25:22 --:--:--:--
COULD SHOW US OUR WORK AND WE'D
GIVE THEM FEEDBACK AND WE GET

1701 01:27:28:16 --:--:--:--
TOGETHER AND KIND OF REHEARSE
THINGS OUT UNTIL, YOU KNOW,

1702 01:27:31:24 --:--:--:--
THINGS WERE THE
WAY THEY WANTED IT.

1703 01:27:33:19 --:--:--:--
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, SOME THINGS
WERE PROBABLY NOT THE WAY I

1704 01:27:37:14 --:--:--:--
WOULD'VE DONE IT, BUT YOU
HAD TO RESPECT WHAT THEY WERE

1705 01:27:39:16 --:--:--:--
DOING, THEIR
TECHNIQUE AND SO FORTH.

1706 01:27:41:23 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, IT WAS THEIR WORK.

1707 01:27:43:14 --:--:--:--
AND SO IT WAS REALLY GOOD.
I THINK WE HAD 3 ALTOGETHER.

1708 01:27:48:07 --:--:--:--
THE FIRST ONE WAS AWESOME!

1709 01:27:50:00 --:--:--:--
AND THE SECOND ONE BY THAT
TIME STARTED DOING MORE

1710 01:27:53:12 --:--:--:--
PERFORMANCE ART.

1711 01:27:55:02 --:--:--:--
I REMEMBER THIS LAST TIME,
THERE WAS A TV INVOLVED!

1712 01:27:58:21 01:28:02:15
ONE OF THE GUYS, HE'S MAKING
LOVE TO A TELEVISION. HA HA!

1713 01:28:06:15 --:--:--:--
JONATHAN LEVITAN, YOU KNOW,
OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

1714 01:28:10:13 --:--:--:--
I REMEMBER HIM.

1715 01:28:11:25 --:--:--:--
HE'S MAKING LOVE TO A TV.

1716 01:28:13:26 --:--:--:--
AND I THOUGHT, "OK,
IS THAT POETRY?

1717 01:28:18:15 01:28:23:00
POETRY IS...I GUESS IT
COULD BE WITH A TV."

1718 01:28:26:00 --:--:--:--
BUT YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A
LOT MORE PERFORMANCE ART

1719 01:28:28:16 --:--:--:--
PLUS MEDIA.

1720 01:28:30:04 --:--:--:--
AND THEN AT THE CONFERENCE,
I REMEMBER THEY WERE PLAYING

1721 01:28:33:22 --:--:--:--
WITH THIS BIG MOVIE SCREEN.

1722 01:28:35:22 --:--:--:--
I FORGET THE GUY'S NAME...
BIG GUY...

1723 01:28:38:15 --:--:--:--
UM, A.J. CLARK?

1724 01:28:42:15 01:28:44:15
A.J. COOK?

1725 01:28:46:15 --:--:--:--
YEAH, HE WOULD INTERACT WITH
THE MOVIE SCREEN AND GO BACK

1726 01:28:49:12 --:--:--:--
AND FORTH PLAYING WITH IT.

1727 01:28:51:07 --:--:--:--
I MEAN, YOU JUST SEE
THAT KIND OF THING NOW.

1728 01:28:53:04 --:--:--:--
ROSALIE, RIGHT, YES.

1729 01:28:55:00 --:--:--:--
SHE DOES THAT.

1730 01:28:57:15 --:--:--:--
YEAH, ROSALIE WAS THE NEXT
PERSON, AND HOPEFULLY,

1731 01:29:02:08 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GONNA
ENCOURAGE MORE OF THAT

1732 01:29:04:02 01:29:05:15
KIND OF THING.

1733 01:29:11:11 --:--:--:--
BUT EVERYTHING WAS JUST RIGHT.

1734 01:29:14:03 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE
OPENING SHOW WAS GREAT.

1735 01:29:17:00 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY WOULD GO
BACK AND FORTH IN INTERACTION

1736 01:29:19:15 --:--:--:--
WITH THE AUDIENCE.

1737 01:29:20:28 01:29:22:15
IT WAS AWESOME!
IT WAS SO HOT!

1738 01:29:27:00 --:--:--:--
YEAH, I REMEMBER HE TALKED ABOUT
A FLOWER AND A BEE, AND HE WAS

1739 01:29:32:03 --:--:--:--
USING SOME OF THOSE CINEMATIC
TECHNIQUES, YOU KNOW, BECOMING

1740 01:29:35:25 --:--:--:--
THE DIFFERENT THINGS, USING
THAT IDEA OF PERSONIFICATION.

1741 01:29:40:25 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, CLOSE-UP, LONGSHOTS,
GOING BACK AND FORTH.

1742 01:29:45:15 --:--:--:--
PLUS, HE KIND OF LET GO
OF SOME OF THOSE CINEMATIC

1743 01:29:50:18 --:--:--:--
TECHNIQUES AND WOULD LIKE
DO THE LINE, LIKE,

1744 01:29:53:24 --:--:--:--
"BEAUTIFUL AS HONEY."

1745 01:29:57:12 --:--:--:--
AND IT WOULD BECOME SOMETHING
CONCRETE WITH WORDS, AND THEN

1746 01:30:00:16 --:--:--:--
ALL OF A SUDDEN IT WOULD
BECOME THE IMAGE, AND THEN HE

1747 01:30:03:07 --:--:--:--
WOULD LET GO OF THE WORDS AND
GO BACK AND FORTH, AND HE'D DO

1748 01:30:06:23 01:30:09:11
IT BY FOLLOWING THE EYE GAZE.

1749 01:30:13:00 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, HE WOULD LIKE LOOK
AT THE THING AND THEN MOVE HIS

1750 01:30:15:15 --:--:--:--
EYES AWAY.

1751 01:30:17:04 --:--:--:--
YOU SEE HOW HIS MIND WAS
SWITCHING BACK AND FORTH

1752 01:30:19:18 --:--:--:--
BETWEEN A LOGIC, VERBAL,
AND IMAGERY.

1753 01:30:25:00 --:--:--:--
HE KEPT WORKING AT IT,
YOU KNOW HE KEEPS FIGHTING IT.

1754 01:30:28:09 01:30:30:15
HE'S GOT HIS ENERGY.
THAT'S HIS ART.

1755 01:30:33:15 01:30:36:00
RIGHT, YES.
AND HE LOVES MUSIC.

1756 01:30:40:00 --:--:--:--
WHY DID I COME
UP WITH THAT ONE?

1757 01:30:42:01 --:--:--:--
WELL, AT THE TIME, I WAS
EXPERIMENTING A LOT AND I WAS

1758 01:30:44:22 --:--:--:--
IN THE THEATER,
STILL A STUDENT.

1759 01:30:47:01 --:--:--:--
BUT I REALLY LIKED PERFORMING
ART A LOT BECAUSE MY

1760 01:30:49:15 --:--:--:--
MAJOR WAS ART.

1761 01:30:50:26 --:--:--:--
AND I LIKED THE EXPERIMENTAL
NATURE OF IT.

1762 01:30:53:18 --:--:--:--
SO I HAD GROWN UP IN ALL THESE
ORAL SCHOOLS, AND I WAS STILL

1763 01:30:56:04 --:--:--:--
AMAZED BECAUSE ONCE I LEARNED
SIGN LANGUAGE, EVERYTHING

1764 01:30:59:03 --:--:--:--
SEEMED SO MUCH EASIER TO ME.

1765 01:31:00:20 --:--:--:--
BUT I STRUGGLED SO LONG
WITH THE ORAL METHOD,

1766 01:31:03:10 --:--:--:--
AND I DIDN'T FEEL LIKE
I GOT ANY SKILLS OR LEARNED

1767 01:31:06:00 --:--:--:--
ANYTHING FROM IT.

1768 01:31:08:26 --:--:--:--
I WAS LEARNING ABOUT DEAF
CULTURE AND UNDERSTANDING MORE

1769 01:31:12:29 --:--:--:--
AND MORE ABOUT DEAFNESS
AND DEAF PEOPLE.

1770 01:31:15:06 --:--:--:--
AND I WANTED TO EXPRESS THAT
ABOUT HOW THIS MANIPULATION

1771 01:31:18:02 --:--:--:--
OF LANGUAGE AND OPPRESSION
AND PATERNALISM WAS KEEPING

1772 01:31:21:15 --:--:--:--
EVERYBODY DOWN.

1773 01:31:22:28 --:--:--:--
THE ISSUES OF IT,
THE COLONIALISM, ALL THE

1774 01:31:25:27 --:--:--:--
THINGS THAT WERE OPPRESSING
DEAF PEOPLE, AND I THOUGHT,

1775 01:31:28:06 --:--:--:--
"WHY DO I NOT TALK?

1776 01:31:30:22 --:--:--:--
"DOESN'T MATTER IF I'M
NOT CLEAR, PEOPLE WON'T

1777 01:31:32:18 --:--:--:--
"UNDERSTAND ME.

1778 01:31:33:23 --:--:--:--
WHY DO I NOT?"

1779 01:31:35:05 --:--:--:--
IT'S BECAUSE IT'S NOT FOR
HEARING PEOPLE ANYWAY.

1780 01:31:37:00 --:--:--:--
I JUST WANT TO SAY,
"HERE I AM.

1781 01:31:39:10 --:--:--:--
"I AM THE PRODUCT OF THE
ORALISM METHOD. PERIOD.

1782 01:31:42:19 --:--:--:--
"THIS IS WHAT YOU GET.

1783 01:31:43:28 --:--:--:--
HELLO! I AM YOUR
ORAL SUCCESS STORY."

1784 01:31:47:05 --:--:--:--
HOW COULD I FIND ANYTHING THAT
WOULD PROVE IT EVEN MORE THAN

1785 01:31:49:00 --:--:--:--
THAT WOULD?

1786 01:31:50:15 --:--:--:--
"ORALISM DIDN'T WORK FOR ME.
PERIOD. AND HERE'S THE OUTCOME."

1787 01:31:55:00 --:--:--:--
SO I WROTE THIS DOWN, AND THEN
I THOUGHT WHAT I WOULD DO IS

1788 01:31:57:12 --:--:--:--
FORCE KENNY TO SIGN IT BECAUSE
HE'S NOT A NATIVE SIGNER.

1789 01:32:00:15 --:--:--:--
I THOUGHT "YOU SIGN."

1790 01:32:02:10 --:--:--:--
HE SAID, "I DON'T WANT TO.
I DON'T WANT TO. I'M THE VOICE."

1791 01:32:05:15 --:--:--:--
I SAID, "NO, NO,
THAT'S THE POINT.

1792 01:32:07:04 --:--:--:--
"I'M LOUSY WITH MY VOICE,
AND YOU'RE A LOUSY SIGNER.

1793 01:32:10:00 --:--:--:--
SO COME ON."

1794 01:32:11:13 --:--:--:--
AND HE SAID, "OK."

1795 01:32:13:07 --:--:--:--
SO WE WENT ON STAGE AND DID
IT, AND WE PLAYED WITH THAT

1796 01:32:16:00 --:--:--:--
BACK AND FORTH.

1797 01:32:17:15 --:--:--:--
I HAVE TO ADMIT, I WAS
VERY NERVOUS

1798 01:32:19:14 --:--:--:--
ABOUT THE DEAF AUDIENCES.

1799 01:32:21:04 --:--:--:--
I KNOW TALKING ABOUT
ORALISM IS SOMETIMES TABOO.

1800 01:32:24:00 --:--:--:--
I MEAN, IT'S A
REALLY HOT ISSUE.

1801 01:32:25:15 --:--:--:--
BUT I THINK IT'S SOMETHING
WE NEED TO CONFRONT HEAD-ON,

1802 01:32:28:14 --:--:--:--
ESPECIALLY THROUGH ART,

1803 01:32:30:01 --:--:--:--
BECAUSE IF SOMEBODY'S ANGRY,
WHY ARE THEY ANGRY?

1804 01:32:33:11 --:--:--:--
I WANT TO SHOW PEOPLE THAT
I UNDERSTAND THIS,

1805 01:32:35:22 --:--:--:--
THAT THIS IS SOMETHING
THAT I'VE BEEN THROUGH.

1806 01:32:37:15 --:--:--:--
I MEAN, YOU CAN
UNDERSTAND IT IF YOU'VE

1807 01:32:39:00 --:--:--:--
BEEN THROUGH IT.

1808 01:32:40:15 --:--:--:--
I WANTED TO GO TO THAT PLACE
WHERE FINALLY I CAN SHOW THAT,

1809 01:32:43:14 --:--:--:--
THAT THIS IS MY WORLD.

1810 01:32:45:07 --:--:--:--
I CAN SHOW WHAT HAPPENED IN
MY PAST AND YOU'LL GET IT.

1811 01:32:49:00 --:--:--:--
THAT'S A PLACE OF COMFORT.

1812 01:32:52:21 --:--:--:--
AND BEFORE EVERY PERFORMANCE,
I'D EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE,

1813 01:32:55:03 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, "KENNY
IS NOT VOICING.

1814 01:32:56:20 --:--:--:--
"HE'S SIGNING.

1815 01:32:57:27 --:--:--:--
I'M VOICING, AND MY
VOICE ISN'T VERY GOOD."

1816 01:33:00:19 --:--:--:--
I'LL SAY, "MY VOICE
ISN'T VERY GOOD,

1817 01:33:02:19 --:--:--:--
AND THAT'S THE POINT OF IT."

1818 01:33:04:02 --:--:--:--
IT'S CALLED "I AM
ORDERED NOW TO TALK."

1819 01:33:07:02 --:--:--:--
AND I JUST TALKED AND
TALKED MY WAY THROUGH IT.

1820 01:33:09:13 --:--:--:--
AND I REALLY ENJOYED IT.
IT WAS LIKE SIGNING.

1821 01:33:11:15 --:--:--:--
IT WAS TALKING.

1822 01:33:13:02 --:--:--:--
IT WAS SO MUCH FUN BECAUSE
I DIDN'T WANT TO TALK.

1823 01:33:15:28 --:--:--:--
IT WAS MORE LIKE
I WAS PLAYING.

1824 01:33:17:14 --:--:--:--
I WAS JUST PLAYING, LETTING
IT COME OUT THROUGH MY VOICE.

1825 01:33:20:15 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, ALL THOSE YEARS
OF BEING ADMONISHED FOR NOT

1826 01:33:24:06 --:--:--:--
SAYING ANYTHING THE RIGHT WAY.
I HAD TO THINK ABOUT WHERE MY

1827 01:33:27:05 --:--:--:--
HARD PALATE IS,
WHERE MY SOFT PALATE IS.

1828 01:33:30:15 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW HOW DO YOU
MAKE A "B"?

1829 01:33:32:19 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, HOW DO
YOU MAKE A VOWEL?

1830 01:33:34:00 --:--:--:--
WHERE DO YOU PUT YOUR TONGUE,
AND ALL THIS KIND OF CRAP?

1831 01:33:36:13 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, THE SCIENCE OF IT,
THE MATH OF IT, WHATEVER.

1832 01:33:39:15 --:--:--:--
IT'S SO OPPRESSIVE.

1833 01:33:41:00 --:--:--:--
AND I JUST THOUGHT,
"YOU KNOW, WHAT THE FUCK.

1834 01:33:43:00 --:--:--:--
"I JUST WANT TO ENJOY IT,
LAUGHING, CRYING,

1835 01:33:45:15 --:--:--:--
LETTING IT OUT,
SHOUTING."

1836 01:33:47:00 --:--:--:--
ALL THE THINGS YOU DO.
IT'S BEAUTIFUL.

1837 01:33:49:00 --:--:--:--
I WAS IN THE CORNER JUST
YELLING OR SOMETHING,

1838 01:33:51:21 --:--:--:--
JUST GETTING IT OUT
AND IT'S RIGHT THERE.

1839 01:33:53:24 --:--:--:--
AND I DIDN'T CARE WHAT
IT SOUNDED LIKE.

1840 01:33:55:24 --:--:--:--
I JUST TALKED, AND KENNY WAS
SIGNING AWAY IN HIS AWKWARD

1841 01:34:00:15 --:--:--:--
KIND OF KENNY SIGNING WAY.

1842 01:34:02:21 --:--:--:--
AND THE DEAF AUDIENCE SAW THIS,
AND I REMEMBER PATRICK GRAYBILL

1843 01:34:07:02 --:--:--:--
WAS LOOKING UP
AND GOING, "HUH?"

1844 01:34:09:20 --:--:--:--
BUT THE HEARING PEOPLE REALLY
TOOK IT TO HEART AND GOT

1845 01:34:12:07 --:--:--:--
SO MUCH MORE OUT OF IT,
AND THAT REALLY HIT ME THAT

1846 01:34:15:20 --:--:--:--
THE HEARING PEOPLE WERE
GETTING MORE OUT OF IT THAN

1847 01:34:18:00 --:--:--:--
THE DEAF PEOPLE.

1848 01:34:19:14 --:--:--:--
THERE'S THE IRONY, I THINK.

1849 01:34:21:07 --:--:--:--
IT'S THE MOST POLITICAL
STRONG-AGAINST-ORALISM THING

1850 01:34:24:16 --:--:--:--
THAT I CAN THINK OF.

1851 01:34:26:04 01:34:29:00
AND THE WAY TO MAKE THAT
CASE WAS BY SPEAKING.

1852 01:34:34:25 --:--:--:--
RIGHT, AND IT'S IRONIC THAT,
YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY DOCUMENT

1853 01:34:39:09 --:--:--:--
THIS OR WHEN THEY VIDEORECORD IT
OR WHEN THEY STUDY IT,

1854 01:34:42:25 --:--:--:--
WHO'S GONNA USE IT?

1855 01:34:46:10 --:--:--:--
IS IT GONNA BE THE SIGNERS
OR HOW IS IT GONNA BE USED?

1856 01:34:49:15 01:34:51:24
THAT'S REALLY SORT OF IRONIC.

1857 01:34:53:15 --:--:--:--
NOW THAT'S THE
WAY THAT IT WAS,

1858 01:34:56:17 --:--:--:--
BUT IT HASN'T SO MUCH ANYMORE.

1859 01:34:58:15 --:--:--:--
NOW IT'S MORE ABOUT CULTURE.

1860 01:35:01:15 --:--:--:--
I MEAN,
TODAY, YOU KNOW, IT'S MORE

1861 01:35:05:00 --:--:--:--
CONTROVERSIAL THAN
IT WAS BACK THEN.

1862 01:35:07:00 01:35:09:00
YOU KNOW, IMPLANTS...

1863 01:35:10:15 --:--:--:--
AND I DON'T DO MORE
ABOUT LITTLE "d" ISSUES,

1864 01:35:14:00 --:--:--:--
MORE ABOUT BIG
"D" DEAF ISSUES.

1865 01:35:16:00 --:--:--:--
I WANT TO RESPECT
THE CULTURE.

1866 01:35:19:00 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT
TO STOP THAT.

1867 01:35:21:15 --:--:--:--
IT'S BEEN OVER
10 YEARS NOW.

1868 01:35:23:09 --:--:--:--
RECENTLY, NO.
NO, NO, THAT'S FINE.

1869 01:35:26:03 --:--:--:--
RECENTLY IN BOSTON, I DID A
PERFORMANCE, A ONE-MAN SHOW,

1870 01:35:32:00 --:--:--:--
WHERE I WAS TALKING ABOUT
THE HISTORY OF DEAF PEOPLE

1871 01:35:34:00 --:--:--:--
AND DEAFNESS,

1872 01:35:35:10 --:--:--:--
AND I WASN'T USING
ANY SIGN LANGUAGE.

1873 01:35:36:27 01:35:39:00
I WAS DOING IT ALL VISUALLY.

1874 01:35:42:15 --:--:--:--
WE OPENED UP THE SHOW...AND
THEN I HAD AN OVERHEAD THERE

1875 01:35:47:15 --:--:--:--
WITH SOME OF THE WORDS.

1876 01:35:50:00 --:--:--:--
AND I WENT TO THE AUDIENCE
WITH A SIGN THAT SAID

1877 01:35:52:15 --:--:--:--
"HEARING VOLUNTEER, PLEASE,"
ON A SIGN,

1878 01:35:55:00 --:--:--:--
AND A PERSON
WOULD COME UP.

1879 01:35:57:15 --:--:--:--
AND ON THE OVERHEAD, I
WOULD COMMUNICATE WITH THEM.

1880 01:35:59:00 --:--:--:--
AND I'D SAY,
"WHAT'S YOUR NAME?"

1881 01:36:00:15 --:--:--:--
AND I'D GO BACK AND FORTH
TALKING TO THEM THIS WAY,

1882 01:36:02:15 --:--:--:--
AND I SAID
"WOULD YOU HELP ME?

1883 01:36:05:15 --:--:--:--
"NOW LISTEN.

1884 01:36:08:00 01:36:09:10
READY?"

1885 01:36:12:15 --:--:--:--
I SAID I HAVE ANOTHER
SIGN SAYING, "I NEED
AN INTERPRETER."

1886 01:36:15:15 --:--:--:--
AND I'D CALL SOMEBODY UP.

1887 01:36:18:15 --:--:--:--
THEY'D SAY I'D HAVE THE
MICROPHONE, AND I'D START

1888 01:36:20:23 --:--:--:--
SPEAKING AWAY INTO THE
MICROPHONE, AND THE INTERPRETER

1889 01:36:22:20 --:--:--:--
WOULD BE LIKE,
"I--UH--UM..."

1890 01:36:24:20 --:--:--:--
AND JUST DOING IT COLD.

1891 01:36:26:09 --:--:--:--
AND THE OTHER PERSON IS
POINTING TO SOMEWHERE IN THERE

1892 01:36:28:17 --:--:--:--
GOING...AND I'M
JUST TALKING AWAY.

1893 01:36:31:05 --:--:--:--
AT THE END OF IT, I EXPOSE IT,
AND IT SAYS, "ORALISM WORKS."

1894 01:36:36:15 --:--:--:--
NO, NO,
NO, NO, NO.

1895 01:36:37:27 --:--:--:--
"ORAL POWER." THAT'S WHAT
IT WAS ON THE SHIRT.

1896 01:36:40:11 01:36:42:08
I SAID, "ORAL POWER."

1897 01:36:48:00 --:--:--:--
THE 1880s, WHERE THE DEAF
SCHOOLS POPULATION STARTED

1898 01:36:52:15 --:--:--:--
BEING IMPACTED.

1899 01:36:54:17 --:--:--:--
SO WHEN I TOOK THAT SHIRT OFF,
AND I SAID, "THESE ARE

1900 01:36:57:05 --:--:--:--
THE DARK AGES."

1901 01:36:59:05 --:--:--:--
AND THEN I HAD ANOTHER SHIRT,

1902 01:37:01:07 --:--:--:--
AND I DO "JABBERWOCKY."

1903 01:37:03:04 --:--:--:--
I MEAN, THAT KIND OF
STUFF WORKED FOR ME

1904 01:37:04:22 --:--:--:--
BECAUSE PEOPLE WOULD BE LIKE,
"WHOA, YES, RIGHT,

1905 01:37:07:26 --:--:--:--
YEAH, YEAH."

1906 01:37:10:02 --:--:--:--
SO THAT WAS IN BOSTON,
2 YEARS AGO, I THINK.

1907 01:37:13:18 --:--:--:--
THEY HAVE A VIDEO OF IT,

1908 01:37:15:00 --:--:--:--
AND I'VE TRIED TO GET
A COPY OF IT.

1909 01:37:16:18 --:--:--:--
I KNOW THEY HAVE IT.
MAYBE YOU CAN GET IT.

1910 01:37:18:22 01:37:22:01
YOU KNOW, I'D LOVE TO
HAVE A COPY OF IT.

1911 01:37:38:15 --:--:--:--
BUT SOMETIMES, IT'S SOMETHING
PEOPLE DON'T LIKE TO TALK ABOUT,

1912 01:37:42:00 --:--:--:--
BUT AT LEAST WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT IT.

1913 01:37:43:27 --:--:--:--
IT'S NOT WHETHER OR NOT
YOU SUPPORT IT, YES OR NO.

1914 01:37:46:12 01:37:48:07
IT'S MY OPINION.

1915 01:37:54:15 --:--:--:--
OK. LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE
OF A HAND SHAPE RHYME--

1916 01:37:59:15 --:--:--:--
OK, ONE HAND SHAPE THAT
CONTINUES THROUGHOUT THE POEM.

1917 01:38:03:25 --:--:--:--
PAINTING BECOMES A BIRD,
THE BIRD FLIES UP TO THE SUN

1918 01:38:10:07 --:--:--:--
AND THEN BECOMES A BUTTERFLY
ON THE HAT OF SOMEONE WHO

1919 01:38:14:19 --:--:--:--
SWATS IT AWAY.

1920 01:38:17:00 --:--:--:--
THE PAINTBRUSH AGAIN MAKES A
TREE WITH A LEAF THAT FALLS

1921 01:38:20:04 --:--:--:--
AND BECOMES A WATERFALL.

1922 01:38:22:27 --:--:--:--
SO YOU SEE, THE SAME HAND
SHAPE, THE FIVE HAND SHAPE,

1923 01:38:26:28 --:--:--:--
YOU CAN GO BACK AND FORTH.

1924 01:38:28:07 --:--:--:--
SO IF YOU GIVE ME A HAND
SHAPE, LIKE THE LETTER "F"...

1925 01:38:31:15 --:--:--:--
ANOTHER HAND SHAPE.
"S," LETTER "S."

1926 01:38:34:15 --:--:--:--
OK, "F" AND "S."

1927 01:38:36:00 --:--:--:--
SO THEN GIVE ME A THEME.

1928 01:38:38:17 --:--:--:--
CLOUDS? OK.

1929 01:38:40:15 01:38:45:00
"S," "F." "S," "F."
OK, LET ME SEE.

1930 01:38:49:00 --:--:--:--
SOME FLIES FLYING AROUND.

1931 01:38:51:15 --:--:--:--
THEY FORM A CLOUD.

1932 01:38:54:19 --:--:--:--
RAINDROPS FALL.

1933 01:38:57:00 --:--:--:--
THEY HIT A PERSON,

1934 01:38:59:00 --:--:--:--
WHO ENDS UP
LOOKING AT THE SKY.

1935 01:39:01:15 --:--:--:--
HE COVERS HIMSELF WITH THE
COAT AND THEN WALKS AWAY.

1936 01:39:05:13 --:--:--:--
SEE? SO YOU CAN
PLAY WITH THAT.

1937 01:39:07:00 01:39:10:15
YOU MAKE A THEME AND USE
TWO HAND SHAPES AND
USE THEM BACK AND FORTH.

1938 01:39:21:00 --:--:--:--
A MOVIE.

1939 01:39:22:15 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW,
THE CAMERA OR THEY HAVE

1940 01:39:28:20 --:--:--:--
MULTIPLE CAMERAS, MAYBE
3 CAMERAS, AND THEY
GO BACK AND FORTH,

1941 01:39:31:28 --:--:--:--
LIKE IN "THE GODFATHER."

1942 01:39:33:15 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, I LOVE THE WAY
THEY USE THEIR CAMERAWORK.

1943 01:39:37:00 --:--:--:--
YOU KNOW, MAYBE
USE LIKE A ROCKET, OK,

1944 01:39:39:00 01:39:40:15
AS AN EXAMPLE.

1945 01:39:57:15 01:40:01:00
SEE HOW YOU GO BACK AND FORTH
BETWEEN THE CAMERA ANGLE?

1946 01:40:07:00 --:--:--:--
POETRY.

1947 01:40:08:23 --:--:--:--
LET'S SEE...WHAT IS POETRY?

1948 01:40:11:26 --:--:--:--
LIKE I WAS TELLING KENNY LAST
NIGHT, WE WERE ON THE PHONE,

1949 01:40:15:23 --:--:--:--
AND WE WERE TALKING
ABOUT POETRY.

1950 01:40:17:22 --:--:--:--
AND IT'S LIKE GIVING BIRTH.

1951 01:40:19:11 --:--:--:--
YOU HAVE SOMETHING IN YOUR
HEAD, AND IT'S JUST GROWING

1952 01:40:23:01 --:--:--:--
AND TRYING TO GET
OUT AND ESCAPE.

1953 01:40:25:19 --:--:--:--
OR LIKE A VENUS FLY TRAP THAT
CATCHES SOMETHING, AND THEN IT

1954 01:40:29:11 --:--:--:--
GROWS AND TRIES TO COME OUT,
OR IT'S LIKE THE STARS

1955 01:40:33:02 --:--:--:--
AND THE MOON, YOU KNOW, ALL
OF CREATION AND THEN FINALLY

1956 01:40:36:12 --:--:--:--
THERE'S A BABY THERE SCREAMING
AND IT GROWS ALL OUT, AND IT

1957 01:40:40:13 --:--:--:--
BECOMES INSIDE YOU AS A
HEARTBEAT AND UNDERSTANDING,

1958 01:40:43:17 01:40:46:00
AND THAT'S WHAT POETRY IS!

1959 01:40:48:15 --:--:--:--
I DON'T KNOW.
HOW THE FUCK DO I KNOW?

1960 01:40:50:27 --:--:--:--
GOOD QUESTION.

1961 01:40:52:04 --:--:--:--
IT'S POETRY! PERIOD!

1962 01:40:55:15 --:--:--:--
POETRY IS HERE, IT'S THERE,
IT'S EVERYWHERE.

1963 01:40:58:15 --:--:--:--
IT'S THIS CHAIR.
IT'S THAT BUILDING.

1964 01:41:00:15 --:--:--:--
IT'S MY HEART, IT'S LOVE,
IT'S BLOOD, IT'S SWEAT,

1965 01:41:03:26 --:--:--:--
IT'S EVERYTHING, IT'S LANGUAGE,
IT'S EATING, IT'S EVERYTHING.

1966 01:41:07:15 --:--:--:--
IT'S POETRY!

1967 01:41:09:00 01:41:12:18
IT'S LIFE, IT'S SHARING,
IT'S EVERYTHING.

1968 01:41:20:07 01:41:22:10
AND NOW IT'S YOUR TURN.

1969 01:41:23:15 01:41:25:15
IT IS YOUR TURN.

transcript

1 00:00:01:15 --:--:--:-- 2 00:00:03:15 --:--:--:-- I WAS HEARING UNTIL ABOUT THE AGE OF 3, AND THEN I 3 00:00:08:09 --:--:--:-- DEVELOPED SPINAL MENINGITIS. 4 00:00:12:14 --:--:--:-- AND I TRY TO LOOK BACK AND SEE IF I CAN REMEMBER ANY 5 00:00:15:29 --:--:--:-- SOUNDS, AND I CAN'T REALLY, BUT THEY MAY BE IN THERE 6 00:00:20:04 --:--:--:-- SOMEWHERE IN THE BACK OF MY MIND. 7 00:00:22:21 --:--:--:-- BUT ANYWAY, WHEN I WAS LITTLE, I HAD JUST GOTTEN HOME FROM 8 00:00:27:08 --:--:--:-- THE HOSPITAL. 9 00:00:30:13 --:--:--:-- I REMEMBER MY MOM CAME UP TO ME, AND I SEE THAT SHE WAS 10 00:00:35:15 --:--:--:-- TALKING, BUT I THOUGHT, "OH, MOM, YOU'RE SO SILLY. 11 00:00:39:22 --:--:--:-- WHERE'S YOUR VOICE? DID IT BREAK?" 12 00:00:42:29 --:--:--:-- AND THEN MY DAD STARTED, AND I WENT, "WHOA...HE DOESN'T 13 00:00:49:04 --:--:--:-- "HAVE ANY VOICE. 14 00:00:50:21 --:--:--:-- HIS VOICE IS BROKEN, TOO." 15 00:00:53:06 --:--:--:-- AND THEN MY DOG. 16 00:00:54:17 --:--:--:-- I SAW THAT IT WAS BARKING, AND THERE WASN'T ANY SOUND. 17 00:00:59:15 --:--:--:-- AND I TURNED ON THE TV, 18 00:01:02:00 --:--:--:-- AND THERE WASN'T ANY SOUND. 19 00:01:03:23 --:--:--:-- AND I REALIZED I'M THE ONE WHO'S "BROKEN." 20 00:01:09:01 --:--:--:-- AND YOU KNOW, COMMUNICATION BECAME A HUGE FRUSTRATION. 21 00:01:12:12 --:--:--:-- I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY ALL THE DETAILS, BUT I HAD TO 22 00:01:16:16 --:--:--:-- LEARN EVERYTHING ALL OVER AGAIN, 23 00:01:19:06 00:01:21:18 AND IT WAS A VERY DIFFICULT TIME. 24 00:01:24:00 --:--:--:-- I WENT TO THE SCHOOL FOR THE DEAF IN NEW JERSEY--THE MKSD. 25 00:01:29:20 --:--:--:-- AND AT THAT TIME, THEY WERE AN ORAL PROGRAM. 26 00:01:32:15 --:--:--:-- THERE WAS NO SIGN LANGUAGE. 27 00:01:35:00 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, SO UP UNTIL ABOUT FIRST, SECOND, THIRD GRADE. 28 00:01:39:07 --:--:--:-- AND MY PARENTS WEREN'T REALLY HAPPY WITH THAT, SO THEY 29 00:01:41:10 --:--:--:-- TRANSFERRED ME TO THE CLARKE SCHOOL IN MASSACHUSETTS. 30 00:01:45:15 --:--:--:-- AND AGAIN, A VERY STRONG ORAL PROGRAM. 31 00:01:48:28 --:--:--:-- AND I DIDN'T KNOW ANY SIGN LANGUAGE WHATSOEVER, 32 00:01:52:10 --:--:--:-- BUT I WAS REALLY, REALLY INTERESTED IN THEATER. 33 00:01:56:19 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, BECAUSE GROWING UP, I HAD TO COMMUNICATE 34 00:01:58:17 --:--:--:-- WITH GESTURES. 35 00:02:00:03 --:--:--:-- I REMEMBER SEEING CHARLIE CHAPLIN, YOU KNOW THE LITTLE 36 00:02:04:26 --:--:--:-- HOBO, TRAMP GUY, AND I WOULD LAUGH AND LAUGH. 37 00:02:08:08 --:--:--:-- MY FAMILY WOULD LAUGH, TOO. 38 00:02:11:00 --:--:--:-- I THOUGHT, "WELL, HEARING AND DEAF PEOPLE ENJOY 39 00:02:14:04 --:--:--:-- THE SAME THINGS." 40 00:02:15:13 --:--:--:-- AND HE BECAME MY HERO. 41 00:02:17:05 --:--:--:-- HE DIDN'T TALK. HE DIDN'T SIGN, ANYTHING. 42 00:02:19:16 --:--:--:-- I THOUGHT HE WAS JUST GREAT. 43 00:02:21:26 --:--:--:-- AND THAT HAD A HUGE IMPACT ON ME. 44 00:02:25:15 --:--:--:-- SO I DIDN'T KNOW ANY SIGN LANGUAGE, AND I GOT ALONG 45 00:02:28:15 --:--:--:-- GESTURING. 46 00:02:29:28 --:--:--:-- I DIDN'T KNOW ANY DEAF PEOPLE UNTIL...LET'S SEE, 47 00:02:33:15 --:--:--:-- ABOUT THE LAST YEAR AT CLARK SCHOOL. 48 00:02:37:00 --:--:--:-- THEY WERE HOSTING A BASKETBALL TOURNAMENT, WHICH ALL THESE 49 00:02:41:09 00:02:43:00 DEAF SCHOOLS CAME INTO TOWN. 50 00:02:47:15 --:--:--:-- ALL THE OTHER STUDENTS HAD GONE HOME, LEAVING JUST ME. 51 00:02:52:00 --:--:--:-- I WAS WORKING TICKET SALES. 52 00:02:54:05 --:--:--:-- SO THAT'S WHY THEY LET ME STAY, SO I SAT THERE 53 00:02:57:23 00:02:59:11 AT THE TABLE, AND... 54 00:03:03:15 --:--:--:-- THEY WOULD SAY SOMETHING, AND I WOULD GO, UM... 55 00:03:07:00 --:--:--:-- "THE COST IS A DOLLAR, BUT I CAN'T SIGN." 56 00:03:11:14 --:--:--:-- AND THEY WOULD LOOK AT ME, AND I'D GO "ONE DOLLAR?" 57 00:03:14:27 --:--:--:-- IT'S LIKE A DEAF PERSON TALKING TO A PERSON 58 00:03:17:15 --:--:--:-- WHO'S DEAF WHO SIGNS. 59 00:03:19:00 00:03:22:15 AND THEY'RE GOING, "THE GUY CAN ONLY READ LIPS AND..." 60 00:03:25:15 --:--:--:-- THEY SEEM TO HAVE SUCH AN EASY TIME OF IT. 61 00:03:28:29 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, I HAD TO ALWAYS STRUGGLE WITH MY FRIENDS 62 00:03:31:08 --:--:--:-- AND ASK THEM TO REPEAT LIKE, "WHAT DID YOU SAY? 63 00:03:33:16 --:--:--:-- WHAT DID YOU SAY?" 64 00:03:36:12 --:--:--:-- I WAS 15 YEARS OLD. I REMEMBER THIS CLEARLY. 65 00:03:41:15 --:--:--:-- IT WAS AT NIGHT, AND I WAS IN BED PRACTICING THE ALPHABET BY 66 00:03:45:00 --:--:--:-- MYSELF, MAYBE "A" TO "F" OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. 67 00:03:49:15 --:--:--:-- I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THE ENTIRE ALPHABET AT THAT TIME. 68 00:03:53:17 --:--:--:-- AFTER CLARKE SCHOOL--I WENT THERE TO EIGHTH GRADE-- 69 00:03:57:00 --:--:--:-- AND I WENT TO A HIGH SCHOOL IN PENNSYLVANIA, 70 00:03:59:00 --:--:--:-- A HEARING SCHOOL. 71 00:04:00:15 --:--:--:-- AND I WAS THE ONLY DEAF CHILD THERE. 72 00:04:02:15 --:--:--:-- THERE WAS NO INTERPRETER. 73 00:04:05:07 --:--:--:-- IT WAS A BOARDING SCHOOL, PRIVATE SCHOOL, SO VERY STRONG 74 00:04:08:16 --:--:--:-- ARTS PROGRAM. 75 00:04:10:25 --:--:--:-- AND THAT'S WHERE I REALLY GOT MY INITIAL INTEREST IN POETRY, 76 00:04:14:13 --:--:--:-- WHICH IT WAS WRITTEN POETRY, NOT, YOU KNOW, THE TYPE 77 00:04:17:22 --:--:--:-- OF EXPRESSIVE POETRY THAT I DO. 78 00:04:22:13 --:--:--:-- A LOT OF MY FRIENDS WERE THE FOREIGN STUDENTS BECAUSE THEY 79 00:04:25:25 --:--:--:-- WERE ENGLISH INHIBITED AS WELL. 80 00:04:28:26 --:--:--:-- SO WE HAD TO GESTURE BACK AND FORTH. 81 00:04:31:03 --:--:--:-- [SIREN IN BACKGROUND] 82 00:04:34:21 --:--:--:-- I THINK IT WAS THE NAD, THEY HAD THEIR HUNDREDTH 83 00:04:39:17 --:--:--:-- CONFERENCE IN OHIO, AND I SAW ALL THESE DEAF PEOPLE SIGNING, 84 00:04:43:00 --:--:--:-- AND I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT. 85 00:04:44:19 --:--:--:-- AND I ADMIT THERE WERE A LOT OF PRETTY GIRLS, SO THAT WAS 86 00:04:47:07 00:04:49:00 SORT OF A MOTIVATION. 87 00:04:52:25 --:--:--:-- SO THE NAD CONFERENCE--I WENT THERE BECAUSE I HAD A FRIEND 88 00:04:57:17 --:--:--:-- OF MINE FROM CLARKE SCHOOL, AND HE HAD A DEAF SISTER, 89 00:05:02:00 --:--:--:-- AN OLDER DEAF SISTER WHO HAD BEEN INVOLVED IN NAD, 90 00:05:05:06 --:--:--:-- AND SHE SAID, "YOU KNOW, YOU SHOULD GO." 91 00:05:08:15 --:--:--:-- I THOUGHT, "OK. 92 00:05:10:11 --:--:--:-- "IF THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF DEAF PEOPLE THERE, 93 00:05:12:15 --:--:--:-- OH, THAT WOULD BE GREAT" BECAUSE AT HIGH SCHOOL, I WAS ALL 94 00:05:14:20 --:--:--:-- ON MY OWN, BUT TO BE THERE, I THOUGHT "GREAT!" 95 00:05:18:15 --:--:--:-- AND WHAT A DIFFERENCE! 96 00:05:21:15 --:--:--:-- THERE 24 HOURS, DAY IN AND DAY OUT WITH JUST DEAF PEOPLE 97 00:05:26:15 --:--:--:-- AND THEN GOING BACK TO AS HIGH SCHOOL SENIOR. 98 00:05:31:00 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, I COULDN'T LIVE THAT WAY. 99 00:05:33:00 --:--:--:-- I JUST COULDN'T. 100 00:05:35:15 --:--:--:-- SO I STARTED LOOKING INTO DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES-- 101 00:05:38:15 00:05:41:00 GALLAUDET OR NTID. 102 00:05:43:15 --:--:--:-- MY TEACHERS RECOMMENDED THAT I GO TO RIT BECAUSE OF THEIR 103 00:05:46:21 --:--:--:-- STRONG PHOTOGRAPHY PROGRAM. 104 00:05:49:07 --:--:--:-- SO I THOUGHT, "YES," AND I VISITED GALLAUDET. 105 00:05:53:10 --:--:--:-- I ENDED UP PICKING NTID... 106 00:05:57:26 --:--:--:-- AND IT WAS A COMPLETELY NEW WORLD FOR ME. 107 00:06:00:23 --:--:--:-- I FELT THAT I WAS B-A-D-- BORN-AGAIN DEAF. HA HA! 108 00:06:05:15 --:--:--:-- SO, I MEAN, THE FIRST DAY-- 109 00:06:08:07 --:--:--:-- AND NOW, REMEMBER, THIS WAS THE EIGHTIES. 110 00:06:10:10 --:--:--:-- I HAD MY LITTLE SKINNY NECKTIE, MY PANTS, YOU KNOW, 111 00:06:14:03 --:--:--:-- MY HAIRDO, KIND OF PUNK AT THAT TIME. 112 00:06:19:21 --:--:--:-- IMMEDIATELY, I STARTED MEETING SOME DEAF PEOPLE, GOING, 113 00:06:21:15 --:--:--:-- "ARE YOU DEAF OR HEARING?" AND I SAID, "WELL, I'M DEAF." 114 00:06:23:00 --:--:--:-- AND THEY WENT, "OH, YOU DON'T LOOK DEAF." 115 00:06:26:28 --:--:--:-- IT'S BECAUSE I WASN'T A "D" DEAF AT THAT POINT. 116 00:06:31:01 --:--:--:-- HAD IT WRITTEN ALL OVER ME THAT I WAS A LITTLE "d" DEAF. 117 00:06:35:00 --:--:--:-- AND THEY COULD SEE IT. I MEAN IT WAS OBVIOUS 118 00:06:37:00 --:--:--:-- IN EVERYTHING ABOUT ME, HOW I BEHAVED. 119 00:06:39:00 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, THEY CAUGHT ON RIGHT AWAY, 120 00:06:42:00 --:--:--:-- REALLY WAS A MEMORABLE MOMENT FOR ME. 121 00:06:46:15 --:--:--:-- AND I REMEMBER I GOT INVOLVED IN LANGUAGE, 122 00:06:50:14 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, TOTALLY INVOLVED IN LANGUAGE. 123 00:06:54:15 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, PEOPLE MIGHT'VE MADE FUN OF ME BECAUSE OF MY 124 00:06:57:00 --:--:--:-- SIGN LANGUAGE. 125 00:06:58:13 --:--:--:-- WELL THAT'S FINE. I CAN TAKE THE TEASING. 126 00:07:00:26 00:07:05:01 BUT I FELT HONORED TO BE LOOKED AT AND ACCEPTED. 127 00:07:11:00 --:--:--:-- THE ONE THING THAT WAS THERE WAS THEATER. 128 00:07:13:15 --:--:--:-- IN THE FALL, I WAS INVOLVED IN A PLAY CALLED "THE TEMPEST." 129 00:07:18:15 --:--:--:-- AND I PLAYED THE CHARACTER CALIBAN, WHO'S HALF-ANIMAL, 130 00:07:22:15 --:--:--:-- HALF-MAN. 131 00:07:24:06 --:--:--:-- AND THEY PICKED ME BECAUSE I COULDN'T SIGN. 132 00:07:26:14 --:--:--:-- THEY SAID, "WOW, YOU'RE A LOUSY SIGNER. 133 00:07:28:10 --:--:--:-- YOU'LL BE PERFECT! DON'T LEARN ANY." 134 00:07:31:05 --:--:--:-- AND TO THIS DAY, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A COMPLIMENT 135 00:07:33:15 --:--:--:-- OR AN INSULT. I STILL DON'T KNOW. 136 00:07:36:26 --:--:--:-- WHAT A GREAT EXPERIENCE. 137 00:07:38:21 --:--:--:-- PATRICK GRAYBILL WAS THERE, GET TO WORK WITH HIM AND SEE 138 00:07:42:01 --:--:--:-- HIS PROCESS, AND IT WAS INCREDIBLE, PLUS ALL THESE 139 00:07:45:10 --:--:--:-- OTHER--THE DEAF STUDENTS AND ACTORS WHO HAD AN ENORMOUS 140 00:07:48:26 --:--:--:-- IMPACT ON ME. 141 00:07:50:02 --:--:--:-- IT WAS INCREDIBLE! 142 00:07:53:05 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, THE FUNNY THING IS, AT THAT TIME I THOUGHT I WAS 143 00:07:55:24 --:--:--:-- PRETTY SKILLED, AND OF COURSE I WASN'T. 144 00:07:58:28 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, BEFORE I WAS THINKING LIKE, "OH, YEAH!" 145 00:08:01:08 --:--:--:-- BUT YOU KNOW, I WAS YOUNG, KIND OF YOUNG AND FOOLISH 146 00:08:04:15 00:08:07:15 AND ARROGANT. HA HA HA! 147 00:08:13:00 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PHYSICALITY 148 00:08:15:13 --:--:--:-- IN THE COMMUNICATION, THAT COMES FROM THEATER. 149 00:08:18:04 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, IN HIGH SCHOOL, I WAS IN A PLAY 150 00:08:20:15 --:--:--:-- "ONCE UPON A MATTRESS." 151 00:08:22:11 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, "ONCE UPON A MATTRESS," THE PRINCESS 152 00:08:25:07 --:--:--:-- AND THE PEA STORY. 153 00:08:27:08 --:--:--:-- I WAS THE KING, AND THE KING CAN'T TALK. 154 00:08:30:10 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW EVERYBODY IGNORES THE KING, AND THEN THEY HAVE 155 00:08:35:22 --:--:--:-- THE JESTER THERE, AND HE TALKS FOR THE KING. 156 00:08:39:06 --:--:--:-- SO I HAD LINES...AND THE DIRECTOR SAID, "THAT'S PERFECT. 157 00:08:44:24 --:--:--:-- DO GESTURES FOR THAT." 158 00:08:46:24 --:--:--:-- AND THAT'S WHERE I FIRST STARTED EXPERIMENTING WITH 159 00:08:49:15 --:--:--:-- THE IDEA OF TAKING WORDS AND MAKING THEM PHYSICAL, MAKING 160 00:08:54:00 --:--:--:-- IT KINETIC. 161 00:08:55:17 --:--:--:-- THAT KINETIC ENERGY, THE MOVEMENT. 162 00:08:58:11 --:--:--:-- SO THERE WAS A SONG THAT I HAD TO TEACH MY SON, THE PRINCE, 163 00:09:02:15 --:--:--:-- ABOUT THE FACTS OF LIFE. 164 00:09:04:00 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, THE BIRDS AND THE BEES AND ALL THIS, BUT YOU 165 00:09:07:15 --:--:--:-- DON'T TELL THEM STRAIGHT OUT. 166 00:09:09:00 --:--:--:-- AND HE'S GOING, "DAD, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?" 167 00:09:12:00 --:--:--:-- I WOULD ACT IT OUT. 168 00:09:13:15 --:--:--:-- I'D BE LIKE THE LITTLE BIRD IN THE FLOWER COLLECTING 169 00:09:16:00 --:--:--:-- THE POLLEN, AND THEN THERE'D BE A BABY. 170 00:09:19:15 --:--:--:-- AND GESTURING OUT THE WHOLE THING, AND HE'S SAYING, 171 00:09:22:00 00:09:23:22 "I DON'T UNDERSTAND." 172 00:09:25:15 --:--:--:-- MAYBE HE WAS MY FIRST INTERPRETER, BECAUSE IT WAS 173 00:09:29:15 --:--:--:-- AGE OF I7--I WAS STILL GESTURING THE WHOLE THING AWAY. 174 00:09:35:00 --:--:--:-- AND FOR THE WHOLE SHOW, GESTURING, AND I THOUGHT, 175 00:09:37:15 00:09:39:15 "THAT'S COMMUNICATION." 176 00:09:41:24 --:--:--:-- A TEACHER WOULD ASK ME, "HOW DO I DO THIS?" 177 00:09:44:00 --:--:--:-- AND I'D GO, "WELL, LIKE THIS." 178 00:09:45:15 --:--:--:-- AND THEY GO, "OH, I NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT." 179 00:09:48:13 --:--:--:-- SO I THOUGHT, WELL, YOU KNOW, I'VE GOT SOMETHING 180 00:09:51:27 --:--:--:-- SPECIAL INSIDE. 181 00:09:54:18 --:--:--:-- SO I REALLY TOOK IT FROM THERE. 182 00:09:57:13 --:--:--:-- AND THEN, I SAW BERNARD BRAGG. 183 00:09:59:28 --:--:--:-- THIS WAS BACK TO THE NAD, THE FIRST TIME I SAW 184 00:10:02:26 --:--:--:-- BERNARD BRAGG WAS THERE. 185 00:10:04:11 00:10:08:12 HE WAS GIVING A WORKSHOP ON VISUAL VERNACULAR--V.V. 186 00:10:11:00 --:--:--:-- SO, THE WORKSHOP WAS WITH BERNARD BRAGG, AND I REMEMBER 187 00:10:14:03 --:--:--:-- THIS CLEARLY. 188 00:10:15:13 --:--:--:-- I DIDN'T KNOW ANY SIGN LANGUAGE STILL, EVEN THOUGH I 189 00:10:17:22 --:--:--:-- WAS MEETING ALL THESE DEAF PEOPLE. 190 00:10:19:07 --:--:--:-- AND I WAS SITTING IN THE WORKSHOP. 191 00:10:22:00 --:--:--:-- BERNARD DID THE HUNTER STORY. 192 00:10:25:15 --:--:--:-- AND I WENT, "LOOK AT THIS. HE'S STAYING ALL IN ONE PLACE. 193 00:10:29:01 --:--:--:-- "BUT THERE'S DIFFERENT CHARACTERS HAPPENING ALL 194 00:10:31:15 --:--:--:-- IN THIS ONE SPACE." 195 00:10:33:00 --:--:--:-- AND I UNDERSTOOD IT SO CLEARLY. 196 00:10:34:15 --:--:--:-- IT WAS LIKE WATCHING A MOVIE. 197 00:10:37:00 --:--:--:-- I WAS LIKE, "WOW. I UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING." 198 00:10:39:20 --:--:--:-- IT WAS EXCITING. AND THE MINUTE IT WAS FINISHED, I STARTED 199 00:10:42:27 --:--:--:-- THINKING I WANT TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING. 200 00:10:45:00 --:--:--:-- AND I THOUGHT, "AH, I GOT A STORY ABOUT A MAN WHO 201 00:10:48:19 --:--:--:-- FINDS A MUMMY." 202 00:10:51:03 --:--:--:-- SO I WAS USING HIS TECHNIQUE OF GOING BACK-AND-FORTH 203 00:10:54:00 --:--:--:-- BETWEEN THE CHARACTERS AND ALL THAT, AND I PRACTICED IT AND I 204 00:10:56:27 --:--:--:-- CAME UP TO HIM, AND I SAID, "MR. BRAGG, LOOK AT THIS." 205 00:11:01:18 --:--:--:-- I DID MY LITTLE THING, AND HE GOES, "OH, YEAH, GOOD JOB." 206 00:11:04:04 --:--:--:-- AND HE WALKS AWAY, AND THAT WAS IT. 207 00:11:06:13 --:--:--:-- BUT I REMEMBER THAT. 208 00:11:07:20 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, THAT TECHNIQUE IS STILL SOMETHING I USE 209 00:11:10:00 --:--:--:-- TO THIS DAY, THAT'S THE WHOLE FOUNDATION. 210 00:11:12:19 00:11:16:03 WITHOUT THAT, THINGS WOULD BE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FOR ME. 211 00:11:19:00 --:--:--:-- NO, THAT'S RIGHT. 212 00:11:20:08 --:--:--:-- I WAS ORAL GROWING UP, BUT I LOVE TO READ. 213 00:11:25:03 --:--:--:-- IT'S WHAT I HAD WAS BOOKS. 214 00:11:27:07 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, THAT'S SOMETHING I GOT FROM 215 00:11:28:21 --:--:--:-- CLARKE SCHOOL-- SOMETHING ANYWAY. 216 00:11:30:14 00:11:32:00 YAY, CLARKE! 217 00:11:34:00 --:--:--:-- BUT I LOVED COMIC BOOKS, 218 00:11:37:19 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, BECAUSE OF THE PICTURES. 219 00:11:39:22 --:--:--:-- YOU WOULD SEE THESE LITTLE FRAMES AND PANELS. 220 00:11:42:02 --:--:--:-- SOME WERE BIG, SOME WERE SMALL. 221 00:11:44:02 --:--:--:-- IT WAS THE EXCITING PART WOULD GET BIG, 222 00:11:46:22 --:--:--:-- AND THEN YOU'D HAVE THE WORDS AND THE PICTURES, 223 00:11:49:03 --:--:--:-- THE WHOLE GRAPHIC THING ALL AT ONCE-- 224 00:11:51:13 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, A GRAPHIC LANGUAGE ALL RIGHT THERE. 225 00:11:54:00 --:--:--:-- THAT REALLY INFLUENCED A LOT. 226 00:11:56:15 --:--:--:-- "BATMAN" WAS MY FAVORITE. I LOVED BATMAN. 227 00:11:59:28 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, VERY SIMPLE, BUT ALSO VERY EMOTIONAL--COULD REALLY 228 00:12:03:00 --:--:--:-- CONNECT WITH HIM. 229 00:12:05:13 00:12:08:00 SO I DID A LOT OF READING AND... 230 00:12:10:00 --:--:--:-- I COULD MAKE THIS INTO GESTURES, YOU KNOW. 231 00:12:13:09 --:--:--:-- INSTEAD OF HAVING THE CARTOON BALLOON WHERE THEY TALK, I COULD 232 00:12:17:21 --:--:--:-- DO THE GESTURES BECAUSE THEY HAD THE LANGUAGE 233 00:12:20:00 --:--:--:-- THERE, YOU KNOW. 234 00:12:21:15 --:--:--:-- THEY WOULD SAY, LIKE, "OH, NO!" 235 00:12:24:00 --:--:--:-- SO I WAS ABLE TO CONNECT ALL THE LANGUAGE WITH THE VISUAL PART. 236 00:12:31:19 --:--:--:-- I REMEMBER AT CLARKE, I READ A BOOK, 237 00:12:34:15 --:--:--:-- I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT TITLE. "OF MICE AND MEN"? 238 00:12:38:00 --:--:--:-- OR "MEN AND MICE" OR WHATEVER-- "OF MICE AND MEN," 239 00:12:41:00 --:--:--:-- YEAH, THAT'S WHAT IT IS. 240 00:12:43:00 --:--:--:-- AND I REMEMBER READING THAT AND GOING "WOW... 241 00:12:48:00 --:--:--:-- THAT'S REALLY SOMETHING." 242 00:12:49:15 --:--:--:-- IT HAD A HUGE, HUGE IMPACT ON ME. 243 00:12:52:15 --:--:--:-- I WAS FASCINATED, HOOKED BY THAT FROM THEN ON. 244 00:12:55:00 --:--:--:-- I WANTED TO READ AS MUCH AS I COULD. 245 00:12:58:00 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, POEMS ARE VERY SHORT. 246 00:13:01:15 --:--:--:-- BACK THEN, I HAD NO PATIENCE. 247 00:13:03:23 00:13:08:00 YOU KNOW, I LIKE TO GET RIGHT TO THE GIST OF THINGS, YOU KNOW. 248 00:13:09:15 --:--:--:-- FOR ME, POETRY IS LIKE YOU GATHER UP ALL THIS STUFF, 249 00:13:14:01 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, LIKE MAYBE ABOUT A ROSE, AND THEN YOU 250 00:13:16:26 --:--:--:-- PLANT THE SEED, OR YOU TAKE IT AND YOU DISTILL IT RIGHT DOWN 251 00:13:22:15 --:--:--:-- TO ITS ESSENCE. 252 00:13:24:15 --:--:--:-- THAT'S WHAT POETRY IS FOR ME. 253 00:13:27:19 --:--:--:-- SO, I STARTED WRITING FOR MYSELF AND STARTED 254 00:13:30:04 --:--:--:-- TO EXPERIMENT--THIS WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL. 255 00:13:31:15 --:--:--:-- I TOOK A POETRY CLASS, AND I STARTED WRITING 256 00:13:34:11 --:--:--:-- AND BORROWING DIFFERENT TYPES OF STYLES--e.e. cummings, 257 00:13:40:00 --:--:--:-- PLAYING WITH WORDS. 258 00:13:41:18 --:--:--:-- IN COLLEGE, I GOT MUCH MORE, YOU KNOW, DEEPLY INVOLVED. 259 00:13:44:15 00:13:46:15 THAT'S WHERE IT STARTED. 260 00:13:50:26 --:--:--:-- TO BE HONEST, WHAT I SAID IN CLASS AND THE TEACHER WOULD BE 261 00:13:54:20 --:--:--:-- EXPLAINING STUFF, I'D MISS AN AWFUL LOT OF IT, 262 00:13:57:00 --:--:--:-- AND SOMETIMES I'D JUST COME UP WITH MY OWN TECHNIQUE OR I'D ASK 263 00:13:59:15 --:--:--:-- ANOTHER STUDENT, "LET ME SEE YOURS" 264 00:14:02:00 --:--:--:-- OR "LET ME SEE YOURS." 265 00:14:03:17 --:--:--:-- AND I REMEMBER IN THIS ONE CLASS, WE WERE SUPPOSED TO 266 00:14:05:26 --:--:--:-- WRITE SOMETHING AND THEN GET UP AND SPEAK IT. 267 00:14:09:15 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, WROTE THIS THING, BUT THEN HOW DO I SPEAK IT? 268 00:14:14:15 --:--:--:-- SO I GAVE IT TO THE TEACHER OR HAVE ANOTHER STUDENT READ 269 00:14:17:15 --:--:--:-- IT FOR ME. 270 00:14:19:00 --:--:--:-- AND SOMETIMES THEY WOULD, YOU KNOW, KIND OF LIKE ASK 271 00:14:21:00 --:--:--:-- ME QUESTIONS AND STUFF. 272 00:14:22:15 --:--:--:-- AND I JUST KINDA FELT LIKE, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW. 273 00:14:25:15 --:--:--:-- I WASN'T GETTING A LOT OF FEEDBACK ON IT. 274 00:14:28:00 --:--:--:-- I DIDN'T ABLE TO SEE IMAGES. 275 00:14:30:23 --:--:--:-- I DIDN'T SEE ANY RHYTHM IN THE LINES OR ANYTHING. 276 00:14:33:15 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, PEOPLE WOULD GIVE ME A THUMBS UP, AND THAT WOULD 277 00:14:35:25 --:--:--:-- BE ABOUT IT. 278 00:14:37:13 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, THEY'D GO "YEP," THUMBS UP. 279 00:14:39:18 --:--:--:-- WELL, THAT WASN'T SATISFYING TO ME. 280 00:14:42:00 --:--:--:-- SO I STARTED PLAYING WITH THE WORDS AGAIN, 281 00:14:45:04 --:--:--:-- AND THEY SAID, "YOU HAVE A 7-COUNT OR AN 8-COUNT" OR... 282 00:14:48:20 --:--:--:-- SO, OK. 283 00:14:50:05 --:--:--:-- SO I'D STRUGGLE WITH THIS AND TRY TO FIGURE IT OUT, 284 00:14:52:17 --:--:--:-- AND I ENJOYED THE CHALLENGE. 285 00:14:55:03 --:--:--:-- AND THEN I'D HAVE THIS PRODUCT, AND YOU KNOW THEY'D 286 00:14:57:18 --:--:--:-- SAY, "IT'S NICE." 287 00:14:58:25 00:15:02:08 BUT THEN WHEN I WENT TO COLLEGE, EVERYTHING CHANGED. 288 00:15:04:15 --:--:--:-- NOPE, I NEVER TOOK A POETRY COURSE AT RIT OR NTID AT ALL. 289 00:15:09:23 00:15:12:00 YOU KNOW, I KEPT MY WRITINGS. 290 00:15:16:00 --:--:--:-- IN COLLEGE, MY FIRST INTEREST WAS ABOUT LEARNING 291 00:15:18:00 --:--:--:-- SIGN LANGUAGE. 292 00:15:19:15 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, THAT WAS SO FASCINATING TO ME, 293 00:15:21:22 --:--:--:-- GETTING INVOLVED IN THEATER AND ACTING, PLUS I WAS INVOLVED 294 00:15:24:15 --:--:--:-- IN A RELATIONSHIP. 295 00:15:26:19 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, ANOTHER DEAF PERSON WHO WAS MY FIRST TIME 296 00:15:30:17 --:--:--:-- WITH DEAF CULTURE BEING EXPOSED TO THAT, BANGING 297 00:15:33:27 --:--:--:-- ON THE TABLE AND GETTING PEOPLE'S ATTENTION. 298 00:15:36:22 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, THE CULTURAL NORMS FOR DEAF PEOPLE AND LEARNING 299 00:15:39:19 --:--:--:-- THOSE THINGS AND THEN NAVIGATING MY WAY 300 00:15:42:02 --:--:--:-- THROUGH THAT. 301 00:15:43:15 --:--:--:-- I NEVER DID ANYTHING LIKE LOOK DOWN ON IT OR GO, "OH, 302 00:15:46:15 --:--:--:-- WHY ARE YOU DOING IT THAT WAY." 303 00:15:48:00 --:--:--:-- TO ME, IT WAS A GREAT LEARNING EXPERIENCE. 304 00:15:51:00 --:--:--:-- AND, YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH I WAS ORAL AND LEARNING 305 00:15:53:15 --:--:--:-- SIGN LANGUAGE, I COULD SEE THINGS. 306 00:15:57:01 --:--:--:-- LIKE, I REMEMBER HOW PEOPLE LOOKED AT ME AND STUFF, 307 00:15:59:26 --:--:--:-- AND I DON'T BLAME THEM. 308 00:16:01:10 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, I WAS JUST PRETTY CLUELESS. 309 00:16:03:10 --:--:--:-- NOW I LOOK BACK AND I GO, "OH, I UNDERSTAND THE CULTURE SO MUCH 310 00:16:07:00 00:16:08:15 BETTER NOW." 311 00:16:11:15 --:--:--:-- MY PARENTS ACCEPTED IT RIGHT AWAY. 312 00:16:14:00 --:--:--:-- I WOULD SIGN AT HOME AND THEY WOULD GO, "OH, WELL, YOU'RE 313 00:16:16:00 --:--:--:-- LEARNING SIGNS." 314 00:16:17:15 --:--:--:-- OR THEY'D GO, "WELL, THERE'S A NEW SIGN." 315 00:16:20:10 --:--:--:-- PLUS MY MOM SAYS, "WOW, YOUR WRITING HAS 316 00:16:22:04 --:--:--:-- IMPROVED SO MUCH." 317 00:16:23:18 --:--:--:-- YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. MY WRITING GOT WAY BETTER! 318 00:16:27:28 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, BECAUSE I WAS AWARE OF THE LANGUAGE, AND I STARTED 319 00:16:31:24 --:--:--:-- LEARNING ABOUT THE GRAMMAR AND GOING, "OH, SO THIS IS HOW 320 00:16:34:19 --:--:--:-- ENGLISH WORKS." 321 00:16:36:14 --:--:--:-- AND THAT HELPED ME TO BE ABLE TO CLARIFY, YOU KNOW, HOW WORD 322 00:16:41:08 --:--:--:-- ENDINGS OR GRAMMAR OR SYNTAX OR ALL THOSE THINGS LIKE-- 323 00:16:46:13 --:--:--:-- BEFORE THEY JUST, YOU KNOW, HIT ME WITH STUFF. 324 00:16:48:29 --:--:--:-- NOW I REALLY UNDERSTOOD IT, AND THAT REALLY HELP MY WRITING 325 00:16:52:00 --:--:--:-- A GREAT DEAL. 326 00:16:53:12 00:16:55:00 PEOPLE WERE SHOCKED BY THAT. 327 00:16:57:00 --:--:--:-- PROOF IS THERE, AND THIS IS WHAT HELPS. YOU KNOW, THE POWER 328 00:17:01:16 00:17:04:05 WAS THERE ALL ALONG. 329 00:17:06:25 --:--:--:-- PEOPLE OFTEN ASK THAT QUESTION, OR OFTEN I ASK MYSELF... 330 00:17:13:10 --:--:--:-- "YOU KNOW, WHAT'S PRESET? 331 00:17:16:00 --:--:--:-- "WHERE'S THE SPRINGBOARD? 332 00:17:18:16 00:17:20:15 WHAT'S THE JUMPING-OFF PLACE?" 333 00:17:22:00 --:--:--:-- I THINK ALLEN GINSBERG WAS A JUMPING-OFF PLACE, BUT WHAT 334 00:17:25:19 --:--:--:-- WAS THE LADDER TO GET UP TO THAT SPRINGBOARD? 335 00:17:30:09 --:--:--:-- IN THE FIRST TWO YEARS OF COLLEGE, I WAS 336 00:17:32:22 --:--:--:-- INVOLVED WITH A LOT OF THEATER, VERY 337 00:17:37:00 --:--:--:-- HEAVILY INVOLVED. 338 00:17:39:14 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, THAT LAID THE GROUNDWORK FOR--YOU KNOW, 339 00:17:41:21 --:--:--:-- WE'D GO TO PARTIES AND WE'D SAY, "WHY DON'T WE HAVE 340 00:17:43:28 00:17:45:15 A PERFORMANCE PARTY?" 341 00:17:50:00 --:--:--:-- DENNIS BASINSKI AND WARREN MILLER AND MIKE HOLMAN-- 342 00:17:57:15 --:--:--:-- WE'D ALL GET TOGETHER. 343 00:18:01:07 --:--:--:-- IT WASN'T JUST ME CREATING SOMETHING. 344 00:18:04:02 --:--:--:-- WE'D HAVE LIKE A HEAVY METAL COMIC BOOK 345 00:18:06:29 --:--:--:-- BECAUSE IT WAS VERY VISUAL, AND THEY'D HAVE THIS STORY THERE. 346 00:18:11:21 --:--:--:-- SOME GUY RIDING ON A BIRD OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT 347 00:18:15:25 --:--:--:-- AND LOOKING FOR FOOD OR ON A BUS, BUT THEN THE BUS GOES 348 00:18:22:03 --:--:--:-- UNDERWATER OR UNDERGROUND OR SOME--JUST THESE CRAZY STORIES. 349 00:18:26:26 --:--:--:-- SO WE'D HAVE A PARTY DOWN IN THE CELLAR, AND WE WOULD, YOU 350 00:18:30:26 --:--:--:-- KNOW, BE DOING ALL THIS STUFF AND IT WAS GREAT FUN, AND ALL 351 00:18:33:11 --:--:--:-- OF A SUDDEN IT STARTED GETTING REALLY POPULAR 352 00:18:35:09 --:--:--:-- AND MORE AND MORE PEOPLE WERE COMING. 353 00:18:36:17 --:--:--:-- WE HAD TO WORK ON HOW ARE WE GONNA DO THESE TRANSLATIONS 354 00:18:39:20 --:--:--:-- AND YOU KNOW COMING UP WITH NEW IDEAS AND "REHEARSING" 355 00:18:44:19 --:--:--:-- THIS STUFF FOR THE AUDIENCE BECAUSE THINGS WERE GETTING 356 00:18:46:20 00:18:48:05 REALLY POPULAR. 357 00:18:50:15 --:--:--:-- AND THEN, WE HAD A MEETING. 358 00:18:55:20 --:--:--:-- LET ME SEE... LET ME GO BACK. 359 00:18:57:00 --:--:--:-- JIM? NO, YEAH, IT WAS JIM. 360 00:19:00:00 00:19:04:15 WE HAD THIS ONE MEETING, ONE OF THE LAST PARTIES. 361 00:19:10:15 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, THEY WERE JUST SILLY SHOWS AT THAT TIME. 362 00:19:13:15 --:--:--:-- THERE WASN'T ANYTHING REAL SERIOUS HAPPENING. 363 00:19:15:15 --:--:--:-- IT WAS JUST FOR FUN. 364 00:19:17:00 --:--:--:-- AND HE CAME UP TO ME AND HE SAID, "THIS IS REALLY 365 00:19:18:23 --:--:--:-- GOOD STUFF. THIS IS GREAT POETRY." 366 00:19:21:11 00:19:25:15 AND I WAS LIKE, "EXCUSE ME? BUT, UH, WHAT THE..." 367 00:19:30:15 --:--:--:-- I JUST KIND OF LOOKED AT HIM AND WENT, "NAH, 368 00:19:32:15 --:--:--:-- THIS GUY'S DRUNK." 369 00:19:35:00 --:--:--:-- SO I WENT ON, AND I'M TALKING TO MY FRIENDS, BUT HE KEPT 370 00:19:37:27 --:--:--:-- COMING UP. 371 00:19:39:17 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, I'D BE WALKING ALONG ON--OH, WHAT DO THEY CALL IT 372 00:19:42:29 --:--:--:-- OVER AT RIT, THE QUARTER-MILE? 373 00:19:44:26 --:--:--:-- IS THAT STILL THERE? 374 00:19:46:19 --:--:--:-- YEAH, I'D BE WALKING ALONG, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN HE'D BE 375 00:19:51:00 --:--:--:-- RIGHT THERE, AND I COULDN'T GET PAST HIM. 376 00:19:53:10 --:--:--:-- AND I'D BE LIKE, "AAH!" 377 00:19:55:00 --:--:--:-- I FELT LIKE TRAPPED IN HIS WEB OR SOMETHING. 378 00:19:58:15 --:--:--:-- SO HE'D GO, "YOU KNOW, THERE'S THIS, THERE'S THAT." 379 00:20:01:00 --:--:--:-- HE'D ASK ME ALL THESE QUESTIONS. 380 00:20:02:25 --:--:--:-- AND I STARTED TO LOOK AT THINGS IN A DIFFERENT WAY. 381 00:20:06:00 --:--:--:-- AND I WENT, "YOU KNOW, THIS GUY ISN'T DRUNK." 382 00:20:10:00 --:--:--:-- SO I STARTED PAYING ATTENTION TO HIM AND LISTENING TO HIM, 383 00:20:13:11 --:--:--:-- AND HE SAID, "YOU KNOW, YOU GOTTA COME AND SEE THIS 384 00:20:16:07 --:--:--:-- GREAT POET. HIS NAME IS ALLEN GINSBERG." 385 00:20:19:13 --:--:--:-- AND I REMEMBER THE NAME FROM HIGH SCHOOL. 386 00:20:21:10 --:--:--:-- WE TALKED ABOUT HIM IN CLASS A LITTLE BIT. 387 00:20:23:00 --:--:--:-- AND I SAID, "HE'S GONNA BE HERE?" 388 00:20:24:10 00:20:26:00 AND HE SAID, "YEAH." 389 00:20:30:00 --:--:--:-- ROBERT PANARA IS GONNA BE HOSTING HIM. 390 00:20:32:26 --:--:--:-- IT'S GONNA BE A TRANSLATION COURSE OR SOMETHING, 391 00:20:36:11 --:--:--:-- AND PATRICK GRAYBILL WILL BE THERE. 392 00:20:38:07 --:--:--:-- AND I THOUGHT, "THE TWO OF THEM MEETING. 393 00:20:40:02 --:--:--:-- THIS WILL BE GREAT. I HAVE TO DO THIS." 394 00:20:43:00 --:--:--:-- I CHANGED MY PLANS. 395 00:20:45:26 --:--:--:-- WHATEVER I WAS DOING THAT DAY, I DID A 360. 396 00:20:52:03 --:--:--:-- SO I WENT TO THIS, AND I SAT THERE AND I WATCHED AND I 397 00:20:54:22 --:--:--:-- REMEMBER THERE WERE TABLES OVER HERE AND TABLES OVER HERE, 398 00:20:58:06 --:--:--:-- AND OVER AT THIS TABLE THEY HAD A LITTLE BOWL 399 00:21:01:13 --:--:--:-- OF INCENSE BURNING. 400 00:21:04:28 --:--:--:-- HE HAD A LITTLE STICK THAT HE WAS TAPPING IT WITH. 401 00:21:09:13 --:--:--:-- AND AT FIRST, HE WAS KIND OF TAPPING IT IN RHYTHM. 402 00:21:11:28 --:--:--:-- I THOUGHT, "IS THAT SOMETHING YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO UNDERSTAND?" 403 00:21:15:06 --:--:--:-- BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW. THIS WAS 20 YEARS AGO. 404 00:21:16:28 --:--:--:-- I MEAN THEY HAD VIDEOTAPE TO PROVE HE JUST SAT THERE 405 00:21:19:18 --:--:--:-- TAPPING THIS THING. 406 00:21:21:15 00:21:24:02 AND I THOUGHT, "IS THAT KIND OF MUSIC?" 407 00:21:26:19 --:--:--:-- IS THAT THE FIRST POEM? 408 00:21:29:00 --:--:--:-- WHAT? OH! 409 00:21:30:25 --:--:--:-- I DON'T KNOW. WAS HE JUST MAKING IT UP OR WHAT? 410 00:21:35:15 --:--:--:-- BUT YEAH, HE WAS USING THAT AS RHYTHM. 411 00:21:40:13 --:--:--:-- AND I WAS FASCINATED. 412 00:21:42:01 --:--:--:-- I WENT, IN MY MIND, "THAT'S NOT LANGUAGE." 413 00:21:45:03 --:--:--:-- THEN I THOUGHT TWICE. MAYBE POETRY DOESN'T HAVE TO 414 00:21:48:00 --:--:--:-- BE LANGUAGE. 415 00:21:51:15 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, MAYBE YOU JUST HAVE THE WORD. 416 00:21:53:16 --:--:--:-- THE WORD BECOMES POETRY. 417 00:21:55:09 --:--:--:-- OR IS IT THE WORD THAT'S PART OF THE THING THAT BECOMES 418 00:21:57:20 --:--:--:-- POETRY, AND YOU JUST PLACE IT IN DIFFERENT WAYS? 419 00:22:04:00 --:--:--:-- THE MOST BASIC FOUNDATION, SIMPLE THING. 420 00:22:07:29 --:--:--:-- HE JUST STARTED WITH TAPPING. 421 00:22:13:12 --:--:--:-- AND THAT'S HOW HE BROUGHT UP HOWELL AND THE OTHER 422 00:22:16:15 --:--:--:-- "HYDROGEN JUKEBOX." 423 00:22:18:00 --:--:--:-- AND HE ASKED PEOPLE, "WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT MEANS?" 424 00:22:21:00 --:--:--:-- I REMEMBER PATRICK GRAYBILL CAME UP WITH SOMETHING, 425 00:22:25:25 --:--:--:-- A SIGN FOR "HYDROGEN JUKEBOX," WHERE HE SAID, "YOU HAVE THIS 426 00:22:28:15 --:--:--:-- "MUSIC MACHINE. 427 00:22:31:03 --:--:--:-- YOU PUT IN A COIN, AND YOUR MIND BLOWS." 428 00:22:34:02 --:--:--:-- AND I WAS LIKE, "OH, MY GOD." 429 00:22:37:00 --:--:--:-- I WAS BLOWN AWAY BY THAT. 430 00:22:39:08 --:--:--:-- I JUST WENT, "WOW!" 431 00:22:42:22 --:--:--:-- AND THEN THE AFTERSHOCK. HE SAID, "NOW DID YOU SEE THAT? 432 00:22:47:10 --:--:--:-- "THERE WERE NO WORDS WRITTEN THERE. 433 00:22:49:14 --:--:--:-- "IT WAS THE CONCEPT. 434 00:22:51:05 --:--:--:-- "IT WAS A CLEAR PICTURE. 435 00:22:53:05 --:--:--:-- "IT'S THE RHYTHM, THE CONCEPT. 436 00:22:55:04 --:--:--:-- THE LANGUAGE DOESN'T MATTER IF THE PICTURE IS CLEAR." 437 00:23:00:23 --:--:--:-- AND THEN FOR ME, THAT'S WHAT POETRY IS, AND I WAS LIKE, 438 00:23:03:15 --:--:--:-- "OH, MY GOD. 439 00:23:04:29 --:--:--:-- I SPENT ALL THIS TIME WRITING STUFF AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT 440 00:23:07:14 --:--:--:-- HOW TO TRANSLATE IT INTO SIGN LANGUAGE, 441 00:23:09:20 00:23:11:08 AND IT WASN'T WORKING. 442 00:23:16:15 --:--:--:-- I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT MY HAND BECOMES THE PAPER. 443 00:23:21:00 --:--:--:-- MY HANDS BECOME THE POETIC METER. 444 00:23:24:00 --:--:--:-- THE ENGLISH IS WRITTEN ON MY HANDS. 445 00:23:27:15 --:--:--:-- I'VE BEEN DOING IT COMPLETELY WRONG. 446 00:23:30:00 --:--:--:-- THAT'S WHY ENDED UP AFTER THAT LETTING GO OF IT-- 447 00:23:33:00 --:--:--:-- THE TAPPING, PLUS PATRICK GRAYBILL'S MODELING, ALL THIS 448 00:23:37:03 --:--:--:-- STUFF--I LET GO OF ALL MY OLD WAYS, AND I WENT, "YES, THIS IS RIGHT. 449 00:23:42:15 --:--:--:-- AND THEN WHEN WE GOT TOGETHER FOR THESE PARTIES AND WE LOOKED 450 00:23:44:15 --:--:--:-- AT THE MAGAZINE AND HOW I LIKE PICKED UP ON THAT 451 00:23:48:15 --:--:--:-- AND BECAME THAT, THAT'S WHAT PATRICK DID. 452 00:23:52:01 --:--:--:-- HE BECAME IT. 453 00:23:54:00 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, THE PRINCIPAL WAS EXACTLY THE SAME. 454 00:23:57:00 --:--:--:-- HE WAS MAKING THAT VISUAL MOVIE, AND I JUST WENT "WOW!" 455 00:24:01:20 00:24:03:19 IT DID. IT BLEW ME AWAY. 456 00:24:05:25 --:--:--:-- IF YOU SEE THAT VIDEO, YOU CAN SEE ME IN THE AUDIENCE ACTING 457 00:24:09:00 00:24:10:15 LIKE THIS... 458 00:24:17:00 --:--:--:-- I REMEMBER THAT FEELING SO CLEARLY. 459 00:24:19:15 00:24:22:07 IT BLEW ME AWAY. I'LL NEVER FORGET THAT DAY. 460 00:24:26:00 --:--:--:-- I WONDER IF EVERYONE IN THE ROOM FELT THAT MOMENT, 461 00:24:28:15 --:--:--:-- INCLUDING THE INTERPRETER. 462 00:24:30:05 00:24:32:00 KIP WEBSTER WAS THERE. 463 00:24:41:15 --:--:--:-- KIP WAS REALLY GOOD, VERY SKILLED. 464 00:24:44:25 --:--:--:-- BUT I GUESS THE POINT WAS THE PERFORMANCE, YOU KNOW, 465 00:24:48:27 --:--:--:-- WAS JUST BEAUTIFUL, BEING IN A VISUAL WAY, 466 00:24:53:05 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, HAVING TO LET GO JUST COMPLETELY LET GO, YEAH. 467 00:24:58:09 --:--:--:-- AFTER THAT MEETING, JIM CAME UP TO ME RIGHT AWAY. 468 00:25:02:12 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, JIM CAME UP TO ME. 469 00:25:04:01 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, HE'S A VERY STRATEGIC PERSON. 470 00:25:07:15 --:--:--:-- HE GOES STEP-BY-STEP, AND I KNEW THAT HE HAD SOME KIND 471 00:25:10:29 --:--:--:-- OF MASTER PLAN. 472 00:25:12:25 --:--:--:-- HE HAS ONE. 473 00:25:14:26 --:--:--:-- SO HE MAY DENY IT, BUT HE HAD ONE. 474 00:25:20:00 --:--:--:-- HE CAME UP TO ME AND HE SAID, "SO WHAT DID YOU THINK?" 475 00:25:22:25 --:--:--:-- AND I WAS LIKE, "WOW, THAT WAS AMAZING." 476 00:25:25:07 --:--:--:-- HE SAID, "WELL, HERE'S THE BOOK OF HIS WORK. 477 00:25:30:15 --:--:--:-- AND IT'S CALLED 'BIRDBRAIN.'" 478 00:25:32:15 --:--:--:-- AND SO THIS WAS MY FIRST OPPORTUNITY TO TRY AND LET GO 479 00:25:37:12 --:--:--:-- AND SEE WHAT I COULD DO WITH IT. 480 00:25:38:24 --:--:--:-- OH, IT WAS SO MUCH FUN. 481 00:25:41:10 00:25:44:22 I REMEMBER PLAYING WITH THINGS LIKE--OH, WHAT WAS IT? 482 00:25:48:15 --:--:--:-- BIRDBRAIN, THE OLD BIRD WALKING THROUGH THE DARK, 483 00:25:52:29 --:--:--:-- AND THEN THE BIRD... SEES SOMETHING, AND HE TAKES A BITE 484 00:25:58:08 --:--:--:-- OUT OF IT. 485 00:26:01:15 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, AND IT SAYS IT IN THE WORDS, 486 00:26:04:20 --:--:--:-- BUT I HAD THE FREEDOM TO START PLAYING WITH IT. 487 00:26:08:00 --:--:--:-- AND I REMEMBER THE MOVIE TECHNIQUES, THE HAND SHAPES-- 488 00:26:11:19 --:--:--:-- WELL, I HADN'T DONE THE HAND SHAPES YET. 489 00:26:13:25 --:--:--:-- THIS WAS ALL JUST PHYSICAL, THE BODY, YOU KNOW, STILL V.V., 490 00:26:18:17 --:--:--:-- THAT VISUAL VERNACULAR. IT WAS STILL A POEM. 491 00:26:20:15 00:26:23:00 PURE VISUAL VERNACULAR. 492 00:26:27:25 --:--:--:-- WHEN I DID THAT FIRST THING AT NAD, I WAS 15, AND THEN I WENT 493 00:26:31:27 --:--:--:-- TO THIS POETRY WORKSHOP AND I TOOK THE TECHNIQUES THAT I 494 00:26:34:18 00:26:37:00 HAD LEARNED FROM THEM AND TRIED TO APPLY THEM. 495 00:26:40:00 --:--:--:-- OH, YEAH, I DID ONE EARLY WORK. 496 00:26:44:00 --:--:--:-- I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A VIDEO OF IT, BUT IT WAS 497 00:26:46:00 00:26:47:15 VERY SIMPLE. 498 00:26:49:15 --:--:--:-- IT WAS ABOUT THIS BEATING AND DIRTY AIR 499 00:26:52:15 --:--:--:-- AND SMELLING SOMETHING AND THE DARKNESS AND FILTHY POLLUTION 500 00:26:58:15 --:--:--:-- AND COUGHING AND THEN SEEING THIS GREEN GLOWING THING, 501 00:27:02:15 --:--:--:-- AND ALL OF A SUDDEN IT BECAME ALIVE AND WRAPPED AROUND ME 502 00:27:08:15 --:--:--:-- AND PULSATED AND THEN CAME OUT INTO THIS GREAT BEAST, 503 00:27:15:16 --:--:--:-- THIS DRAGON THAT FLEW AWAY. 504 00:27:19:00 --:--:--:-- IT HAD A NEW LIFE. 505 00:27:20:15 00:27:24:00 SO THAT WAS THE VERY FIRST POEM THAT I DID. 506 00:27:26:15 --:--:--:-- THIS WAS RIGHT AFTER THE GINSBERG WORKSHOP... 507 00:27:31:00 --:--:--:-- AND JIM SAW THAT. 508 00:27:32:15 --:--:--:-- HE SAID, "YOU GOTTA SHOW THAT TO 509 00:27:34:00 --:--:--:-- THE HEARING COMMUNITY." 510 00:27:35:15 --:--:--:-- AND I WAS LIKE, "I DON'T KNOW." 511 00:27:37:00 --:--:--:-- HE SAID, "NO, NO, YOU GOTTA DO THAT." 512 00:27:39:00 --:--:--:-- AND HE GAVE ME THE "BIRDBRAIN" BOOK, AND I WOULD BUILD 513 00:27:43:13 --:--:--:-- OFF OF THAT. 514 00:27:44:28 --:--:--:-- BUT I KEPT THINKING, I KEPT GOING BACK TO GINSBERG. 515 00:27:47:26 --:--:--:-- "GIVE ME SOME OTHERS. 516 00:27:49:12 --:--:--:-- I MEAN ISN'T THERE ANY OTHERS?" 517 00:27:51:01 --:--:--:-- AND HE GOES, "THERE'S THIS WHOLE GROUP." 518 00:27:52:20 --:--:--:-- I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT THIS, THESE BEAT POETS. 519 00:27:57:02 --:--:--:-- I FOUND THIS ONE CARUSO THAT I JUST LOVED. HE WAS VERY DIRECT 520 00:28:00:27 00:28:02:15 AND MACHO AND... 521 00:28:06:15 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, I WAS YOUNG AND THE POET WAS YOUNG. WITH THE 522 00:28:10:23 --:--:--:-- OLDER GUYS, I COULDN'T REALLY RELATE TO, 523 00:28:12:12 --:--:--:-- BUT THE YOUNG ONES I COULD. 524 00:28:14:15 00:28:16:00 WELL, YOU KNOW, I WAS YOUNG. 525 00:28:18:15 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, I WANTED THAT KIND OF LIKE TOUGH KIND OF THING 526 00:28:22:12 --:--:--:-- AND SHOW THAT TO THE ROCHESTERIANS. 527 00:28:24:15 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE KIND OF STUFF THAT I WANT TO DO AND DO ALL 528 00:28:27:19 --:--:--:-- THESE DIFFERENT TRANSLATIONS AND, YOU KNOW, WORK A LITTLE 529 00:28:30:26 --:--:--:-- BIT OFF OF THAT AND DEVELOP MY OWN WORK AND... 530 00:28:35:15 --:--:--:-- YEAH, AND THEN THE CELLAR. 531 00:28:37:15 --:--:--:-- YEAH. WE DECIDED TO SET UP A BIRDBRAIN SOCIETY AT NTID. 532 00:28:43:00 --:--:--:-- THEY HAD THIS BAR THAT WAS VERY POPULAR. 533 00:28:48:06 --:--:--:-- IT WAS WEDNESDAY NIGHTS I THINK WHERE PEOPLE WOULD GO 534 00:28:50:23 --:--:--:-- DOWN THERE, ALL THESE DEAF PEOPLE WOULD DO LIKE THIS OPEN 535 00:28:53:17 --:--:--:-- MIC KIND OF THING. 536 00:28:55:10 --:--:--:-- WE DID POETRY. 537 00:28:58:14 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER WE DID ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT ACTS. 538 00:29:01:07 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, WE HAD THE HEAVY METAL ACT THAT WAS PRIVATE. 539 00:29:04:05 --:--:--:-- AND WE TOOK IT FROM THERE AND OPENED IT UP TO THE PUBLIC. 540 00:29:09:00 --:--:--:-- AND IT WAS GREAT... 541 00:29:12:27 --:--:--:-- BUT IT WAS SHORT-LIVED. 542 00:29:15:04 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, IT GOT RUINED BY "DYNASTY." 543 00:29:17:14 00:29:20:07 THAT TV PROGRAM KILLED IT. 544 00:29:25:15 --:--:--:-- THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME THERE WAS CAPTIONS ON TV. 545 00:29:28:06 --:--:--:-- SO EVERYBODY THAT WAS COMING TO THE CELLAR LEFT. 546 00:29:31:15 00:29:35:00 IT WAS DEAD. I MEAN, SCREW THEM. HA HA! 547 00:29:45:15 00:29:47:00 NO. 548 00:29:52:00 00:29:55:22 WE DID ADVERTISE THE POETRY SOME, YES. 549 00:29:59:15 --:--:--:-- WE DIDN'T CALL IT POETRY. IT WAS PERFORMANCE ART. 550 00:30:03:05 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, WE WERE SAYING, "NO, THIS IS PERFORMANCE ART." 551 00:30:06:26 --:--:--:-- AND PEOPLE WOULD SAY POETRY AND STORYTELLING, 552 00:30:09:15 --:--:--:-- BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE STILL KIND OF "WE DON'T KNOW 553 00:30:12:00 --:--:--:-- ABOUT THAT." 554 00:30:14:00 --:--:--:-- WITH THE TECHNIQUES, WE KNOW THAT THERE WERE SOME, YOU KNOW 555 00:30:17:16 --:--:--:-- THE HAND SHAPES, ABC STORIES. WE KNEW ABOUT THAT. 556 00:30:20:15 --:--:--:-- THAT'S NOT OUR FOCUS. YOU KNOW, WE WERE JUST PLAYING 557 00:30:24:15 --:--:--:-- AND ENJOYING OURSELVES. 558 00:30:26:00 --:--:--:-- WE WEREN'T THINKING ABOUT LABELING. 559 00:30:30:00 --:--:--:-- THE BIRDBRAIN SOCIETY-- WE HAD FLYERS MADE UP. 560 00:30:34:15 --:--:--:-- I STILL HAVE A POSTER AT HOME, AND I SAVED ALL THAT STUFF. 561 00:30:38:08 --:--:--:-- I SAVED EVERYTHING. 562 00:30:40:15 --:--:--:-- OH, YEAH, WE HAVE PICTURES, NOT OF THE GROUP 563 00:30:43:22 --:--:--:-- BUT OF THE ADVERTISEMENTS, WHO WERE THE PEOPLE 564 00:30:45:09 --:--:--:-- INVOLVED IN ALL THAT. 565 00:30:47:27 --:--:--:-- WRITERS & BOOKS, WHERE THEY HAD HEARING PEOPLE DOING THEIR 566 00:30:51:00 00:30:52:15 THING, TOO. 567 00:30:57:00 --:--:--:-- WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY VIDEOS TAPING IN THE CELLAR. 568 00:31:00:00 00:31:02:16 YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T KNOW. WE DIDN'T KNOW. 569 00:31:04:15 --:--:--:-- NO, NO PICTURES. 570 00:31:08:16 --:--:--:-- SO, THAT WAS THE BEGINNING OF THE PROCESS, AND JIM AGAIN 571 00:31:11:17 --:--:--:-- CAME UP TO ME AND SAID, "YOU GOTTA GO TO 572 00:31:13:19 --:--:--:-- "THE COMMUNITY, THE HEARING COMMUNITY. 573 00:31:15:25 --:--:--:-- THERE'S A PLACE CALLED WRITERS & BOOKS." 574 00:31:18:29 --:--:--:-- I PERFORMED WITH EMMETT THE FIRST TIME. 575 00:31:23:04 --:--:--:-- HE WAS A HEARING PERSON, YOU KNOW, HEARING POET. 576 00:31:28:25 00:31:32:23 HE WAS FROM GENESEE VALLEY SOCIETY. 577 00:31:37:15 --:--:--:-- THERE'S NOBODY SIGNING. 578 00:31:39:06 --:--:--:-- WHO'S GONNA BE ABLE TO VOICE MY SIGNING? 579 00:31:41:04 --:--:--:-- AND THAT'S WHERE I MET KENNY. 580 00:31:43:06 --:--:--:-- KENNY HAD BEEN IN THE CELLAR. YOU KNOW, HE SAT THERE. 581 00:31:46:12 --:--:--:-- WE HAD A FEW DRINKS TOGETHER, AND I GO, "WHO'S THAT 582 00:31:48:14 --:--:--:-- STRANGE GUY WITH THE BEARD OVER THERE?" 583 00:31:50:00 --:--:--:-- 'CAUSE HE WAS THE ONLY ONE WITH A BEARD AT THAT TIME. 584 00:31:52:00 --:--:--:-- EVERYBODY WAS-- IT WAS THE EIGHTIES. 585 00:31:53:20 --:--:--:-- NOBODY HAD A BEARD IN THE EIGHTIES EXCEPT FOR HIM. 586 00:31:57:27 --:--:--:-- SO HE KIND OF STOOD OUT. 587 00:31:59:18 --:--:--:-- SO WE NEVER REALLY TALKED OR ANYTHING. 588 00:32:02:23 --:--:--:-- JUST REMEMBER HIM BEING THERE AND KIND OF OBSERVING. 589 00:32:06:06 --:--:--:-- SO WE KIND OF LIKE SEE EACH OTHER, YOU KNOW, LIKE TWO LITTLE DOGS SNIFFING EACH 590 00:32:09:29 00:32:11:25 OTHER OUT KIND OF THING. 591 00:32:13:15 --:--:--:-- AND THEN JIM SAID, "NO, I'VE GOT A FRIEND THERE. 592 00:32:16:11 --:--:--:-- HE'LL GET IN TOUCH WITH YOU." 593 00:32:19:03 --:--:--:-- I DIDN'T CATCH HIS NAME OR ANYTHING. 594 00:32:21:27 --:--:--:-- BUT I REMEMBER IT WAS TIME TO GO OUT, 595 00:32:25:00 --:--:--:-- AND THERE'S THE GUY WITH THE BEARD! 596 00:32:29:15 --:--:--:-- "YOU'RE THAT GUY?" AND I WENT, "OH, YEAH." 597 00:32:31:15 --:--:--:-- OF COURSE, HE'D BE ONE OF JIM'S FRIENDS, AND JIM 598 00:32:34:00 --:--:--:-- KNOWS BEST. 599 00:32:36:29 --:--:--:-- SO I MET KENNY. 600 00:32:38:15 --:--:--:-- I SAID, "HAVE YOU EVER BEEN AN INTERPRETER?" 601 00:32:40:00 --:--:--:-- AND "NO." 602 00:32:42:00 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW I KNEW ALL THE INTERPRETERS WHO WERE INVOLVED 603 00:32:45:00 --:--:--:-- AND I'D NEVER SEEN HIM BEFORE, BUT I INVITED HIM INTO THE HOUSE 604 00:32:48:00 --:--:--:-- AND WE SAT DOWN, AND WE... 605 00:32:51:00 --:--:--:-- WE TALKED, AND I SHOWED HIM SOME OF THE EARLY POEMS-- 606 00:32:54:28 --:--:--:-- THAT DRAGON COMING OUT OR--OH, SEVERAL OF THEM. 607 00:33:01:00 --:--:--:-- SOMEHOW, WE STARTED GOING BACK AND FORTH, AND IMMEDIATELY 608 00:33:05:24 --:--:--:-- A BOND WAS MADE. 609 00:33:07:06 --:--:--:-- IT WAS HISTORY! 610 00:33:09:14 00:33:11:14 IT WAS HISTORY, DAMN IT! 611 00:33:15:00 --:--:--:-- SO I REMEMBER SEEING KENNY SITTING ON THE FLOOR HOLDING 612 00:33:19:06 --:--:--:-- A PIECE OF PAPER AND TALKING INTO A MIC. 613 00:33:22:18 --:--:--:-- I SAID, "YEAH, THAT'S THE WAY WE 614 00:33:24:18 --:--:--:-- STARTED DOING THAT." 615 00:33:26:12 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, WE WOULD TYPE IT UP, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD TALK IT BACK 616 00:33:30:10 --:--:--:-- AND FORTH FIRST, AND THEN I WOULD TYPE IT UP. 617 00:33:33:12 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAD WERE ALREADY DONE, 618 00:33:36:17 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, LIKE THE DINOSAUR THING AND SOME 619 00:33:40:15 --:--:--:-- OF THE OTHER STUFF. 620 00:33:42:00 --:--:--:-- IT WAS ALREADY BEEN WRITTEN, AND I WOULD JUST GIVE IT TO HIM, 621 00:33:44:06 --:--:--:-- AND HE WOULD BE ABLE TO FOLLOW WHAT I HAD WRITTEN. 622 00:33:47:18 --:--:--:-- NOW I DON'T KNOW IF HE DID IT WORD FOR WORD. 623 00:33:49:27 --:--:--:-- AND TO BE HONEST, WE NEVER EVEN TALKED ABOUT THAT. 624 00:33:54:05 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, BECAUSE I WAS LIKE, "I'M THE DEAF STUDENT, YOU'RE 625 00:33:57:00 00:33:58:17 THE INTERPRETER." 626 00:34:02:15 --:--:--:-- NO, LATER THAT WAS. 627 00:34:04:15 --:--:--:-- YESTERDAY, SURE. 628 00:34:07:15 --:--:--:-- NO, YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T REALLY KNOW ABOUT INTERPRETERS 629 00:34:11:10 --:--:--:-- BACK THEN. 630 00:34:13:00 --:--:--:-- BECAUSE I STILL DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY WERE 631 00:34:16:04 --:--:--:-- ALL ABOUT. 632 00:34:17:22 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT AN INTERPRETER WAS 633 00:34:21:15 --:--:--:-- SUPPOSED TO DO. 634 00:34:22:26 --:--:--:-- I HADN'T EXPERIENCED IT BEFORE. 635 00:34:24:20 --:--:--:-- I NEVER GREW UP WITH ONE. 636 00:34:26:17 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, NO ONE EVER TAUGHT ME. 637 00:34:28:25 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS IN A PLAY, THEY WOULD HAVE SOMEONE 638 00:34:31:28 --:--:--:-- SPEAK FOR ME, YOU KNOW, BUT THERE WASN'T ANY SORT 639 00:34:34:25 --:--:--:-- OF PERSONAL CONNECTION OR ANYTHING. 640 00:34:37:05 --:--:--:-- SO, YOU KNOW, IT DIDN'T REALLY BOTHER ME OR ANYTHING. 641 00:34:41:27 --:--:--:-- I JUST REMEMBER HE STARTED TALKING ABOUT MAKING 642 00:34:44:05 --:--:--:-- SOUND EFFECTS, 643 00:34:46:19 --:--:--:-- PLAYING AROUND WITH SOUNDS. 644 00:34:50:03 --:--:--:-- I TOLD HIM, "YEAH, YEAH, YEAH, MAKE THE SOUNDS." 645 00:34:53:15 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, WE'RE BOTH CONTRIBUTING. 646 00:34:54:27 --:--:--:-- IT'S A COLLABORATION. 647 00:34:57:15 --:--:--:-- BUT THEN LATER, I KNOW HE REALLY, REALLY GOT INTO IT, 648 00:35:02:15 00:35:04:16 COMPARED TO WHAT HE'S DOING NOW. 649 00:35:08:15 --:--:--:-- WELL, IT'S LIKE I REMEMBER ONE POEM, UM... 650 00:35:12:04 00:35:15:15 "BASEBALL IN CENTRAL AMERICA." 651 00:35:20:15 --:--:--:-- YEAH, IN THE BOTTOM OF THE 9th INNING OF ROMERO. 652 00:35:24:15 --:--:--:-- I DID THAT TURNAROUND OF ROMERO BEING SHOT, AND 653 00:35:30:03 --:--:--:-- KENNY HAD A BELL, AND HE KEPT HITTING IT 654 00:35:33:20 00:35:35:21 IN A RHYTHMIC STYLE. 655 00:35:39:15 --:--:--:-- AND JUST KEPT HITTING THE BELL, FOLLOWING THIS RHYTHM. 656 00:35:47:00 --:--:--:-- AND HE STARTED TO DO SORT OF THESE DIFFERENT 657 00:35:49:22 --:--:--:-- SOUNDS WITH IT, AND THEN HE STARTED USING 658 00:35:51:20 --:--:--:-- A PAPER BAG, AND HE WAS BREATHING INTO IT TO MAKE THE 659 00:35:55:10 --:--:--:-- SOUND OF LIKE A HEARTBEAT. 660 00:35:57:14 --:--:--:-- AND THEN WHEN IT POPS, EVERYBODY STARTS RUNNING OUT 661 00:36:00:17 --:--:--:-- OF THE CHURCH. 662 00:36:02:00 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THE ARCHBISHOP HAD BEEN SHOT. 663 00:36:05:18 --:--:--:-- HE MADE THE SOUND INTO THE MICROPHONE TO EMPHASIZE THAT. 664 00:36:10:23 --:--:--:-- AND IT WAS LIKE FOR THE HEARING PEOPLE TO NOT ONLY GET 665 00:36:14:03 --:--:--:-- THE LANGUAGE, BUT TO REALLY WATCH THE SIGNS AND HAVE 666 00:36:17:00 --:--:--:-- THE SOUNDS. 667 00:36:18:20 --:--:--:-- IT WAS LESS WORDS AND MORE SOUND CUES. 668 00:36:21:06 --:--:--:-- AND I THINK IT WAS A PRETTY GOOD IDEA, GREAT IDEA. 669 00:36:24:06 00:36:26:17 I REALLY ENJOYED THE WHOLE CONCEPT. 670 00:36:30:00 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, IN THE BEGINNING, YOU KNOW THE FIRST TIME WE 671 00:36:32:27 --:--:--:-- GAVE A PRESENTATION, PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY OR 672 00:36:35:27 --:--:--:-- HOW TO REACT. 673 00:36:37:05 --:--:--:-- THEY WERE JUST KIND OF LIKE, "WHAT'S THAT?" 674 00:36:39:22 --:--:--:-- AND I WAS UP ON STAGE SAYING, "YEAH, ME TOO. 675 00:36:42:21 --:--:--:-- I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M DOING." 676 00:36:44:18 --:--:--:-- SO THEY'RE LOOKING AT ME, I'M LOOKING AT THEM. 677 00:36:46:22 --:--:--:-- WE'RE KIND OF WAVING AT EACH OTHER. 678 00:36:49:00 --:--:--:-- I SAID, "THANK YOU" AND LEAVE. 679 00:36:50:15 --:--:--:-- IT WAS SAME LIKE WITH THE HEARING PEOPLE GOING, 680 00:36:52:14 --:--:--:-- "I DON'T KNOW. THERE IT IS." 681 00:36:54:15 00:36:56:00 HA HA! 682 00:37:02:00 --:--:--:-- AT FIRST, I DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT DEAF CULTURE. 683 00:37:04:16 --:--:--:-- I WAS YOUNG. I WAS STILL LEARNING. 684 00:37:09:24 --:--:--:-- THE HEARING ARTS COMMUNITY WAS VERY STRONG 685 00:37:12:12 --:--:--:-- AND WELL-ESTABLISHED 686 00:37:13:21 --:--:--:-- AND, YOU KNOW, WITH ALL THESE TRADITIONS AND FOLKLORE. 687 00:37:16:29 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND THAT THE DEAF 688 00:37:19:29 --:--:--:-- COMMUNITY HAD THAT. 689 00:37:22:15 --:--:--:-- SO I DIDN'T HAVE A BOND WITH IT YET. 690 00:37:27:13 --:--:--:-- OFTEN, I WOULD JUST SAY THINGS THAT DIDN'T--YOU KNOW WEREN'T 691 00:37:30:28 00:37:34:06 CULTURALLY APPROPRIATE OR DIDN'T MATCH THE CULTURE. 692 00:37:38:00 00:37:40:00 IT'S LIKE, UH... 693 00:37:43:00 --:--:--:-- IT'S LIKE BEFORE. 694 00:37:44:24 --:--:--:-- REMEMBER I WAS TALKING ABOUT THAT PANEL WHERE WE WERE 695 00:37:47:00 --:--:--:-- TALKING ABOUT A TAPE AND I SAID, "THIS WAS SEVERAL YEARS 696 00:37:52:00 --:--:--:-- "AGO WHEN I WAS A YOUNG STUDENT AND I SAID, 'WHO'S GONNA 697 00:37:54:15 --:--:--:-- "'WATCH A PERFORMANCE? 698 00:37:56:14 --:--:--:-- WHO'S GOING TO BE INTERESTED IN MY WORK?'" 699 00:37:59:25 --:--:--:-- I SAID THAT? 700 00:38:01:14 --:--:--:-- I DIDN'T MEAN THAT. 701 00:38:03:13 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, IF I HAD A TIME MACHINE AND CURRENT ME COULD, 702 00:38:07:01 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, TRAVEL BACK IN TIME TO YOUNGER ME, I'D SMACK 703 00:38:10:05 00:38:12:04 MYSELF IN THE HEAD. HA HA! 704 00:38:17:15 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT I WOULD DO AND THEN GET BACK TO 705 00:38:19:27 00:38:23:02 THE FUTURE, SO, ANYWAY... 706 00:38:26:15 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, THERE WERE ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT LEVELS. 707 00:38:28:17 --:--:--:-- AT THAT TIME, WE HAD POETS LIKE CLAYTON VALLI 708 00:38:31:28 --:--:--:-- AND ELLA LENTZ. 709 00:38:33:11 --:--:--:-- THEY WERE GOING LINE BY LINE WITH THINGS. 710 00:38:37:13 --:--:--:-- AND TO BE HONEST, AT THAT FIRST CONFERENCE, THE ASL LIT 711 00:38:41:00 00:38:42:15 CONFERENCE... 712 00:38:46:00 --:--:--:-- LET ME GO BACK. 713 00:38:49:00 --:--:--:-- THERE WAS DR. PANARA. 714 00:38:53:15 00:38:56:00 OH, YES, YES, YES, I REMEMBER. 715 00:38:57:15 00:38:59:03 MIRIAM HAS A TATTOO. 716 00:39:03:15 --:--:--:-- ANYWAY, I HAD TAKEN A CLASS WITH PATRICK GRAYBILL. 717 00:39:08:03 --:--:--:-- AND I CAN'T REMEMBER EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS CALLED. 718 00:39:11:22 --:--:--:-- IT WAS TRANSLATION OR WHATEVER. 719 00:39:15:21 --:--:--:-- I TOOK A LOT OF CLASSES, AND THEY KIND OF RUN 720 00:39:18:14 --:--:--:-- TOGETHER FOR ME, BUT IT WAS ABOUT HAND SHAPES 721 00:39:21:26 --:--:--:-- AND BEING VERY SPECIFIC. 722 00:39:23:15 --:--:--:-- AND PANARA WAS A LOT MORE ABOUT THE WORDS, THE ENGLISH. 723 00:39:28:27 --:--:--:-- LIKE "SPOON RIVER ANTHOLOGY." 724 00:39:31:16 --:--:--:-- HE WOULD ASK, "HOW WOULD WE SIGN THAT?" 725 00:39:33:23 --:--:--:-- AND I WOULD TAKE A LOOK AT THE TEXT AND BE ABLE TO 726 00:39:36:10 --:--:--:-- EXPAND ON IT, 727 00:39:38:19 --:--:--:-- BUT IT WAS STILL ENGLISH INTO AN ASL TRANSLATION. 728 00:39:41:29 --:--:--:-- IT WASN'T STARTING OUT FROM SIGN LANGUAGE. 729 00:39:46:00 --:--:--:-- IT DIDN'T STRAY VERY FAR FROM ENGLISH. 730 00:39:49:00 --:--:--:-- YOU WOULD STILL HAVE THE POINT. 731 00:39:50:15 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, SOMETIMES YOU WOULD GO OFF, AND THEN YOU'D COME BACK 732 00:39:54:00 --:--:--:-- AND OFTEN COME BACK. 733 00:39:55:15 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, I LOVE TO WATCH HOW HE WOULD 734 00:39:58:10 --:--:--:-- SIGN AND, YOU KNOW, HIS POEMS ABOUT "ON HIS DEAFNESS" AND ALL 735 00:40:02:24 --:--:--:-- THOSE TYPES OF THINGS. 736 00:40:04:24 --:--:--:-- I HADN'T MET DEBBIE YET. 737 00:40:06:16 --:--:--:-- DEBBIE WASN'T THERE FOR THE FIRST COUPLE OF YEARS. 738 00:40:10:25 --:--:--:-- BUT I STARTED OUT, YOU KNOW, LIKE MOVIES. 739 00:40:14:13 --:--:--:-- I LOVED MOVIES. 740 00:40:15:27 --:--:--:-- I WAS A LOUSY SIGNER, KIND OF LIKE MALZ 741 00:40:19:03 --:--:--:-- THE FIRST TIME YOU SEE "JABBERWOCKY." 742 00:40:21:15 --:--:--:-- HE'S A LOUSY SIGNER, BUT HE'S VERY CREATIVE. 743 00:40:25:00 --:--:--:-- SO THAT MOVIE TECHNIQUE, THE VISUAL VERNACULAR, 744 00:40:28:29 --:--:--:-- I WANTED TO BE THE CAMERA, HAVE LONG SHOTS, CLOSE-UPS, 745 00:40:34:00 --:--:--:-- USING THE BODY TO BECOME, YOU KNOW, THE POETIC SPACE 746 00:40:39:00 00:40:42:19 AND HAVE THE BODY BECOME THE LINES. 747 00:40:45:00 --:--:--:-- YOU HAD FAR SHOTS, SOMETHING TALL, SOMETHING CLOSE, 748 00:40:49:10 --:--:--:-- ALL THOSE MOVIE CINEMATIC TECHNIQUES, YOU KNOW, WOULD 749 00:40:53:00 --:--:--:-- BE INVOLVED. 750 00:40:55:18 --:--:--:-- AND THEN WHEN I MET DEBBIE, SHE HAD COME BACK, I GUESS, 751 00:40:59:13 --:--:--:-- TO FINISH HER DEGREE. 752 00:41:01:17 --:--:--:-- SO WHEN SHE CAME BACK, I FOUND OUT WE HAD A LOT IN COMMON. 753 00:41:05:15 --:--:--:-- LET ME THINK. WHAT WAS THAT FIRST POEM? 754 00:41:09:00 --:--:--:-- IT WAS BEFORE "RAPE CHOCOLATE." 755 00:41:12:15 --:--:--:-- BEFORE THAT, BEFORE THAT, BEFORE THAT. 756 00:41:16:26 --:--:--:-- I JUST REMEMBER WATCHING HER AND THE WAY SHE WOULD 757 00:41:20:08 --:--:--:-- EXPRESS HERSELF. 758 00:41:22:17 --:--:--:-- AND I THOUGHT, "WOW! 759 00:41:26:00 --:--:--:-- WE'RE VERY SIMILAR." 760 00:41:28:15 --:--:--:-- SHE USES A LOT OF BODY MOVEMENT, AND THE VOCABULARY 761 00:41:34:13 --:--:--:-- WAS THE MOVEMENT COMPARED TO THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO WERE 762 00:41:37:08 --:--:--:-- WORKING WITH JUST HAND SHAPES AND RHYTHMS. 763 00:41:40:01 --:--:--:-- SHE WAS VERY DIFFERENT. 764 00:41:42:14 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, SO IT WAS LIKE THERE WERE TWO DIFFERENT GROUPS, 765 00:41:46:29 --:--:--:-- AND WE BECAME REALLY GOOD FRIENDS RIGHT AWAY. 766 00:41:49:23 --:--:--:-- WE STARTED TO WORK WITH EACH OTHER AND WE STARTED TO GET 767 00:41:53:14 --:--:--:-- INVOLVED, THE THREE OF US ALL WORKING TOGETHER. 768 00:41:56:02 --:--:--:-- WE STARTED LIVING TOGETHER, THE THREE OF US. 769 00:41:58:08 --:--:--:-- SO AT THE HOUSE EVERY NIGHT, WE WERE SHARING AND COLLABORATING 770 00:42:01:00 --:--:--:-- AND CREATING. 771 00:42:02:16 --:--:--:-- IT WAS AWESOME! 772 00:42:04:07 --:--:--:-- AND YOU KNOW, WE WERE DOING A LOT OF THE SAME WORK WITH BODY 773 00:42:07:22 --:--:--:-- LANGUAGE AND DIFFERENT TECHNIQUES AND ALL THIS 774 00:42:10:00 --:--:--:-- KIND OF STUFF. 775 00:42:11:15 --:--:--:-- I THOUGHT, "THAT WAS A GREAT TECHNIQUE AND HOW TO BE ABLE 776 00:42:13:15 --:--:--:-- TO, YOU KNOW, INCORPORATE ALL THESE VISUAL THINGS. 777 00:42:17:15 --:--:--:-- AND THEN I TOOK A DANCE CLASS OR... I THINK THAT WAS BEFORE 778 00:42:23:21 --:--:--:-- THE CONFERENCE, THOUGH. 779 00:42:25:08 00:42:27:12 NO, THAT WAS BEFORE THE CONFERENCE. 780 00:42:31:00 --:--:--:-- JIM HAD GOTTEN SOME MONEY TO ESTABLISH THE VERY FIRST ASL 781 00:42:37:15 --:--:--:-- LIT CONFERENCE. 782 00:42:39:18 --:--:--:-- AND THIS WAS THE FIRST ONE. 783 00:42:41:12 --:--:--:-- PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT THE SECOND ONE WAS THE FIRST. 784 00:42:45:23 --:--:--:-- AND THAT WAS IN...'87? 785 00:42:49:05 --:--:--:-- THE FIRST WITH ELLA, PATRICK, CLAYTON, DEBBIE, AND MYSELF. 786 00:42:55:24 --:--:--:-- THAT WAS THE FIRST ONE. 787 00:42:58:08 --:--:--:-- A LOT OF PEOPLE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT THAT. 788 00:43:00:12 00:43:04:19 I GUESS '98 OR SOMETHING? 789 00:43:08:15 --:--:--:-- BUT PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT WAS THE FIRST. 790 00:43:11:00 --:--:--:-- I SAID, "NO. 791 00:43:12:15 --:--:--:-- OURS IS THE FIRST. THEIRS WAS THE SECOND." 792 00:43:16:01 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, IT'S THE FORGOTTEN CONFERENCE. 793 00:43:22:04 --:--:--:-- BUT LUCKILY, I HAVE EVERYTHING DOCUMENTED. 794 00:43:27:15 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW WHO 795 00:43:30:00 --:--:--:-- THE PEOPLE WERE. 796 00:43:31:20 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW JIM SAID, "YOU KNOW, WE'RE VERY EXCITED. 797 00:43:34:26 --:--:--:-- "WE'RE WELCOMING PEOPLE. 798 00:43:36:18 --:--:--:-- WERE GETTING PEOPLE EXCITED ABOUT IT." 799 00:43:38:21 --:--:--:-- I'LL NEVER FORGET THAT. 800 00:43:40:03 --:--:--:-- I REMEMBER WAS ON A THURSDAY EVENING. 801 00:43:43:17 --:--:--:-- WE WERE GETTING TOGETHER FOR A RECEPTION, 802 00:43:45:17 --:--:--:-- AND WE WERE TALKING AND LOOKING AT EACH OTHER. 803 00:43:47:16 --:--:--:-- AND I DIDN'T KNOW ELLA OR VALLI. 804 00:43:50:24 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, THEY HAD BEEN INVOLVED FOR YEARS AND YEARS. 805 00:43:52:22 --:--:--:-- I HAD NO IDEA. 806 00:43:54:26 --:--:--:-- I JUST THOUGHT THE WHOLE THING HAD JUST STARTED, 807 00:43:58:00 --:--:--:-- BUT YOU KNOW, I WAS IGNORANT. 808 00:43:59:23 --:--:--:-- I WAS YOUNG AND DUMB. 809 00:44:03:03 --:--:--:-- I DIDN'T KNOW WHO ANYBODY WAS. 810 00:44:05:08 --:--:--:-- I REMEMBER PATRICK AND HIS STORYTELLING AND HIS ASL, 811 00:44:08:25 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, HOW ASL WAS FINALLY RECOGNIZED AS 812 00:44:11:15 --:--:--:-- A LANGUAGE. 813 00:44:12:26 --:--:--:-- AND I THOUGHT, "I DON'T SEE THE STRUGGLE." 814 00:44:15:09 --:--:--:-- I DIDN'T KNOW THE HISTORY. 815 00:44:18:15 --:--:--:-- I DIDN'T KNOW WHO I WAS. 816 00:44:20:03 --:--:--:-- I DIDN'T KNOW MY ROOTS. 817 00:44:22:00 --:--:--:-- I WAS JUST A FISH, YOU KNOW, OUT OF WATER. 818 00:44:27:09 00:44:29:15 LATER, IS WHEN I FOUND. 819 00:44:32:15 --:--:--:-- AND THEN A LOT OF HEARING PEOPLE GOT REAL EXCITED, 820 00:44:35:09 --:--:--:-- AND THEY WANTED TO LEARN MUCH MORE ABOUT IT. 821 00:44:38:02 --:--:--:-- AND I THOUGHT, "WELL, THIS IS JUST PART OF MY EVERYDAY LIFE. 822 00:44:40:27 --:--:--:-- THAT'S THE LANGUAGE." 823 00:44:43:15 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, MY EXPERIENCE WAS WATCHING INTERPRETERS 824 00:44:48:03 --:--:--:-- WITH HEARING POETS. 825 00:44:50:13 --:--:--:-- FIRST TIME I SAW THIS WAS IN ROCHESTER. 826 00:44:53:04 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, ROCHESTER WAS A VERY UNIQUE TIME. 827 00:44:56:20 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, IT WAS A VERY SPECIAL 828 00:44:58:05 00:44:59:28 TIME IN HISTORY. 829 00:45:03:27 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, A LOT OF DEAF PEOPLE WHO WERE VERY INTERESTED 830 00:45:07:15 --:--:--:-- AND MOTIVATED IN THIS, AND A LOT OF THE HEARING 831 00:45:10:08 --:--:--:-- INTERPRETERS, TOO. 832 00:45:11:20 --:--:--:-- THEY WANTED TO KNOW HOW COULD WE COMMUNICATE WHAT IT IS THAT 833 00:45:14:29 --:--:--:-- YOU'RE EXPRESSING. 834 00:45:17:00 --:--:--:-- AND THE INTERPRETERS WERE GETTING EXPOSED TO WHAT DEAF 835 00:45:20:13 --:--:--:-- PEOPLE LIKED AND WHAT THEY DIDN'T LIKE AND BEING ABLE TO 836 00:45:23:07 --:--:--:-- MATCH THE CULTURE MORE, NOT JUST DOING, YOU KNOW, 837 00:45:26:06 --:--:--:-- A FORMAL KIND OF SIGN LANGUAGE. 838 00:45:30:00 --:--:--:-- PART OF IT CAME FROM THAT GINSBERG WORKSHOP, 839 00:45:33:01 --:--:--:-- BECAUSE THEY WERE ABLE TO LET GO. 840 00:45:37:27 --:--:--:-- THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT YOU COULDN'T JUST SAY 841 00:45:40:17 --:--:--:-- IN ENGLISH THAT THEY WERE DOING IN SIGN LANGUAGE WITHOUT 842 00:45:43:00 --:--:--:-- LETTING GO. 843 00:45:44:11 --:--:--:-- AND I REMEMBER A LOT OF THE INTERPRETERS LIKE SUSAN CHAPEL, 844 00:45:48:04 --:--:--:-- OR YOU WERE THERE, MIRIAM--THIS IS MIRIAM 845 00:45:51:15 00:45:53:03 SITTING OVER HERE. 846 00:45:57:15 00:45:59:21 OH, BOB BARRETT. 847 00:46:03:15 --:--:--:-- EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE, JIM WOULD DO SOMETHING. 848 00:46:07:21 00:46:09:15 CINDY BARRETT. 849 00:46:12:00 --:--:--:-- THERE WAS A WHOLE GROUP OF PEOPLE, I REMEMBER. 850 00:46:16:00 00:46:18:04 I MEAN IT DEPENDED ON THE POET. 851 00:46:21:12 --:--:--:-- TODD BEERS, A VERY STRONG VISUAL PERSON WAS GREAT. 852 00:46:26:19 --:--:--:-- I ENJOYED HIM SO MUCH. 853 00:46:31:00 --:--:--:-- PAUL DICKSON. 854 00:46:32:11 00:46:36:08 HE WAS LIKE A WILD MAN, AND HE WAS SO CLEAR. 855 00:46:40:24 --:--:--:-- AND YOU WOULDN'T CONNECT WITH THEM EXACTLY, 856 00:46:43:10 --:--:--:-- BUT THE INTERPRETERS WORKED REALLY, REALLY HARD. 857 00:46:47:23 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, COMPARED TO WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW, IT'S JUST-- 858 00:46:50:00 --:--:--:-- IT'S DIFFERENT. 859 00:46:51:10 00:46:54:11 I MEAN, PEOPLE AREN'T AS INVOLVED AS THEY WERE. I MEAN... 860 00:46:56:20 --:--:--:-- BEFORE, WE WERE WORKING AND INVOLVED EVERY SINGLE DAY. 861 00:47:02:00 --:--:--:-- AND IT WAS. IT WAS A GREAT TIME. 862 00:47:04:00 00:47:05:15 WONDERFUL! 863 00:47:10:13 --:--:--:-- OK, SO HERE'S A REALLY GOOD EXAMPLE. 864 00:47:13:15 --:--:--:-- I WAS TALKING WITH DIRKSEN, AND THERE'S THE QUOTE THAT HE 865 00:47:17:28 --:--:--:-- EVEN WROTE ABOUT IT, TOO. 866 00:47:19:17 --:--:--:-- HE WAS TALKING ABOUT SPOKEN LANGUAGE 867 00:47:22:20 --:--:--:-- AND THE ROOT OF LANGUAGE. 868 00:47:25:00 --:--:--:-- "LINGUA" MEANS TONGUE, 869 00:47:27:19 --:--:--:-- AND "LITERATURE" MEANS WRITTEN. 870 00:47:31:15 --:--:--:-- SO "TONGUE WRITING," BUT IT DOESN'T MATCH WITH SIGN LANGUAGE 871 00:47:35:15 --:--:--:-- AND THE PROBLEM IS, HISTORICALLY, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN 872 00:47:38:00 --:--:--:-- FOCUSED ON, YOU KNOW, THE WORDS AND THE SOUNDS. 873 00:47:42:08 --:--:--:-- LIKE IF I SPELL THE WORD "TREE." 874 00:47:44:11 --:--:--:-- I WRITE DOWN THE WORD "TREE," IT DOESN'T MEAN 875 00:47:46:15 --:--:--:-- ANYTHING TO ME. 876 00:47:47:29 --:--:--:-- THERE'S NOTHING THERE. T-R-E-E. 877 00:47:50:19 --:--:--:-- BUT WHEN I SIGN IT, I SEE IT. 878 00:47:53:18 --:--:--:-- IT'S THERE, PHYSICALLY THERE. 879 00:47:58:00 --:--:--:-- I CAN SEE A TREE. 880 00:48:00:06 --:--:--:-- OR LIKE A BOAT. 881 00:48:01:10 --:--:--:-- YOU CAN SEE IT. 882 00:48:02:16 --:--:--:-- OR THE WATER. 883 00:48:03:27 --:--:--:-- YOU CAN SEE IT. IT'S CLEAR. 884 00:48:06:14 --:--:--:-- IF I SPELL OUT "WATER" OR "LAKE" OR WHATEVER AND I WRITE IT 885 00:48:10:27 --:--:--:-- ON A PIECE OF PAPER, I DON'T SEE ANYTHING. 886 00:48:14:06 --:--:--:-- AND THAT'S WHY HISTORICALLY, YOU KNOW, MODERN POETS HAVE BEEN 887 00:48:18:07 --:--:--:-- LOOKING AT THIS GOING, "THIS IS WHAT DEAF 888 00:48:19:25 --:--:--:-- PEOPLE CAN DO?" 889 00:48:21:02 --:--:--:-- THEY BEEN STRUGGLING WITH IMAGERY IN THE LANGUAGE 890 00:48:23:28 --:--:--:-- AND LETTING THE LANGUAGE BECOME THE PICTURE, BUT WE'VE 891 00:48:26:06 --:--:--:-- ALREADY GOT IT. 892 00:48:28:03 --:--:--:-- IT'S BUILT INTO THE LANGUAGE. 893 00:48:30:15 --:--:--:-- AND A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT, "WELL, ASL ISN'T 894 00:48:32:14 --:--:--:-- "REAL LITERATURE 895 00:48:34:15 --:--:--:-- "BECAUSE IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SPEAKING OR 896 00:48:37:28 --:--:--:-- THE WRITTEN WORD." 897 00:48:39:20 --:--:--:-- WE HAVE TO REDEFINE LITERATURE. 898 00:48:42:15 --:--:--:-- WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IT INSTEAD OF BEING ON THE EARS 899 00:48:46:07 --:--:--:-- ON THE EYES. 900 00:48:48:04 --:--:--:-- SO, LITERATURE DOESN'T MEAN JUST WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN 901 00:48:50:22 --:--:--:-- SPEAK IT OR WRITE IT. 902 00:48:53:14 --:--:--:-- IT HAS TO BECOME MUCH MORE GLOBAL PHYSICALLY. 903 00:48:58:01 00:49:00:11 THAT'S SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE. 904 00:49:03:13 00:49:05:13 PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT THAT. 905 00:49:08:00 --:--:--:-- LET ME TAKE SOMETHING-- LET'S SEE... 906 00:49:10:00 --:--:--:-- FROM THE POET NERUDA. 907 00:49:12:16 --:--:--:-- THIS IS A GREAT EXAMPLE. VERY SIMPLE. 908 00:49:16:15 --:--:--:-- I WANT TO DO WITH YOU WHAT THE SPRING DOES TO 909 00:49:20:27 --:--:--:-- THE CHERRY TREE. 910 00:49:23:15 --:--:--:-- OK? VERY SIMPLE LINE, BUT YOU DON'T SEE A PICTURE. 911 00:49:27:25 --:--:--:-- "I WANT." 912 00:49:29:15 --:--:--:-- WHAT'S THAT SIGN? 913 00:49:30:29 --:--:--:-- WHAT'S THAT GOT TO DO-- LIKE A HAND OUT, BEGGING OR... 914 00:49:34:00 --:--:--:-- AND THEN "SPRING." 915 00:49:36:02 --:--:--:-- MAYBE A LITTLE BIT OF A PICTURE. 916 00:49:38:17 --:--:--:-- AND THEN "CHERRY TREE." 917 00:49:40:15 --:--:--:-- BUT IF I CHANGE THAT INTO A PHYSICAL CONCEPTUALIZATION 918 00:49:44:00 00:49:45:20 LIKE THIS... 919 00:50:17:15 --:--:--:-- THE PICTURE IS THERE. PERIOD. 920 00:50:22:00 00:50:23:15 END OF STORY. 921 00:50:26:26 --:--:--:-- I DIDN'T KNOW DOROTHY MILES, BUT WOW. 922 00:50:31:18 --:--:--:-- SHE...I REMEMBER HER EARLY WORK FROM A VIDEOTAPE. 923 00:50:37:14 --:--:--:-- "EYE LANGUAGE" OR-- 924 00:50:39:00 00:50:42:06 NO, "LANGUAGE FOR THE EYE" WAS THE NAME OF THE POEM. 925 00:50:44:15 --:--:--:-- I SAW THAT. IT WAS WONDERFUL. 926 00:50:48:15 --:--:--:-- AND PEOPLE TOLD ME THAT SHE, YOU KNOW, WOULD TALK AND SIGN 927 00:50:52:06 --:--:--:-- AT THE SAME TIME. 928 00:50:54:04 --:--:--:-- BUT THE WAY THAT SHE PLAYED WITH THE MORPHOLOGY, THE HAND 929 00:50:57:15 --:--:--:-- SHAPES, PEOPLE STANDING OR FALLING, THE WAY SHE WAS 930 00:51:01:19 --:--:--:-- LETTING GO A BALL BOUNCING, AND SHE WOULD CHANGE TO 931 00:51:04:27 --:--:--:-- SOMETHING DIFFERENT. 932 00:51:06:15 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, THAT WASN'T THE NORMAL WAY OF DOING THINGS. 933 00:51:09:03 --:--:--:-- IT WAS LIKE SHE WAS JUST TAKING OUT LITTLE BITS 934 00:51:11:11 --:--:--:-- AND PIECES AND STILL FOLLOWING THE TRADITIONAL LINES, 935 00:51:15:22 --:--:--:-- BUT THEY WEREN'T COMPLETELY ENGLISH. 936 00:51:19:03 00:51:21:16 YOU KNOW, IT WAS LINE BY LINE... 937 00:51:23:15 --:--:--:-- THEN YOU'D HAVE A HAND SHAPE OR A FACIAL EXPRESSION 938 00:51:26:25 --:--:--:-- OR A BODY MOVEMENT, 939 00:51:30:00 --:--:--:-- BUT IT WAS STILL FOLLOWING WHAT THE EAR SAID, AND IT WAS 940 00:51:33:28 --:--:--:-- A STRONG INFLUENCE. 941 00:51:35:02 --:--:--:-- BUT THE LINE WAS ALSO BEING CHANGED. 942 00:51:38:10 --:--:--:-- SHE WAS PLAYING WITH THE LANGUAGE, AND IT 943 00:51:40:26 --:--:--:-- WAS FASCINATING. 944 00:51:43:06 --:--:--:-- AND I THINK THAT THAT PROBABLY INFLUENCED VALLI AND ELLA 945 00:51:47:10 --:--:--:-- AND PATRICK, WHERE PEOPLE WOULD LOOK AT THAT 946 00:51:49:13 --:--:--:-- AND SAY, "WOW!" 947 00:51:52:12 --:--:--:-- SHE WAS GREAT AT SIGNING AND SPEAKING AT THE SAME TIME. 948 00:51:57:09 --:--:--:-- BUT IF YOU IGNORE WHAT SHE WAS SAYING, IF YOU LOOK 949 00:51:59:29 --:--:--:-- AT THE HANDS, IT'S REALLY RICH. 950 00:52:02:27 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, AND SHE IS DEFINITELY PLAYING 951 00:52:05:13 --:--:--:-- WITH THE LANGUAGE. 952 00:52:07:03 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, THAT WAS DEFINITELY A MANIPULATION OF THE ART. 953 00:52:10:20 --:--:--:-- IT'S ALMOST LIKE SHE'S WORKING WITH CLAY AND FOLLOWING IT, 954 00:52:14:01 --:--:--:-- BUT SAYING, "SHH, SHH, SHH, I'M GOING TO MOVE THIS AROUND 955 00:52:16:00 --:--:--:-- "AND MAKE IT MINE. 956 00:52:17:15 --:--:--:-- I KNOW THIS IS YOUR WAY. THIS IS MY WAY." 957 00:52:20:15 --:--:--:-- AND YOU KNOW, I REALLY APPLAUD THAT. 958 00:52:23:16 --:--:--:-- IT WAS SO INSPIRING BECAUSE YOU'D SEE LIKE MALZ 959 00:52:27:19 --:--:--:-- AND HIS "JABBERWOCKY." 960 00:52:29:05 --:--:--:-- HE TELLS THE STORY...WAY BACK IN THE EARLY DAYS. 961 00:52:34:27 --:--:--:-- AND THEN YOU'D SEE WITH JOE AT NTD, YOU KNOW, WHERE HE'S 962 00:52:39:15 --:--:--:-- TAKING OUT THE SWORD AND THEY'RE FIGHTING THE MONSTER, 963 00:52:43:11 --:--:--:-- AND YOU GO, "WOW!" 964 00:52:45:15 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW BEFORE THAT, IT WAS MUCH MORE JUST SIGNING. 965 00:52:49:00 --:--:--:-- WHAT A VERY DIFFERENT APPROACH. 966 00:52:52:02 --:--:--:-- SO IT WAS LIKE ONE BUILT ON THE OTHER. 967 00:52:55:02 --:--:--:-- AND YOU KNOW, TO THIS DAY, "JABBERWOCKY" STILL GOES 968 00:52:58:08 --:--:--:-- IN TWO DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS. 969 00:53:00:05 --:--:--:-- ONE IS MORE THE FORMAL SIGN LANGUAGE, YOU KNOW, 970 00:53:03:00 --:--:--:-- THE WRITTEN LANGUAGE, AND THE OTHER IS WHERE THEY'RE 971 00:53:06:00 --:--:--:-- LETTING GO. 972 00:53:08:00 --:--:--:-- IT'S JUST NOT DERIVED FROM THE WRITTEN WORD, BUT IT'S 973 00:53:13:05 --:--:--:-- LIKE THE STORY OF WHAT'S GOING ON NEXT. 974 00:53:16:24 --:--:--:-- IN "MY THIRD EYE" THAT THEY DID IT NTD, 975 00:53:19:26 --:--:--:-- I THINK THAT'S THE FIRST TIME I SAW A GROUP POEM. 976 00:53:24:06 --:--:--:-- THAT, I THINK, WAS INCREDIBLE. 977 00:53:27:21 --:--:--:-- PLUS, THEY'RE ALL COMING UP WITH ALL SORT OF CREATIVE 978 00:53:31:01 --:--:--:-- THINGS THEMSELVES, BUILDING A SCRIPT TOGETHER, NOT WORKING 979 00:53:35:01 --:--:--:-- FROM A WRITTEN SCRIPT. 980 00:53:37:00 --:--:--:-- BUT IT WAS LIKE A TURN OF CULTURE, VERY INTERESTING. 981 00:53:43:02 --:--:--:-- AND THAT, YOU KNOW, PLAYING WITH THE LANGUAGE, WAS "WOW!" 982 00:53:47:21 --:--:--:-- AND YOU STILL SEE A LOT OF THE "WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN NEXT? 983 00:53:51:11 --:--:--:-- WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN NEXT? WHERE'S IT GO?" 984 00:53:53:10 --:--:--:-- AND THEN YOU SEE, THERE'S DOT. 985 00:53:58:17 --:--:--:-- THEY STILL HAVE THE OLD SCHOOL, AND THEY'RE KIND 986 00:54:02:22 00:54:05:12 OF BRINGING IT BACK TOGETHER. 987 00:54:09:15 --:--:--:-- SO NOW, EVEN THOUGH THEY HAD DIVERGED 988 00:54:12:26 --:--:--:-- FOR A LITTLE WHILE, THEY'RE NOW STARTING TO CONVERGE. 989 00:54:16:00 00:54:19:15 AND WHERE THAT LEADS US IN THE FUTURE, WHO KNOWS. 990 00:54:30:27 --:--:--:-- YOU REALLY SHOULD CONTACT CHRIS KRANTZ. 991 00:54:33:21 --:--:--:-- HE RUNS A DEAF PROGRAM IN VIRGINIA AND GIVES LECTURES 992 00:54:36:15 --:--:--:-- ABOUT HOW PRINTED LITERATURE INFLUENCED HEARING PEOPLE 993 00:54:40:03 --:--:--:-- AND HOW DOCUMENTING LITERATURE IN VIDEOTAPES AND MOVIES HAS 994 00:54:43:22 --:--:--:-- INFLUENCED DEAF PEOPLE. 995 00:54:46:00 --:--:--:-- ONCE PRINTING PRESSES WERE ESTABLISHED, THE PRINTED WORD 996 00:54:48:25 --:--:--:-- BECAME MORE AVAILABLE TO THE COMMON PEOPLE. 997 00:54:52:00 --:--:--:-- BUT IN TERMS OF MOVIES AND VIDEOS AND EVERYTHING, 998 00:54:54:24 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, PEOPLE MAKING THESE VIDEOS, PEOPLE HAVE TO 999 00:54:57:19 --:--:--:-- PRACTICE AND PRACTICE AND PRACTICE TO MAKE THEM, 1000 00:54:59:15 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, CLEAR. 1001 00:55:00:28 --:--:--:-- AND THAT KINDA MADE SIGNS FROZEN AND MORE FORMULAIC. 1002 00:55:04:13 --:--:--:-- BUT NOW WITH VLOGS AND THE ABILITY TO EVERYBODY HAVING 1003 00:55:07:09 --:--:--:-- CAMERAS OR DOING THINGS ON THEIR COMPUTERS IS CHANGED, 1004 00:55:10:15 --:--:--:-- LANGUAGE CHANGED. 1005 00:55:12:10 --:--:--:-- AND THAT'S GONNA INFLUENCE THINGS. 1006 00:55:14:00 --:--:--:-- NOW MOVIES HAVE THIS PERVASIVE INFLUENCE. 1007 00:55:17:10 --:--:--:-- THEY ALWAYS WILL, BUT THERE IS, YOU KNOW, SORT OF INFORMALLY 1008 00:55:21:03 --:--:--:-- CREEPING INTO THE SIGNS. 1009 00:55:22:22 --:--:--:-- SO MY PREDICTION IS, YEAH, IT'S GONNA CONTINUE. 1010 00:55:25:26 --:--:--:-- YEAH, DEFINITELY PAGERS, TEXTING, ALL OF THOSE THINGS 1011 00:55:29:15 --:--:--:-- HAVE AN INFLUENCE. 1012 00:55:30:25 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, THE LANGUAGE IS GONNA BECOME MORE STANDARDIZED 1013 00:55:34:05 --:--:--:-- BECAUSE VIDEOS ARE CHEAP AND CAMERAS ARE CHEAP AND DVDS 1014 00:55:36:27 --:--:--:-- ARE CHEAP. 1015 00:55:38:13 --:--:--:-- PLUS, THERE'S A LOT OF CONTACT LANGUAGE. 1016 00:55:40:23 --:--:--:-- THERE'S THE INTERNET, THERE'S THE DEAF COMMUNITY BECOMING 1017 00:55:43:05 --:--:--:-- MORE SOPHISTICATED IN THEIR APPRECIATION OF LITERATURE 1018 00:55:46:00 --:--:--:-- IN ENGLISH. 1019 00:55:47:10 --:--:--:-- THEY'RE EXPECTING MORE. 1020 00:55:48:18 --:--:--:-- THEY'RE DEMANDING MORE COMPLEXITY. 1021 00:55:50:21 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, BEFORE THINGS WERE JUST SIMPLE, 1022 00:55:52:15 --:--:--:-- AND THAT WAS FINE. 1023 00:55:54:00 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, SOMEONE WOULD SAY, "WATCH ME," 1024 00:55:55:15 --:--:--:-- AND THEY SHOWED THIS PERSON WALKING AND FALLING OR 1025 00:55:58:27 --:--:--:-- BECOMING A FROG AND SWIMMING, AND EVERYONE WOULD SAY, 1026 00:56:01:10 --:--:--:-- "OH, MY GOD! WASN'T THAT AMAZING? 1027 00:56:03:15 --:--:--:-- "DID YOU SEE WHAT HE DID WITH THIS SIGN? 1028 00:56:05:00 --:--:--:-- IT WAS SO CREATIVE." 1029 00:56:06:15 --:--:--:-- NOW IT'S LIKE, "YEAH, SO?" 1030 00:56:08:11 --:--:--:-- IT'S GOTTA BECOME MORE COMPLEX. 1031 00:56:11:11 --:--:--:-- I THINK WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE LANGUAGE ITSELF, YOU KNOW, 1032 00:56:15:16 --:--:--:-- AMERICANS USE A LOT MORE FINGERSPELLING THAN OVER 1033 00:56:17:15 --:--:--:-- IN EUROPE. 1034 00:56:19:00 --:--:--:-- THEY'RE MUCH MORE CLASSIFIED-ORIENTED. 1035 00:56:21:20 --:--:--:-- THEY USE CLASSIFIERS A LOT MORE THERE. 1036 00:56:24:03 --:--:--:-- THEY'RE VERY EXPERIENCED WITH IT, SO THAT'S WHAT THEY DO. 1037 00:56:27:18 --:--:--:-- THEY TEND TO PLAY MORE WITH CLASSIFIERS BECAUSE THAT'S 1038 00:56:30:12 --:--:--:-- MORE IN THEIR VERNACULAR. 1039 00:56:32:18 --:--:--:-- BUT HERE WITH PEOPLE LIKE VALLI LOOKING AT VERB POEMS 1040 00:56:36:08 --:--:--:-- AND USING CLASSIFIERS--I REMEMBER WHEN I INTERVIEWED HIM. 1041 00:56:39:17 --:--:--:-- I GUESS IT WAS IN '95, I SAT WITH HIM, AND HE WAS 1042 00:56:43:24 --:--:--:-- TALKING ABOUT HOW THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENT IMAGES 1043 00:56:46:00 --:--:--:-- IN PICTURES AND POETRY. 1044 00:56:48:00 --:--:--:-- AND HE SAID, "YOU KNOW, YOU REALLY HAVE TO BE CAREFUL 1045 00:56:51:01 --:--:--:-- "ABOUT SAYING THERE ARE PICTURES IN POETRY. 1046 00:56:53:15 00:56:55:00 IT'S CLASSIFIERS." 1047 00:56:59:00 --:--:--:-- AND I SAID, "CLASSIFIERS? 1048 00:57:02:15 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, PICTURES IN THE SIGN LANGUAGE." 1049 00:57:05:01 --:--:--:-- AND HE SAID, "NO. 1050 00:57:06:15 --:--:--:-- "WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS A CLASSIFIER. 1051 00:57:10:15 --:--:--:-- THAT'S NOT A PICTURE." 1052 00:57:12:00 --:--:--:-- AND HE SHOWED ME WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT TREES OR 1053 00:57:15:17 --:--:--:-- THE SIGN FOR TREES. 1054 00:57:17:16 --:--:--:-- THIS IS ACTUALLY PART OF A CLASSIFIER. 1055 00:57:20:00 --:--:--:-- THE SIGN OF WALKING WITH BOTH HANDS. 1056 00:57:23:14 --:--:--:-- A BEE SHAPE IS WALKING, AND THAT'S A CLASSIFIER, ALSO. 1057 00:57:28:03 --:--:--:-- HE SAID, "THAT'S A BIG PART 1058 00:57:29:27 --:--:--:-- OF THE LANGUAGE, AND THOSE ACT AS VERBS." 1059 00:57:33:24 --:--:--:-- I HADN'T EVEN REALIZED THE LINGUISTICS OF THAT. 1060 00:57:36:24 --:--:--:-- I THOUGHT IT WAS NOT REALLY RELATED TO THE LANGUAGE. 1061 00:57:39:16 --:--:--:-- I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST SOMETHING IN ME THAT I WAS 1062 00:57:41:19 --:--:--:-- JUST USING. 1063 00:57:43:14 --:--:--:-- BUT THEN WHEN I WATCH THIS VIDEO, I REALIZE THAT THE TIME 1064 00:57:46:15 --:--:--:-- THAT YOU MADE YOUR DVD THAT THE SAMPLER--IT'S SO FUNNY TO 1065 00:57:51:22 --:--:--:-- WATCH MYSELF FROM A LONG TIME AGO. 1066 00:57:53:25 --:--:--:-- I WAS SO CLUELESS ABOUT SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS. 1067 00:57:57:16 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, I'VE EVOLVED SO MUCH, AND I'VE GROWN IN MY 1068 00:58:00:08 --:--:--:-- UNDERSTANDING OVER THE YEARS. 1069 00:58:01:27 --:--:--:-- IT'S FASCINATING! 1070 00:58:03:16 --:--:--:-- YEAH, IT'S AN EVOLUTION. 1071 00:58:05:14 00:58:07:15 YEAH, IT'S LIKE GOING BACKWARDS. 1072 00:58:09:23 00:58:13:15 I OFTEN...HOW DO I EXPLAIN THIS? 1073 00:58:16:00 --:--:--:-- ELLA'S JUST AMAZING IN HER ABILITY TO PRODUCE THIS 1074 00:58:20:08 --:--:--:-- CLEAR IMAGERY. 1075 00:58:22:14 --:--:--:-- BACK AT THE TIME WHEN I WAS YOUNGER, I DIDN'T HAVE THAT 1076 00:58:24:19 --:--:--:-- SENSE OF DEAFHOOD YET. 1077 00:58:27:19 --:--:--:-- HER THEMES TEND TO BE REALLY DEAF, AND A LOT OF THAT I HAD 1078 00:58:31:15 --:--:--:-- NO EXPERIENCE WITH, 1079 00:58:33:21 00:58:38:00 YOU KNOW, GROWING UP, SO IT DIDN'T RESONATE WITH ME. 1080 00:58:45:00 --:--:--:-- SO I HAD NO CONNECTION WITH THAT EXPERIENCE. 1081 00:58:48:03 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, I WAS WORKING WITH MY HANDS AND LEARNING 1082 00:58:50:11 --:--:--:-- THE LANGUAGE, BUT AS I BECAME OLDER, I APPRECIATE HER WORK 1083 00:58:53:25 --:--:--:-- EVEN MORE THAN I DID BEFORE. 1084 00:58:55:28 --:--:--:-- I WATCH IT NOW AND I GO, "I ENJOY IT MUCH MORE THAN 1085 00:58:59:08 --:--:--:-- BEFORE, A LOT MORE THAN BACK WHEN I FIRST SAW IT." 1086 00:59:02:15 --:--:--:-- I THOUGHT IT WAS GOOD BACK THEN, BUT NOW I'M TOTALLY 1087 00:59:05:12 --:--:--:-- TAKEN BY IT AND I GET IT. 1088 00:59:07:15 --:--:--:-- BEFORE, I SORT OF TOOK IT ALL IN, BUT I NEEDED TO 1089 00:59:11:01 --:--:--:-- EXPERIENCE LIFE MORE. 1090 00:59:12:27 --:--:--:-- I NEEDED TO GET MORE FROM THE LITTLE "d" TO THE BIG "D" 1091 00:59:16:08 --:--:--:-- FOR HER WORK TO REALLY MAKE SENSE TO ME. 1092 00:59:19:15 --:--:--:-- THE WAY SHE USES HAND SHAPE, RHYTHMIC MOVEMENT, I MEAN 1093 00:59:22:20 --:--:--:-- IT'S REALLY CAREFULLY CONSTRUCTED. 1094 00:59:24:29 --:--:--:-- ALL THE TECHNIQUES SHE USES TO INCORPORATE IN HER WORK-- 1095 00:59:28:02 --:--:--:-- THE PICTURE, EVERYTHING-- 1096 00:59:29:15 --:--:--:-- IT'S SO RICH. 1097 00:59:31:15 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, THE WAY SHE USES CIRCLES AND HOW THINGS ARE ALL 1098 00:59:34:16 --:--:--:-- INTERCONNECTED AND HOW THEY MOVE AND FLOW IN THIS 1099 00:59:37:09 --:--:--:-- CIRCULAR MOTION. 1100 00:59:38:28 --:--:--:-- EVEN WHEN SHE SHOWS A FOREST OR TREES, THINGS ARE MOVING. 1101 00:59:42:24 --:--:--:-- AND THEN SHE STOPS TO MAKE SURE THE POINT IS THERE, 1102 00:59:45:15 --:--:--:-- AS IF THE CAMERA FRAME IS FREEZING. 1103 00:59:48:11 --:--:--:-- IT GIVES PEOPLE A MOMENT TO SOAK IT IN, AND THEN SHE GOES 1104 00:59:51:15 --:--:--:-- ON TO THE NEXT IMAGE. 1105 00:59:52:27 00:59:54:08 IT'S AMAZING! 1106 00:59:58:15 --:--:--:-- REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT THE POLITICAL ELEMENT OF POETRY. 1107 01:00:01:24 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT DEAF RIGHTS AND DEAF EQUITY 1108 01:00:05:04 --:--:--:-- AND PARITY ARE ALL WITHIN THE LANGUAGE. 1109 01:00:07:13 --:--:--:-- I HADN'T REALLY GOTTEN INTO THE POLITICAL ASPECT OF THINGS 1110 01:00:11:00 --:--:--:-- BECAUSE I WASN'T PART OF THAT SORT OF RADICAL GROUP OR 1111 01:00:14:12 --:--:--:-- FEELING THAT I NEEDED TO BE DISSIDENT, 1112 01:00:17:09 --:--:--:-- BUT WHEN YOU GET INTO THE POETRY, 1113 01:00:19:21 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, SOME OF IT IS REALLY VERY, VERY CLEAR. 1114 01:00:24:10 --:--:--:-- THERE ARE A LOT OF VERY CLEAR SYMBOLS THAT ELLA USES, 1115 01:00:27:19 --:--:--:-- FOR EXAMPLE, 1116 01:00:29:02 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, BUT A LOT ARE METAPHORIC AND YOU HAVE TO 1117 01:00:31:11 --:--:--:-- LOOK AT THE SYMBOLS BEHIND WHAT THE SYMBOLS MEAN. 1118 01:00:35:00 --:--:--:-- LIKE ELLA USING A TREE FOR A DEAF CHILD AND SEEING IT GROW. 1119 01:00:39:28 --:--:--:-- IN HER OTHER POEM "THE DOOR" AND "TO A HEARING MOTHER," I DIDN'T 1120 01:00:45:28 --:--:--:-- GET THEM AT ALL, AND NOW I THINK THEY'RE 1121 01:00:47:27 --:--:--:-- INCREDIBLY PROFOUND. 1122 01:00:50:06 --:--:--:-- BECAUSE I HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH THAT, AND I'VE SEEN IT NOW. 1123 01:00:53:17 01:00:56:00 I APPRECIATE THEM SO MUCH. 1124 01:00:57:15 --:--:--:-- ELLA AND VALLI BOTH WERE VERY, VERY STRONG, YOU KNOW, 1125 01:01:03:07 --:--:--:-- WHICH IS GREAT. 1126 01:01:04:15 --:--:--:-- WE NEED THAT. 1127 01:01:05:28 01:01:08:13 BACK THEN, I WAS SORT OF LIKE, "I DON'T KNOW." 1128 01:01:13:00 --:--:--:-- I DID NOT THINK THOSE ISSUES WERE SO IMPORTANT, AND NOW I 1129 01:01:17:00 --:--:--:-- FEEL THAT THEY ARE INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT AND PRECIOUS TO US. 1130 01:01:21:29 --:--:--:-- AND YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO HAVE ISSUES BECAUSE THAT'S REALITY. 1131 01:01:27:00 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, YOU CAN'T SHOW IT EVERY MOMENT, BUT WHAT'S REALLY 1132 01:01:30:05 --:--:--:-- IMPORTANT TO ME IS THAT I THINK IT ASSUMES ALL THESE 1133 01:01:33:21 --:--:--:-- SORTS OF POLITICAL IDEATIONS ARE THE LANGUAGES, 1134 01:01:37:06 --:--:--:-- THE LANGUAGE THAT WE USE. 1135 01:01:39:23 --:--:--:-- THE IDEAS AND DEAF IDENTITY ISSUES ARE ALL WITHIN 1136 01:01:42:21 --:--:--:-- THE LANGUAGE. 1137 01:01:44:12 --:--:--:-- I THINK, COMPARED TO LIKE 20 YEARS AGO, THAT I'M MORE INTO 1138 01:01:49:10 --:--:--:-- THE TRANSFORMATION, HAND SHAPE, MOVEMENT, PLAYING 1139 01:01:53:05 01:01:55:02 WITH THE LANGUAGE ITSELF. 1140 01:01:57:15 --:--:--:-- WRITING HAS ALL OF THESE CONSTRUCTS, AND I FEEL THAT 1141 01:02:01:03 01:02:05:15 ASL HAS AN EXACT EQUALITY TO ENGLISH WRITING. 1142 01:02:10:23 01:02:13:15 SO I FEEL THINGS HAVE CHANGED. 1143 01:02:15:00 --:--:--:-- YEAH. THAT IS RIGHT. 1144 01:02:17:20 --:--:--:-- THERE IS A LOSS OF CULTURE. 1145 01:02:19:21 --:--:--:-- USED TO HAVE THAT STRONG DEAF IDENTITY. 1146 01:02:22:28 --:--:--:-- IT HASN'T BEEN THERE. 1147 01:02:24:15 01:02:27:05 IT'S GOTTA BE SOMEWHERE. DO YOU HAVE IT? 1148 01:02:29:15 --:--:--:-- OH, YEAH, NO. 1149 01:02:31:05 --:--:--:-- I REMEMBER CLEARLY HOW I CAME UP WITH THAT. 1150 01:02:33:20 --:--:--:-- BECAUSE IT WAS VERY SIMPLE. 1151 01:02:35:27 --:--:--:-- I REMEMBER I WAS TALKING TO A FRIEND AND SOMEBODY SAID, 1152 01:02:38:19 --:--:--:-- "OH, POETRY. 1153 01:02:40:24 --:--:--:-- "WELL, THERE'S GESTURE AND THEN THERE'S SIGNED ENGLISH, AND THEN 1154 01:02:43:28 --:--:--:-- THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF LANGUAGES." 1155 01:02:45:27 --:--:--:-- AND I'M LIKE, "YEAH, BUT YOU COULD TRY ASL POETRY." 1156 01:02:50:08 --:--:--:-- AND THEY SAID, "NO, I CAN'T DO POETRY WITH THAT, WITH ASL." 1157 01:02:53:22 --:--:--:-- AND I WAS LIKE, "NO." 1158 01:02:55:14 --:--:--:-- I WANTED TO SHOW SOMETHING DIFFERENT. 1159 01:02:58:05 --:--:--:-- I WANTED TO SHOW A DIFFERENT WAY OF BEING AND A DIFFERENT 1160 01:03:01:04 --:--:--:-- WAY OF SHOWING LANGUAGE. 1161 01:03:02:23 --:--:--:-- AND I THOUGHT, "OH, GOING FROM THE PAST TO THE FUTURE." 1162 01:03:06:16 --:--:--:-- THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO DO, 1163 01:03:09:03 --:--:--:-- GOING FROM THE PAST TO THE FUTURE. SO ONE NIGHT, I STARTED 1164 01:03:11:28 --:--:--:-- TYPING SOMETHING UP ON THIS OLD TYPEWRITER, AND I WAS ABLE 1165 01:03:16:01 --:--:--:-- TO COME UP WITH THIS ONE THING. 1166 01:03:17:21 --:--:--:-- AND ONE NIGHT, OVERNIGHT, AND IT WASN'T TAKING WEEKS 1167 01:03:20:15 --:--:--:-- OR ANYTHING. 1168 01:03:22:01 --:--:--:-- THAT WAS IT. ONE NIGHT OF TOTAL CREATIVITY. 1169 01:03:25:08 --:--:--:-- OH, NO, WAIT. I HAVE TO GO BACK FOR A MINUTE. 1170 01:03:27:25 --:--:--:-- NOW, WAIT A MINUTE. THERE WAS THIS MOVIE, 1171 01:03:29:05 --:--:--:-- A JAPANESE MOVIE. 1172 01:03:31:00 --:--:--:-- I REMEMBER THE TITLE. OH, WHAT WAS THAT? 1173 01:03:35:00 --:--:--:-- IT WAS THE MOVIE, 1174 01:03:36:24 --:--:--:-- AND IT HAD A STORY IN A STORY. UM... 1175 01:03:41:01 --:--:--:-- NO, IT WASN'T "RASHOMON." 1176 01:03:43:18 --:--:--:-- OK, BUT THE WAY IT OPENED, AND THIS WAS A TRUE STORY. 1177 01:03:47:15 --:--:--:-- THERE WAS A JAPANESE POET WHO DECIDED TO TAKE OVER THE WHOLE 1178 01:03:50:26 --:--:--:-- COUNTRY, AND HE HAD HIS OWN PRIVATE MILITIA. 1179 01:03:53:24 --:--:--:-- IT WAS IN 1960 OR SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE. 1180 01:03:57:08 --:--:--:-- I DON'T MEMBER THE POET'S NAME. 1181 01:03:58:28 --:--:--:-- AMISHA--MISHIMA? 1182 01:04:02:00 --:--:--:-- MISHIMA? MISHAMA? 1183 01:04:05:03 --:--:--:-- AND OH, MY GOD. IT WAS JUST INCREDIBLE. 1184 01:04:08:15 --:--:--:-- SO THE MOVIE OPENS, AND IT'S ALL IN BLACK AND WHITE. 1185 01:04:11:14 --:--:--:-- THERE'S THIS TOP-SECRET MEETING WITH ALL OF THESE 1186 01:04:13:27 --:--:--:-- SUITS, AND THEY'RE MAKING ALL THESE DECISIONS. 1187 01:04:16:24 --:--:--:-- AND THEN, THERE'S THIS OTHER STORY IN THE MOVIE, AND ALL 1188 01:04:20:02 --:--:--:-- OF A SUDDEN IT'S IN COLOR. 1189 01:04:21:22 --:--:--:-- IT HAS THE NAME OF THE STORY COME UP, 1190 01:04:23:15 --:--:--:-- AND THINGS START TO HAPPEN WITHIN THIS VERY SWEET STORY. 1191 01:04:26:15 --:--:--:-- AND THEN IT GOES BACK TO BLACK AND WHITE WITH THESE 1192 01:04:28:15 --:--:--:-- MILITIA GUYS TAKING OVER THE COUNTRY. 1193 01:04:30:15 --:--:--:-- AND THEN IT GOES BACK TO THE OTHER SWEET SORT OF STORY 1194 01:04:33:15 --:--:--:-- IN COLOR, AND IT GOES BACK AND FORTH, AND SOMEBODY'S TAKING 1195 01:04:36:15 --:--:--:-- OVER, AND THEY REALIZE THEY'RE GONNA FAIL. 1196 01:04:38:15 --:--:--:-- HE COMMITS HARAKIRI. 1197 01:04:40:12 --:--:--:-- SO THERE'S THE STORY IN THE STORY, AND I'VE HELD ONTO THAT 1198 01:04:43:12 --:--:--:-- WHEN MY FRIEND WAS SAYING, "ASL CAN'T REALLY DO POETRY." 1199 01:04:46:00 --:--:--:-- AND I THOUGHT, "I'M GONNA USE THAT TECHNIQUE OF GOING 1200 01:04:48:00 --:--:--:-- BACK AND FORTH, STORY TO STORY." 1201 01:04:50:15 --:--:--:-- START WITH THIS BOY SORT OF BLOWING A HORN 1202 01:04:52:15 --:--:--:-- AS A CALL TO ARMS. 1203 01:04:54:00 --:--:--:-- AND THE STORY WILL HAPPEN AND GO ALONG FOR A WHILE. 1204 01:04:56:15 --:--:--:-- AND IN THE FIRST PART WHERE THESE PEOPLE DIGGING, AND THEY 1205 01:04:59:09 --:--:--:-- FOUND THIS BOX AND THEY LOOK UP TO THE BOY WHO'S CALLING 1206 01:05:02:20 --:--:--:-- THESE SPIRITS TO COME OUT AND TO TELL THEIR PART 1207 01:05:05:00 --:--:--:-- OF THE STORIES. 1208 01:05:06:22 --:--:--:-- SO I USED THAT TECHNIQUE OF GOING BACK AND FORTH, 1209 01:05:09:00 --:--:--:-- PERSON-TO-PERSON, PUT IT ALL TOGETHER IN ONE NIGHT. 1210 01:05:11:15 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, IT JUST ALL CAME TOGETHER. 1211 01:05:14:25 --:--:--:-- YEAH, SAME HERE. 1212 01:05:16:16 --:--:--:-- I DON'T KNOW WHY I USED A HORN. 1213 01:05:18:03 --:--:--:-- I GUESS IT'S BECAUSE IT'S A BIG CALL, YOU KNOW. 1214 01:05:21:03 --:--:--:-- LIKE IT'S A STRONG ARCHETYPE. 1215 01:05:23:02 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, IT'S A UNIVERSAL. 1216 01:05:25:16 --:--:--:-- ANYBODY WITH A HORN WHO'S DOING IT MEANS IT MUST BE 1217 01:05:28:06 --:--:--:-- AN EMERGENCY, YOU KNOW. 1218 01:05:29:27 --:--:--:-- PEOPLE HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION AND LISTEN. 1219 01:05:32:21 --:--:--:-- WHEREAS DEAF PEOPLE MIGHT'VE IGNORED IT 1220 01:05:34:15 --:--:--:-- IF THEY COULDN'T HEAR IT, I GUESS. 1221 01:05:36:02 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE USING A PIANO IN THE SCHOOL 1222 01:05:38:11 --:--:--:-- FOR THE DEAF OR SOMETHING. 1223 01:05:40:05 --:--:--:-- I FAILED. YOU'RE RIGHT. 1224 01:05:42:05 --:--:--:-- I USED THE WRONG SYMBOL IN MY POEM. 1225 01:05:43:25 --:--:--:-- I NEVER REALIZED IT ALL THESE YEARS. 1226 01:05:46:25 --:--:--:-- HA HA! WELL, SEE? 1227 01:05:49:00 --:--:--:-- I WAS YOUNG. THAT'S THE PROOF RIGHT THERE. 1228 01:05:51:26 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, I GUESS I'M NOT ANY SMARTER THAN I AM NOW. 1229 01:05:56:15 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW. 1230 01:05:58:02 --:--:--:-- MAYBE THE BOY STANDS UP ON A HILL AND HE TAKES A FLASHING 1231 01:06:00:25 --:--:--:-- LIGHT OR SOMETHING INSTEAD. 1232 01:06:03:04 --:--:--:-- EVERYBODY...OR DO YOU KNOW A TEXT PAGER OR SOMETHING, 1233 01:06:06:12 --:--:--:-- SOME SORT OF FLASHING LIGHT. 1234 01:06:08:12 --:--:--:-- SMOKE SIGNALS, YOU KNOW UPON A HILL. 1235 01:06:11:23 01:06:14:13 OH, THAT'S A GOOD ONE. I SHOULD USE THAT. 1236 01:06:17:26 --:--:--:-- OH, YEAH. GOOD QUESTION. WELL, I TOOK A CLASS WITH HIM. 1237 01:06:21:04 --:--:--:-- AND HE SHOWED ME THIS HAIKU POEM. 1238 01:06:24:19 --:--:--:-- YEAH, IT WAS A WHOLE STORY THAT I LOOKED AT. 1239 01:06:27:12 --:--:--:-- IT WAS ABOUT A FROG, YOU KNOW, FROM JAPAN. 1240 01:06:31:02 --:--:--:-- SO WE WORKED ON THIS BECOMING THE FROG AND HAVING IT JUMP 1241 01:06:34:07 --:--:--:-- AND LAND IN THE WATER. 1242 01:06:35:24 --:--:--:-- I REMEMBER WE TALKED ABOUT IT BEING A SMALL PUDDLE INSTEAD 1243 01:06:38:17 --:--:--:-- OF A BIG LAKE OR WHATEVER. 1244 01:06:40:00 --:--:--:-- THAT'S WHAT I REMEMBER. 1245 01:06:41:10 --:--:--:-- HE SHOWED THIS FROG JUMPING INTO SOMETHING SMALLER. 1246 01:06:44:04 --:--:--:-- AND WHEN I WATCHED HIS WORK, I WAS SO AMAZED BY IT. 1247 01:06:47:19 --:--:--:-- THEN AT THE CONFERENCE, I COULD SEE A WHOLE LOT OF HIS WORK. 1248 01:06:50:12 --:--:--:-- I'D ONLY SEEN A FEW THINGS BEFORE, AND I WAS REALLY TAKEN 1249 01:06:53:05 --:--:--:-- WITH THE "SPACE SHUTTLE" POEM. 1250 01:06:55:02 --:--:--:-- AND WHEN THE SPACE SHUTTLE BLEW UP, THAT HIS HEART ACTUALLY 1251 01:06:58:02 --:--:--:-- HAD A REACTION. 1252 01:06:59:17 --:--:--:-- THEN WHEN THE SPACE SHUTTLE FELL, THE TEAR FELL DOWN HIS FACE 1253 01:07:02:15 --:--:--:-- AT THE SAME TIME. 1254 01:07:04:07 --:--:--:-- VALLI INCORPORATES SOME OF THOSE TECHNIQUES, TOO, LIKE 1255 01:07:06:29 --:--:--:-- IN THE OLD "SUMMER HOUSE" POEM. 1256 01:07:09:03 --:--:--:-- THE FIRE GOES UP, THE HOUSE COMES DOWN, AND THEN EMOTIONS 1257 01:07:12:15 --:--:--:-- ARE UP AND DOWN. 1258 01:07:14:04 --:--:--:-- OTHER POEMS HE HAS, HE'S LIKE VERY CIRCULAR MOVEMENTS WHERE 1259 01:07:17:24 --:--:--:-- THINGS GO UP, THINGS GO DOWN. 1260 01:07:19:13 --:--:--:-- HE HAS ALL KINDS OF MOVEMENTS UP AND DOWN THAT CORRESPOND TO 1261 01:07:22:21 --:--:--:-- LINGUISTIC IDEAS. 1262 01:07:25:29 --:--:--:-- AND PATRICK, HE HAS THE SORT OF BROAD TAKE ON THINGS. 1263 01:07:30:11 --:--:--:-- I REMEMBER THIS ONE POEM WHERE HE'S SINGING, OH, MY MAN 1264 01:07:33:23 --:--:--:-- I THOUGHT THAT WAS SO INTERESTING. 1265 01:07:35:16 --:--:--:-- HE DID A MUSICAL THING IN SIGN. 1266 01:07:38:01 --:--:--:-- PLUS, HE'S DEAF, BUT THE MUSIC SOMEHOW WAS SOMETHING THAT 1267 01:07:41:14 --:--:--:-- HE INCORPORATED. 1268 01:07:42:25 --:--:--:-- I THOUGHT THAT WAS REALLY INTERESTING. 1269 01:07:45:04 --:--:--:-- I REMEMBER REALLY CLEARLY HOW MEASURED AND CALM HE IS 1270 01:07:48:08 --:--:--:-- WITH HIS DELIVERY. 1271 01:07:49:21 --:--:--:-- SOFT, GENTLE HANDS, THE SIGN VERY SMOOTH AND FLOWING. 1272 01:07:54:13 --:--:--:-- HIS HAND SHAPES ARE REALLY, REALLY FINE. 1273 01:07:57:27 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, IF I WERE TO SHOW HOW A PAINTER WOULD PAINT HIM, 1274 01:08:00:10 --:--:--:-- IT WOULD BE LIKE NOT ALL OVER THE PLACE 1275 01:08:02:17 --:--:--:-- IN A FRENETIC WAY. 1276 01:08:04:09 --:--:--:-- ELLA WOULD BE LIKE CIRCULAR LINES ON A CANVAS, BUT PATRICK 1277 01:08:08:09 --:--:--:-- MORE THE SWEET FLOWING THING. 1278 01:08:10:18 --:--:--:-- DEBBIE WOULD BE MORE FRENETIC AND THEN STOPPING FOR A SECOND 1279 01:08:15:03 --:--:--:-- AND THEN EVERYBODY GETS IT AND THEN FRENETIC AGAIN AND THEN 1280 01:08:17:20 --:--:--:-- SLOWLY CHANGING SHAPES AND BEING MORE LIKE A RAINBOW, 1281 01:08:21:21 --:--:--:-- BUT THEN BEING MORE IN AND OUT OF THE LINES. 1282 01:08:27:04 --:--:--:-- AND VALLI, IF YOU WERE TO SHOW HIM AS A PAINTER, HE'D BE 1283 01:08:29:15 --:--:--:-- WHERE THIS VERY FLOWING, GRACEFUL WAY 1284 01:08:32:06 --:--:--:-- OF SHOWING HANDS AND THEN PRESENTING IT TO THE AUDIENCE 1285 01:08:35:13 --:--:--:-- AND MAKING A SORT OF APPEAL TO THE AUDIENCE WHO'S BECOMING PART 1286 01:08:38:15 --:--:--:-- OF HIS WORK. 1287 01:08:40:03 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, FOR ME, I'D JUST THROW THE PAINT AT THE AUDIENCE 1288 01:08:43:01 01:08:44:22 AND IT WOULD GO ALL OVER THEM. 1289 01:08:49:15 --:--:--:-- OR MAYBE I COULD TAKE A BUCKET OF PAINT AND DUMP IT 1290 01:08:52:15 --:--:--:-- ON MY HEAD. 1291 01:08:55:15 --:--:--:-- BERNARD BRAGG? 1292 01:08:59:17 --:--:--:-- WELL, HIS POEMS WOULD BE MORE...MEASURED AND VERY 1293 01:09:04:18 --:--:--:-- RHYTHMIC, LIKE MUSIC IN A SENSE, UP AND DOWN, 1294 01:09:08:06 --:--:--:-- UP AND DOWN, 1295 01:09:09:25 01:09:11:11 THAT KIND OF THING. 1296 01:09:15:00 --:--:--:-- WELL, LIKE I WAS SAYING BEFORE, DEBBIE AND KENNY AND I 1297 01:09:18:16 --:--:--:-- LIVED TOGETHER, SO IT MEANS WE WERE EXPOSING EACH OTHER EVERY 1298 01:09:21:16 --:--:--:-- DAY TO DO THIS, YOU KNOW, PLAYING WITH IDEAS, AND OFTEN, 1299 01:09:26:12 --:--:--:-- WELL, SOMETIMES I'D BE COOKING OR WE WOULD JUST STOP WHAT 1300 01:09:29:16 --:--:--:-- WE WERE DOING AND START PLAYING AND PERFORMING TOGETHER-- 1301 01:09:32:15 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, VERY PHYSICAL ALL THE TIME. 1302 01:09:36:00 --:--:--:-- AND KENNY AND DEBBIE MIGHT DO SOME WORK TOGETHER, AND I 1303 01:09:39:17 --:--:--:-- WOULDN'T BE PART OF THAT MIX, BUT THEN KENNY WOULDN'T BE 1304 01:09:42:00 --:--:--:-- SATISFIED WITH THE WAY DEBBIE WAS DOING SOMETHING, AND HE 1305 01:09:45:07 --:--:--:-- WOULD COME TO ME AND I WOULD GIVE AN IDEA, AND THEN I'D 1306 01:09:48:02 --:--:--:-- BECOME PART OF IT, OR THE OPPOSITE WOULD HAPPEN. 1307 01:09:51:01 --:--:--:-- HE AND I WEREN'T CONNECTING IN TERMS OF AN IDEA, BUT HE 1308 01:09:53:24 --:--:--:-- AND DEBBIE WOULD, SO IT WAS SORT OF THIS 3-WAY SORT 1309 01:09:56:15 --:--:--:-- OF INTERSECTION. I MEAN, IT WAS GREAT! 1310 01:10:00:12 --:--:--:-- TENDED TO BE THE THREE OF US, BUT SOMETIMES IT WOULD BE 1311 01:10:02:19 --:--:--:-- DEBBIE AND KENNY, AND SOMETIMES IT WOULD BE ME AND KENNY 1312 01:10:05:11 --:--:--:-- AND SOMETIMES ME AND DEBBIE. 1313 01:10:07:07 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, THINGS WOULD CHANGE OVER TIME. 1314 01:10:10:03 --:--:--:-- I REMEMBER ONE POEM, "PAINTING RAINBOW" OR SOMETHING. IT WAS 1315 01:10:15:06 --:--:--:-- LIKE A LADDER OR SOMETHING, THROWING PAINT ON THE SKY. 1316 01:10:18:16 --:--:--:-- I REMEMBER SOMETHING LIKE THAT. 1317 01:10:20:09 --:--:--:-- I REMEMBER IT WAS VERY ABSTRACT. 1318 01:10:21:26 --:--:--:-- WE CAME UP WITH THIS IDEA. AND WITH KENNY, IT BECAME MORE 1319 01:10:25:07 --:--:--:-- IMAGERY, BECAME MORE OF A PICTURE, AND THERE WAS ALSO 1320 01:10:28:15 --:--:--:-- A POLITICAL ELEMENT. 1321 01:10:30:17 --:--:--:-- AND THEN OF COURSE ESPECIALLY WITH MISSING CHILDREN, IT WAS 1322 01:10:33:28 --:--:--:-- VERY POLITICAL. 1323 01:10:35:10 --:--:--:-- AND OF COURSE, THEN THERE WAS "RAPE CHOCOLATE," AND YOU KNOW 1324 01:10:38:14 --:--:--:-- THE CALF POEM, THAT WORD POEM THAT DEBBIE DID 1325 01:10:42:26 --:--:--:-- REALLY INCORPORATED A LOT OF HER PERSONAL VIEWS INTO 1326 01:10:45:28 --:--:--:-- HER POETRY. 1327 01:10:47:17 --:--:--:-- I THINK I WAS A BIT MORE GENERAL THAN THAT. 1328 01:10:50:24 --:--:--:-- IT WASN'T QUITE SO PERSONAL. 1329 01:10:52:27 --:--:--:-- I WOULD LOOK AT THESE ISSUES, BUT SHE WAS ALWAYS, WELL, 1330 01:10:57:13 --:--:--:-- SOMETHING THAT WAS MORE PERSONAL TO HER THAT SHE 1331 01:10:59:18 --:--:--:-- NEEDED TO EXPRESS. 1332 01:11:01:11 --:--:--:-- HER TEXTURE WAS DIFFERENT THAN MINE. 1333 01:11:03:21 --:--:--:-- HER TIMING WAS DIFFERENT THAN MINE. 1334 01:11:06:00 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, SLOW MOTION. I LOVE HER SLOW MOTION, ESPECIALLY 1335 01:11:10:04 --:--:--:-- IN MISSING CHILDREN IN SOUTH AFRICA. 1336 01:11:12:21 --:--:--:-- THE MAN IS CARRYING THE COFFIN OF HIS CHILD, AND WHEN HE'S SHOT 1337 01:11:16:15 --:--:--:-- AND HIS EXPRESSION AS THE BULLETS HIT HIM WAS SLOW MOTION. 1338 01:11:20:26 --:--:--:-- HIS WHOLE BODY CONTORTS. 1339 01:11:22:22 --:--:--:-- THEN THERE'S THIS OTHER POEM THAT SHE AND I DID TOGETHER 1340 01:11:25:10 --:--:--:-- CALLED "HAMBURG." 1341 01:11:27:00 --:--:--:-- IT'S A SIMPLE STORY. IT'S ABOUT A LOUSY RELATIONSHIP. 1342 01:11:29:28 --:--:--:-- THEY HAVE A FIGHT. THEY'RE DRIVING IN THE CAR. 1343 01:11:32:13 --:--:--:-- HE HAS THIS BAD BLOWUP AND THE GUY THROWS A HAMBURGER 1344 01:11:34:15 --:--:--:-- AT HIS GIRLFRIEND, 1345 01:11:36:00 --:--:--:-- AND HE PUNCHES THE WINDOW, THE WINDSHIELD, AND BREAKS IT. 1346 01:11:39:20 --:--:--:-- REALLY SIMPLE. NOT MUCH TO IT. 1347 01:11:41:19 --:--:--:-- BUT IT'S LIKE A MOVIE. 1348 01:11:43:03 --:--:--:-- IF YOU'RE SITTING IN AN EDITING ROOM, YOU SAY, 1349 01:11:45:00 --:--:--:-- "OK, I'LL TAKE THAT PART AND COPY AND PASTE OVER HERE. 1350 01:11:48:09 --:--:--:-- THEN I'LL HAVE TO REPEAT THIS OVER AND OVER AGAIN." 1351 01:11:51:05 --:--:--:-- AND WHEN I WATCH THE DVD AND I SAW THAT AGAIN, IT WAS SO COOL 1352 01:11:55:01 --:--:--:-- BECAUSE IN THE BEGINNING WE WERE OPPOSITE MOVEMENTS. 1353 01:11:57:23 --:--:--:-- AND THEN WE WERE TOGETHER. 1354 01:11:59:02 --:--:--:-- AND WE COPY EACH OTHER. THEN WE GO BACK AND FORTH. 1355 01:12:01:17 --:--:--:-- SO IT'S LIKE A MICRO TO MACRO TO MICRO AGAIN. 1356 01:12:04:24 --:--:--:-- AND IT'S ALL IN THE EDITING. 1357 01:12:06:10 --:--:--:-- IT'S LIKE THE ART OF THE EDITING FOR THE WHOLE THING. 1358 01:12:09:00 --:--:--:-- THAT WAS A FASCINATING TECHNIQUE. 1359 01:12:13:14 --:--:--:-- WELL, FIRST, SHE CAME UP WITH HER OWN STORY, 1360 01:12:16:08 --:--:--:-- THE BACK AND FORTH AND THE BACK AND FORTH. 1361 01:12:18:22 --:--:--:-- THAT WAS ALL HER, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, HOW IT WOULD JOIN. 1362 01:12:22:14 --:--:--:-- AND THEN WE WOULD PLAY WITH THAT, AND WE'D GO BACK AND FORTH 1363 01:12:25:00 --:--:--:-- AND THEN WE REALIZED WE WOULD SHATTER 1364 01:12:26:19 --:--:--:-- THE WINDSHIELD TOGETHER. 1365 01:12:28:07 --:--:--:-- AND THEN IT BECAME THIS DUET. 1366 01:12:30:05 --:--:--:-- AT FIRST I SAID, "YES! WOW! WE CAN WORK TOGETHER. 1367 01:12:33:13 --:--:--:-- THAT'S GREAT." 1368 01:12:35:01 --:--:--:-- I THINK WE JUST DID 2 OR 3 POEMS TOGETHER OVER TIME. 1369 01:12:38:00 --:--:--:-- IT WAS WONDERFUL. 1370 01:12:40:05 --:--:--:-- I BECAME REALLY INTO REALIZING THAT SIGN LANGUAGE POETRY 1371 01:12:43:11 --:--:--:-- DIDN'T HAVE TO JUST BE ONE. 1372 01:12:45:00 --:--:--:-- IT COULD BE 2, IT COULD BE 3. IT COULD BE A GROUP POEM. 1373 01:12:48:12 --:--:--:-- I REALLY GOT INTO THAT IDEA LATER. 1374 01:12:50:17 --:--:--:-- THEN WE HAD TO DEAL WITH THE IDEA OF "BRIDGE OF" AND THAT'S 1375 01:12:53:12 --:--:--:-- HOW THAT CAME ABOUT, 1376 01:12:54:25 --:--:--:-- TRYING TO COME UP WITH IDEAS FOR A SHOW. 1377 01:12:56:24 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE ONE HOUR. 1378 01:12:58:16 --:--:--:-- YOU HAVE ONE PERSON WHO'S GONNA DO THE WHOLE THING, AND IT 1379 01:13:01:03 --:--:--:-- DOESN'T MATTER HOW GOOD YOU ARE OR HOW WONDERFUL YOU ARE. 1380 01:13:04:16 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, IT'S REALLY HARD TO KEEP 1381 01:13:06:06 --:--:--:-- AN AUDIENCE ENGAGED FOR AN HOUR WHEN YOU HAVE 1382 01:13:08:26 --:--:--:-- THE SAME SORT OF LEVEL. 1383 01:13:10:14 --:--:--:-- YOU GOTTA BUILD MOMENTUM. 1384 01:13:12:02 --:--:--:-- YOU HAVE TO TAKE THEM UP AND DOWN AND UP AND DOWN AND KEEP 1385 01:13:15:02 --:--:--:-- THINGS FUNNY AND THEN SAD AND THEN MYSTERIOUS OR WHATEVER. 1386 01:13:18:20 --:--:--:-- AND YOU HAVE TO GIVE REST TO THE EYES BY CHANGING THE PACE 1387 01:13:21:11 --:--:--:-- OF THINGS. 1388 01:13:22:22 --:--:--:-- SO WITH "BRIDGE OF," WE HAD ONE PERSON COME UP, THEN TWO, 1389 01:13:26:00 --:--:--:-- THEN ALL OF US, AND THEN ONE. JIM WAS INVOLVED WITH THAT. 1390 01:13:29:15 --:--:--:-- AND DEBBIE WAS IN ON IT, TOO, AND THEN THEY WOULD TAKE TURNS. 1391 01:13:32:10 --:--:--:-- IT WAS MORE LIKE WHEN THEY ASKED ME. "OH, SURE, SURE, I'LL JOIN." 1392 01:13:35:15 --:--:--:-- BUT I REALLY DID NOT HAVE THE LAY OF THE LAND 1393 01:13:38:00 --:--:--:-- IN THE BEGINNING. 1394 01:13:39:12 01:13:41:20 I WASN'T SURE IF I WAS GOOD ENOUGH TO BE IN IT. 1395 01:13:45:15 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, IT WAS AN ATTEMPT TO BRING THE DEAF AND HEARING 1396 01:13:48:04 --:--:--:-- WORLDS TOGETHER IN THE SENSE OF PARITY, EQUALITY, 1397 01:13:51:07 --:--:--:-- AND MUTUAL RESPECT. 1398 01:13:52:22 --:--:--:-- AND I DON'T THINK IT REALLY WORKED OUT THAT WAY TO TELL 1399 01:13:54:28 --:--:--:-- YOU THE TRUTH. 1400 01:13:57:28 --:--:--:-- I'VE REALIZED THAT EITHER THE HEARING WORLD OR THE DEAF WORLD, 1401 01:14:01:01 --:--:--:-- ONE OF THE OTHER HAS TO MAKE CONCESSIONS TO JOIN 1402 01:14:03:15 --:--:--:-- THE OTHERS. 1403 01:14:04:28 --:--:--:-- BUT TO HAVE THIS EXACT EQUALITY WON'T WORK 1404 01:14:08:09 --:--:--:-- BECAUSE THE SITUATION REQUIRES THAT SOMEBODY GIVE A LITTLE 1405 01:14:11:01 01:14:13:18 BIT MORE THAN SOMEBODY ELSE. 1406 01:14:15:00 --:--:--:-- IF SOMETHING IS OBVIOUSLY DEAF- SENSITIVE OR IF TWO HEARING 1407 01:14:18:12 --:--:--:-- PEOPLE ARE TALKING, AND CAN SIGN BUT THEY DON'T, A DEAF 1408 01:14:21:20 --:--:--:-- PERSON COMES UP, IF THEY DECIDE TO SPEAK IN FRONT 1409 01:14:24:22 --:--:--:-- OF A DEAF PERSON, THEN THEY'RE MAKING A DECISION 1410 01:14:26:22 --:--:--:-- FOR EXCLUSION. 1411 01:14:28:02 --:--:--:-- THERE BEING RUDE. 1412 01:14:29:21 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, THAT'S A CULTURAL NORM, RIGHT? 1413 01:14:31:17 --:--:--:-- YOU NEED TO SHOW RESPECT, AND HEARING PEOPLE MIGHT 1414 01:14:34:14 --:--:--:-- REQUIRE PARITY IN A DIFFERENT WAY. 1415 01:14:37:02 --:--:--:-- "BRIDGE OF" ENVISIONED THIS KIND OF PARITY THAT WE WERE ABLE 1416 01:14:40:07 --:--:--:-- TO PROPAGATE, 1417 01:14:41:24 --:--:--:-- BUT IT REALLY DIDN'T WORK OUT THAT WAY. 1418 01:14:44:00 --:--:--:-- WE WILL BE EXACTLY THE SAME. 1419 01:14:46:22 --:--:--:-- WE WILL COME UP WITH OUR OWN NORMS AND CULTURAL VALUES. 1420 01:14:49:25 --:--:--:-- AND CREATE A THIRD WORLD, 1421 01:14:51:24 --:--:--:-- BUT IT JUST DIDN'T WORK THAT WAY. 1422 01:14:53:24 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T IGNORE THE VALUES OF EITHER GROUP 1423 01:14:56:08 --:--:--:-- AT THE EXPENSE OF CREATING THIS THING THAT DOESN'T EXIST 1424 01:14:59:00 --:--:--:-- IN THE MIDDLE. 1425 01:15:00:10 --:--:--:-- BUT I DO FEEL THAT "BRIDGE OF" WAS A GREAT EXERCISE 1426 01:15:02:20 --:--:--:-- AND EXPERIMENT BECAUSE IT MADE US LOOK AT OURSELVES. 1427 01:15:05:23 --:--:--:-- IT MADE US CONFRONT CERTAIN THINGS WITHIN US. 1428 01:15:09:01 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE WAYS I COULD MATCH WITH DEBBIE BETTER, 1429 01:15:11:27 --:--:--:-- AND IN SOME WAYS, I COULD MATCH BETTER WITH KENNY. 1430 01:15:14:21 --:--:--:-- WE ALL WENT OUR SEPARATE WAYS FROM THIS GROUP AND WE ALL 1431 01:15:17:01 --:--:--:-- BECAME MORE OF WHO WE ARE. 1432 01:15:18:26 --:--:--:-- JIM MOVED ON, DEBBIE MOVED ON, KENNY AND I MOVED ON. 1433 01:15:22:16 --:--:--:-- EVERYBODY SORT OF MOVED ON IN THEIR OWN WAY. 1434 01:15:25:08 --:--:--:-- AND THIS TIME WAS SORT OF A REALIZATION, AN IMPETUS 1435 01:15:28:29 --:--:--:-- FOR ALL OF US TO BECOME MORE OF THE INDIVIDUALS WE WERE 1436 01:15:31:00 01:15:32:15 TO BECOME. 1437 01:15:34:15 --:--:--:-- NOW, AS A STUDENT DURING THE FIRST POETRY CONFERENCE. 1438 01:15:39:14 --:--:--:-- YES, RIGHT, STILL A STUDENT. 1439 01:15:42:02 --:--:--:-- YEAH, I WAS STILL A STUDENT. 1440 01:15:46:02 --:--:--:-- THAT'S RIGHT, I WAS TAKING ART CLASSES, I WAS DOING POSTERS, 1441 01:15:50:14 --:--:--:-- ADVERTISING, CREATING POETRY, DOING ALL OF IT--ALL AT ONCE 1442 01:15:54:05 --:--:--:-- AT THE SAME TIME, KIND OF LIKE MY LIFE TODAY. 1443 01:15:56:22 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, I'M A TEACHER. I TEACH CLASSES FULL TIME. 1444 01:15:59:10 --:--:--:-- I TRAVEL ON THE WEEKENDS, I'M A FATHER. 1445 01:16:01:11 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, WHERE'S THE TIME? 1446 01:16:02:28 01:16:05:15 IT'S SOMETHING THAT I DO. IT HASN'T CHANGED. 1447 01:16:07:00 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, AT THAT TIME-- LET ME JUMP AHEAD 1448 01:16:10:00 --:--:--:-- A LITTLE BIT. 1449 01:16:11:11 --:--:--:-- ROCHESTER WAS A REAL HOTBED OF ACTIVITY, AND WE WERE ABLE TO 1450 01:16:14:08 --:--:--:-- GET SOME GRANT MONEY. 1451 01:16:15:26 --:--:--:-- PEOPLE WERE STARTING TO RECOGNIZE THIS DEAF POETRY 1452 01:16:18:15 --:--:--:-- STUFF WAS REALLY COOL. 1453 01:16:20:07 --:--:--:-- AND AT THE TIME, IT WAS CALLED DEAF POETRY. 1454 01:16:22:23 --:--:--:-- IT WASN'T CALLED ASL POETRY YET. 1455 01:16:25:10 --:--:--:-- SO THERE WERE ARTICLES IN THE NEWSPAPERS, MAINSTREAM 1456 01:16:28:00 --:--:--:-- ROCHESTER PRESS ACTUALLY HAD STUFF ABOUT US, AND THINGS 1457 01:16:31:10 --:--:--:-- WERE REALLY HAPPENING. 1458 01:16:33:03 --:--:--:-- AND ABOUT THAT TIME, I MOVED TO CHICAGO. WHEN I GOT HERE, 1459 01:16:35:26 --:--:--:-- I THOUGHT, "WOW, LET'S SET UP THE SCENE HERE." 1460 01:16:38:25 --:--:--:-- SO I STARTED ADVERTISING. 1461 01:16:40:22 --:--:--:-- THERE WAS A BAR THAT AGREED TO LET US USE THEIR STAGE. 1462 01:16:43:28 --:--:--:-- I GOT SOME ADS AROUND. 1463 01:16:45:13 --:--:--:-- NOBODY CAME. 1464 01:16:47:15 --:--:--:-- THAT'S WHEN IT REALLY HIT ME. 1465 01:16:49:13 --:--:--:-- "WOW, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING ENDEMIC TO THE WHOLE U.S. 1466 01:16:54:26 --:--:--:-- "THIS IS SOMETHING SPECIFIC TO ROCHESTER, 1467 01:16:58:25 --:--:--:-- "NO PLACE ELSE. 1468 01:17:00:09 --:--:--:-- NO OTHER PLACE IN THE U.S. EXCEPT ROCHESTER HAD THIS." 1469 01:17:03:11 --:--:--:-- THAT'S WHAT WAS HAPPENING. 1470 01:17:05:04 --:--:--:-- IT WAS THERE, AND I DIDN'T KNOW. 1471 01:17:06:26 --:--:--:-- IT WAS REALLY UNIQUE. 1472 01:17:10:17 01:17:12:00 OHH! 1473 01:17:16:27 --:--:--:-- OH, OF COURSE, I WAS VERY FRUSTRATED WHEN I 1474 01:17:19:00 --:--:--:-- GOT TO CHICAGO. 1475 01:17:20:19 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, MY ART WAS GONE. IT WAS MISSING. 1476 01:17:22:13 --:--:--:-- ALL OF MY WORK, YOU KNOW, I WAS WORKING THIS SH--JOB, 1477 01:17:26:00 --:--:--:-- AND I DIDN'T WANT TO DO THAT. 1478 01:17:29:00 --:--:--:-- IT WAS LIKE I HAD TO START ALL OVER AGAIN, SO I STARTED 1479 01:17:32:17 --:--:--:-- TEACHING POETRY. 1480 01:17:34:03 --:--:--:-- AND THAT'S WHERE I FELT LIKE I WAS BECOMING MYSELF AGAIN. 1481 01:17:37:00 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, LIKE I WOULD WORK DURING THE WEEK, AND THEN I'D 1482 01:17:39:27 --:--:--:-- BE ABLE TO SHOW MY WORK ON THE WEEKEND, 1483 01:17:41:29 --:--:--:-- AND IT FELT MORE LIKE ROCHESTER, 1484 01:17:45:06 --:--:--:-- TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO COME AND WATCH EVERYTHING. 1485 01:17:49:03 --:--:--:-- THEN I STARTED TRAVELING AROUND A LITTLE BIT. 1486 01:17:51:06 --:--:--:-- I'D GO TO PLACES, AND I'D SORT OF TOUCH AND SHOW THINGS 1487 01:17:54:17 --:--:--:-- AND THEN LEAVE AND HOPEFULLY PEOPLE WOULD PICK IT UP. 1488 01:17:58:00 --:--:--:-- I WORKED IN QUEENS AT THE FANWOOD SCHOOL FOR 3 OR 4 YEARS 1489 01:18:01:14 --:--:--:-- ON AN ONGOING BASIS. 1490 01:18:03:11 --:--:--:-- I'D START WITH THESE YOUNG KIDS, YOU KNOW, AND EVERY YEAR 1491 01:18:06:12 --:--:--:-- I WOULD TEACH THEM MORE AND MORE AND MORE SOPHISTICATION 1492 01:18:09:15 --:--:--:-- AS THE YEARS WENT BY, 1493 01:18:11:00 --:--:--:-- AND THEY WERE DOING REALLY WELL. 1494 01:18:13:04 --:--:--:-- SO I BROUGHT THEM, I THINK IT WAS TO THE THIRD CONFERENCE 1495 01:18:16:00 --:--:--:-- OR WHATEVER IT WAS, 1496 01:18:17:10 --:--:--:-- AND THESE KIDS DID SUCH GREAT WORK. 1497 01:18:20:00 --:--:--:-- I WAS SO PROUD OF THEM. 1498 01:18:22:15 --:--:--:-- IT WAS GROUP HOMES. IT WAS ONE-ON-ONE, IT WAS ALL KINDS 1499 01:18:25:15 --:--:--:-- OF VARIETY THINGS, AND I THINK NTD, I THINK ACTUALLY TAPED 1500 01:18:30:16 --:--:--:-- THAT SHOW. 1501 01:18:32:08 --:--:--:-- AND SOMEONE IN THE AUDIENCE ASKED A QUESTION. 1502 01:18:34:09 --:--:--:-- HE SAID, "YOU GUYS ARE SO GREAT. 1503 01:18:35:18 --:--:--:-- "HOW DID YOU LEARN THIS? 1504 01:18:37:01 --:--:--:-- "HOW DID YOU LEARN TO BE SO CLEAR? 1505 01:18:38:09 --:--:--:-- HOW DID YOU LEARN THESE TECHNIQUES?" 1506 01:18:40:00 --:--:--:-- AND ONE OF THE STUDENTS, I THINK HIS NAME WAS LARRY, 1507 01:18:43:01 --:--:--:-- THIS BLACK KID SAID, "I LEARNED FROM YOU 1508 01:18:46:03 --:--:--:-- "AND YOU AND YOU. 1509 01:18:47:25 --:--:--:-- "I LEARNED FROM VALLI, I LEARNED FROM ELLA, I LEARNED 1510 01:18:50:11 --:--:--:-- "FROM PATRICK GRAYBILL, I LEARNED FROM PETER COOK. 1511 01:18:53:01 --:--:--:-- "I LEARNED FROM YOU. 1512 01:18:54:15 --:--:--:-- YOU WERE MY TEACHERS." 1513 01:18:55:27 --:--:--:-- IT WAS SO TOUCHING. 1514 01:18:57:09 01:18:59:17 I THOUGHT, "THAT'S WHAT WE NEED." 1515 01:19:04:00 --:--:--:-- SO WHO PERFORMS? WHO TAKES THIS WORK ON? 1516 01:19:07:00 --:--:--:-- WE NEED THAT. PEOPLE NEED TO DO IT. 1517 01:19:10:11 --:--:--:-- IT NEEDS TO BE IN THE WORLD EVERY DAY. 1518 01:19:12:15 01:19:14:19 AND OFTEN, WE FORGET THAT. 1519 01:19:19:00 --:--:--:-- I REMEMBER JOE WAS RUNNING A SMALL PUBLISHER'S CONFERENCE, 1520 01:19:23:04 --:--:--:-- AND I THINK THERE WEREN'T TOO MANY PEOPLE THERE, YOU KNOW. 1521 01:19:26:27 --:--:--:-- AND WE PERFORMED, AND I THINK I WAS--MADE, OH, MAYBE $25. 1522 01:19:33:07 --:--:--:-- I SAID, "OH, GREAT. 1523 01:19:34:26 --:--:--:-- I DON'T CARE. $25. GREAT." 1524 01:19:37:15 --:--:--:-- I WAS A LANGUAGE SLUT. 1525 01:19:41:00 --:--:--:-- THAT'S WHAT I CALLED MYSELF. A LANGUAGE SLUT. 1526 01:19:44:10 --:--:--:-- YES, I AM A LANGUAGE SLUT, AND I AM PROUD OF IT! 1527 01:19:50:11 --:--:--:-- ANYWAY, YEAH, I REMEMBER WE AGREED TO GO PERFORM FOR THIS 1528 01:19:54:01 --:--:--:-- SMALL PUBLISHER'S CONFERENCE, AND WE PERFORMED "CHARLIE" 1529 01:19:58:18 --:--:--:-- ABOUT A DOG DURING THE VIETNAM WAR. 1530 01:20:01:16 --:--:--:-- VERY STRONG POEM THAT KENNY AND I HAD COLLABORATED ON. 1531 01:20:05:04 --:--:--:-- WE'D COME UP WITH A LOT OF STUFF, BUT THIS WAS A VERY 1532 01:20:07:26 --:--:--:-- STRONG ONE. 1533 01:20:09:05 --:--:--:-- PLUS, IT WAS LIKE A LEARNING TOOL FOR US. 1534 01:20:11:24 --:--:--:-- WE WERE USING NEW TECHNIQUES THAT WE HAD NEVER USED BEFORE. 1535 01:20:14:27 --:--:--:-- SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, YOU DO A POEM AND THEN YOU DO IT AGAIN 1536 01:20:17:20 --:--:--:-- AND AGAIN, AND IT TAKES A WHILE TO UNDERSTAND IT. 1537 01:20:20:14 --:--:--:-- BUT THEN YOU KIND OF TOP OUT. 1538 01:20:22:05 --:--:--:-- BUT THIS ONE, I STILL LEARN FROM EVERY DAY WITH THIS POEM. 1539 01:20:26:03 --:--:--:-- ANYWAY, WE PERFORMED THIS POEM TO THE AUDIENCE, AND WHEN 1540 01:20:28:27 --:--:--:-- WE'RE DONE, WE MET A LOT OF PEOPLE. 1541 01:20:30:22 --:--:--:-- AND THIS ONE GUY COMES UP TO US. 1542 01:20:32:11 --:--:--:-- HIS NAME WAS GREGORY KOLOVAKOS. 1543 01:20:35:15 --:--:--:-- AND HE SAID, "HELLO, MY NAME IS GREGORY, AND I WORK 1544 01:20:37:24 --:--:--:-- "FOR THE NEW YORK ARTS COUNCIL. 1545 01:20:41:00 --:--:--:-- I'M IN THE LIT DIVISION, AND I'D LIKE TO GIVE YOU MONEY." 1546 01:20:44:00 --:--:--:-- I SAID, "SURE, LAY IT ON ME. 1547 01:20:45:26 --:--:--:-- I'LL TAKE IT." 1548 01:20:47:09 --:--:--:-- HE SAID, "NO, I'M SERIOUS. 1549 01:20:49:13 --:--:--:-- "I CAN GET YOU GRANTS. I WANT TO GIVE YOU MONEY. 1550 01:20:52:15 --:--:--:-- IF YOU WRITE A GRANT WE'LL GIVE YOU THE MONEY FOR IT." 1551 01:20:55:15 --:--:--:-- I SAID, "WELL, WE'VE NEVER REALLY 1552 01:20:57:00 --:--:--:-- WRITTEN GRANTS BEFORE. WE DON'T HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE." 1553 01:20:59:10 --:--:--:-- AND HE SAID, "WELL, I'LL HELP YOU." 1554 01:21:00:25 --:--:--:-- AND SURE ENOUGH, HE FLIES TO ROCHESTER, SITS DOWN WITH US, 1555 01:21:05:03 --:--:--:-- WALKS US THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS, TEACHES US EVERY 1556 01:21:08:08 --:--:--:-- LITTLE IN-AND-OUT, YOU KNOW, AND HE SAID WHERE WE NEEDED TO COME UP 1557 01:21:10:18 --:--:--:-- WITH AN ORGANIZATION NAME, AND IT WOULD BE 1558 01:21:12:24 --:--:--:-- A NONPROFIT OR WHATEVER. 1559 01:21:14:09 --:--:--:-- AND THEN WE'LL GIVE YOU THE MONEY. 1560 01:21:16:01 --:--:--:-- SO WE WROTE THIS THING. 1561 01:21:17:12 --:--:--:-- HE FLEW OUT, GAVE IT TO HIS COMMITTEE AND SAID, "APPROVE 1562 01:21:20:05 --:--:--:-- THESE GUYS RIGHT NOW. 1563 01:21:22:09 --:--:--:-- I WANT TO GIVE THEM MONEY." 1564 01:21:24:05 --:--:--:-- AND IT WAS APPROVED JUST LIKE THAT. 1565 01:21:26:14 --:--:--:-- THEY GAVE US $10,000, AND IT WAS FOR DEAF POETRY 1566 01:21:29:15 --:--:--:-- IN ROCHESTER 1567 01:21:31:04 01:21:33:08 SO WE COULD BRING OTHER DEAF POETS IN. 1568 01:21:36:15 --:--:--:-- WE BROUGHT MALZ IN. 1569 01:21:38:11 01:21:42:02 WE BROUGHT IN SERGE BRIERE AND JOHANNA BOULANGER. 1570 01:21:44:25 --:--:--:-- AW, YEAH. BLESS THEM. 1571 01:21:46:14 --:--:--:-- SERGE IS GONE, BUT AW, MAN, HE WAS AMAZING, AN AMAZING PERSON. 1572 01:21:51:15 --:--:--:-- I MET HIM AT THE NTD SUMMER SCHOOL. 1573 01:21:55:00 --:--:--:-- IT WAS GREAT. 1574 01:21:56:15 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, THE WAY I RECOGNIZED AND THE WAY 1575 01:21:58:16 --:--:--:-- HE TOOK MY ATTENTION WAS WE WERE IN THIS ACTING CLASS, 1576 01:22:01:25 --:--:--:-- AND THE TEACHER GAVE US A SCRIPT AND SAID, "I WANT YOU 1577 01:22:04:28 --:--:--:-- TO SHOW THIS." 1578 01:22:06:20 --:--:--:-- SERGE CAME UP TO ME, AND HE DIDN'T ACT. WHAT HE DID WAS 1579 01:22:09:15 --:--:--:-- LIKE POETRY. 1580 01:22:11:00 --:--:--:-- HE DID LIKE A POEM. 1581 01:22:12:12 --:--:--:-- AND THE TEACHER SAID, "NO, NO, NO, I DON'T WANT THAT." 1582 01:22:14:26 --:--:--:-- "I WANT SOMETHING INTERNAL. I WANT SOMETHING ELSE. 1583 01:22:17:00 --:--:--:-- I WANT THE LINES." 1584 01:22:18:16 --:--:--:-- AND I SAID, "WELL, SCREW THAT. 1585 01:22:20:09 --:--:--:-- "I MEAN, THIS GUY'S GOT IT. HE IS DOING IT. 1586 01:22:23:12 --:--:--:-- HE HAS WHAT IT IS INSIDE, AND I WANT THAT." 1587 01:22:27:03 --:--:--:-- SO SURE ENOUGH, WE BROUGHT HIM AND JOHANNA TO ROCHESTER. 1588 01:22:31:07 --:--:--:-- HE'S ONE OF THE DEAF POETS THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T 1589 01:22:33:15 --:--:--:-- KNOW MUCH ABOUT. 1590 01:22:34:27 --:--:--:-- HE WAS SO BEAUTIFUL, THE WAY HE USED HIS HANDS AND HIS EYES. 1591 01:22:38:23 --:--:--:-- I LEARNED SO MUCH FROM HOW HE USED HIS EYES. 1592 01:22:41:04 --:--:--:-- IN EVERYDAY LANGUAGE, ASL, IT DEPENDS VERY STRONGLY 1593 01:22:44:26 --:--:--:-- ON EYES FOR EYE CONTACT, 1594 01:22:46:25 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, TO GET PEOPLE'S ATTENTION AND INDICATE WHERE PEOPLE ARE LOOKING. 1595 01:22:50:15 --:--:--:-- BUT THE WAY HE USED HIS EYE GAZE TO REFERENCE HIS HAND-- 1596 01:22:53:15 --:--:--:-- HE WOULD DO LIKE A TREE, 1597 01:22:55:20 --:--:--:-- AND HE'D WATCH THE TREE AND REACT TO IT. 1598 01:22:57:15 --:--:--:-- IT WAS FASCINATING, PLUS HE WAS VERY, VERY MEASURED. 1599 01:23:01:15 --:--:--:-- NO HURRIES. 1600 01:23:03:04 --:--:--:-- CLARITY WAS OF THE UTMOST IMPORTANCE, GIVING THE 1601 01:23:05:27 --:--:--:-- AUDIENCE TIME TO ABSORB WHAT THEY SAW AND TOTALLY GET IT 1602 01:23:09:13 --:--:--:-- INSTEAD OF BEING BARRAGED WITH IMAGERY. 1603 01:23:12:07 --:--:--:-- SOMETIMES, I'M SORT OF LIKE THROWING THINGS 1604 01:23:14:23 --:--:--:-- AT THE AUDIENCE, BUT HE WAS SO CLEAR. 1605 01:23:17:00 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IT WAS 1606 01:23:18:23 --:--:--:-- SO CLEAR AND SIMPLE AND YET COMPLEX AT THE SAME TIME. 1607 01:23:22:25 --:--:--:-- I WORKED WITH HIM TOGETHER-- KENNY, SERGE, JOHANNA, 1608 01:23:27:03 --:--:--:-- AND I WORKED TOGETHER AND DEVELOPED A HOLOCAUST PIECE 1609 01:23:29:12 --:--:--:-- CALLED "ONLY 13." 1610 01:23:31:10 --:--:--:-- AND WE EXPERIMENTED WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT TECHNIQUES. I MEAN 1611 01:23:34:19 --:--:--:-- WE WERE JUST PUSHING THE BOUNDARIES AND THE LANGUAGE 1612 01:23:36:27 --:--:--:-- BEYOND ANYTHING THAT HAD EVER BEEN PUSHED BEFORE. 1613 01:23:39:14 --:--:--:-- WE'D PUSH EVERY DAY, AND OUR GOAL WAS JUST TO LET GO, LET GO 1614 01:23:44:04 --:--:--:-- OF THE CONSTRUCTS OF THE LANGUAGE AND HAVE IT 1615 01:23:46:02 --:--:--:-- BECOME ART, HAVE IT BECOME KINETIC. 1616 01:23:49:01 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE FUNCTION. 1617 01:23:50:17 --:--:--:-- WORRY ABOUT THE IMAGE. 1618 01:23:51:29 --:--:--:-- IT WAS LIKE THIS GREAT EXPERIENCE TO WORK WITH HIM-- 1619 01:23:54:18 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, SO OPEN. 1620 01:23:56:03 --:--:--:-- WE TRIED THINGS WITH BLACK LIGHTS. 1621 01:23:58:06 --:--:--:-- WE DID THINGS IN CIRCLES. 1622 01:23:59:21 --:--:--:-- WE DID ALL THESE DIFFERENT TECHNIQUES WE NEVER THOUGHT 1623 01:24:01:00 --:--:--:-- OF BEFORE. 1624 01:24:02:22 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, BLESS HIM. 1625 01:24:04:00 --:--:--:-- THE WORLD HAS CHANGED NOW HE'S GONE. 1626 01:24:05:29 01:24:08:05 IT'S A LESSER PLACE WITHOUT HIM. 1627 01:24:14:24 --:--:--:-- OH, THERE'S ANOTHER DEAF POET THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T 1628 01:24:17:17 --:--:--:-- KNOW ABOUT-- JOSEPH CASTRONOVO. 1629 01:24:20:08 --:--:--:-- HE'S AMAZING. 1630 01:24:22:17 --:--:--:-- HE KNOWS FRENCH, ITALIAN, SPANISH. 1631 01:24:26:18 --:--:--:-- AND WHAT HE DOES IS, HE FUSES DIFFERENT ELEMENTS 1632 01:24:29:06 --:--:--:-- OF ALL THOSE LANGUAGES AND PUTS THEM TOGETHER OUT 1633 01:24:31:15 --:--:--:-- ON HIS HANDS. 1634 01:24:33:10 --:--:--:-- I THINK DIRKSEN HAS ONE VIDEOTAPE OF HIS. 1635 01:24:35:27 --:--:--:-- HE COMMITTED SUICIDE, SO HE'S GONE. 1636 01:24:38:12 --:--:--:-- VERY, VERY TRAGIC. 1637 01:24:40:14 --:--:--:-- BECAUSE HIS VISION, HIS VIEW OF THE WORLD, IT WAS 1638 01:24:45:18 --:--:--:-- SO DIFFERENT. 1639 01:24:47:02 --:--:--:-- HE HAD SUCH A DIFFERENT WAY OF LOOKING AT THINGS. 1640 01:24:49:19 --:--:--:-- AND THE WAY HE WENT ABOUT DEAF POETRY WAS REALLY 1641 01:24:53:17 --:--:--:-- HOT ISSUES, WHAT HE DID. 1642 01:24:55:02 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, HE WAS ALREADY THERE, YOU KNOW. 1643 01:24:57:01 --:--:--:-- HE WAS LIKE ALREADY WAY AHEAD OF THE GAME AND WAITING 1644 01:25:00:04 01:25:02:08 FOR EVERYBODY ELSE TO CATCH UP. 1645 01:25:07:15 --:--:--:-- YEAH, IT WAS SOME SHORT POEM, SOMETHING LIKE A VOICE WAS 1646 01:25:12:02 --:--:--:-- STUCK AND IT GOES INTO THE HAND AND BECOMES LEGS AND THEN 1647 01:25:15:23 --:--:--:-- IT BECOMES A SPIRIT OR SOMETHING. 1648 01:25:17:28 --:--:--:-- HIS TRANSFORMATIONS WERE INCREDIBLE. 1649 01:25:20:24 --:--:--:-- VOICE UP IN THE TREE, STUCK ON THE BARK. 1650 01:25:23:15 --:--:--:-- THE TREE GOES DOWN, THE PERSON WALKS, ASCENDS UP 1651 01:25:26:15 --:--:--:-- INTO THE SKY. 1652 01:25:28:09 --:--:--:-- I CAN'T REMEMBER IT ANY MORE CLEARLY THAN THAT, BUT WOW. 1653 01:25:31:25 --:--:--:-- AND NOW, THAT'S GONE. 1654 01:25:33:21 --:--:--:-- VALLI'S GONE, TOO, YOU KNOW. DOT MILES IS GONE. 1655 01:25:37:29 --:--:--:-- A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GONE, BUT THEIR WORK IS STILL 1656 01:25:40:00 --:--:--:-- OUT THERE. 1657 01:25:41:18 --:--:--:-- AND SERGE, TOO. 'COURSE, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO DOCUMENT 1658 01:25:45:12 --:--:--:-- THESE THINGS AND TO HAVE THIS. 1659 01:25:48:06 --:--:--:-- AND AS LONG AS WE HAVE THEM DOCUMENTED, THEN THEIR 1660 01:25:50:10 --:--:--:-- SPIRIT LIVES ON. 1661 01:25:51:20 --:--:--:-- NOW, YOU KNOW, YOUNGER PEOPLE NEED TO SOMEHOW SEE THIS 1662 01:25:54:14 --:--:--:-- AND HAVE IT INSIDE OF THEM. 1663 01:25:56:13 --:--:--:-- THEY NEED TO TAKE THOSE HEARTS AND SOULS AND CARRY IT 1664 01:25:59:00 --:--:--:-- WITH THEM. 1665 01:26:02:19 --:--:--:-- YEAH, WE BROUGHT DEAF POETS IN AND WE HAD THE HEARING 1666 01:26:05:17 --:--:--:-- COMMUNITY INVOLVED ALSO. 1667 01:26:07:13 --:--:--:-- IT WASN'T JUST THE INTERPRETING COMMUNITY. 1668 01:26:09:28 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, TRADITIONALLY IF THERE WAS A DEAF EVENT, 1669 01:26:12:12 --:--:--:-- CERTAIN GROUPS OF PEOPLE WOULD SHOW UP. 1670 01:26:14:18 --:--:--:-- YOU HAD DEAF PEOPLE, YOU HAD INTERPRETER TRAINING STUDENTS, 1671 01:26:18:16 --:--:--:-- ASL STUDENTS, AND THEN YOU'D HAVE INTERPRETERS WHO WERE 1672 01:26:21:09 --:--:--:-- ALREADY WORKING IN THE FIELD. 1673 01:26:23:06 --:--:--:-- THE GREATER HEARING COMMUNITY WOULDN'T KNOW 1674 01:26:24:28 --:--:--:-- ANYTHING ABOUT IT. 1675 01:26:26:12 --:--:--:-- IF THERE WERE OTHER HEARING PEOPLE, THEN IT WAS FAMILY 1676 01:26:28:25 --:--:--:-- MEMBERS, BUT IN ROCHESTER, THAT IS NOT WHAT 1677 01:26:31:29 --:--:--:-- WAS HAPPENING. 1678 01:26:33:05 --:--:--:-- YEAH, OF COURSE DEAF COMMUNITY PEOPLE SHOWED UP. 1679 01:26:35:19 --:--:--:-- AND THERE WERE INTERPRETERS AND INTERPRETING STUDENTS 1680 01:26:38:13 --:--:--:-- AND THERE WERE PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO LEARN ASL, 1681 01:26:40:21 --:--:--:-- BUT THE HEARING PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING 1682 01:26:43:01 --:--:--:-- ABOUT DEAF PEOPLE CAME ALSO. 1683 01:26:45:09 --:--:--:-- IT WAS AMAZING. 1684 01:26:46:21 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, LIKE DEAF PEOPLE WERE GOING TO HEAR 1685 01:26:49:00 --:--:--:-- HEARING POETS, TOO. 1686 01:26:50:25 --:--:--:-- MAYBE PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT EACH OTHER OR EACH OTHER'S 1687 01:26:53:02 --:--:--:-- CULTURES, BUT THEY WERE GOING OUT OF CURIOSITY. SO THESE 1688 01:26:56:20 --:--:--:-- AUDIENCES BECAME BIGGER AND BIGGER, AND IT BECAME 1689 01:26:59:00 --:--:--:-- REALLY POPULAR. 1690 01:27:00:15 --:--:--:-- WE STARTED GETTING MORE MONEY FROM THE GRANTS THAT WE WROTE 1691 01:27:03:00 --:--:--:-- EVERY YEAR. 1692 01:27:04:18 --:--:--:-- KENNY SAID, "WHAT ABOUT YOUNGER PEOPLE WHO WANT TO TRY 1693 01:27:06:24 --:--:--:-- DOING THIS POETRY STUFF BUT ONLY HAVE A FEW THINGS?" 1694 01:27:10:05 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, I WANT TO DO THIS. IT'S LIKE HOW I WAS WHEN I 1695 01:27:13:00 --:--:--:-- SAW BERNARD BRAGG. 1696 01:27:14:17 --:--:--:-- WHAT IS ANYONE DOING FOR THEM? 1697 01:27:17:00 --:--:--:-- SO WE THOUGHT, "WHY NOT DO A ROOKIE NIGHT?" 1698 01:27:20:15 --:--:--:-- SO WE SET ONE UP. 1699 01:27:22:00 --:--:--:-- ANYBODY WHO WANTED COULD GET TOGETHER AND, YOU KNOW, THEY 1700 01:27:25:22 --:--:--:-- COULD SHOW US OUR WORK AND WE'D GIVE THEM FEEDBACK AND WE GET 1701 01:27:28:16 --:--:--:-- TOGETHER AND KIND OF REHEARSE THINGS OUT UNTIL, YOU KNOW, 1702 01:27:31:24 --:--:--:-- THINGS WERE THE WAY THEY WANTED IT. 1703 01:27:33:19 --:--:--:-- AND THEN, YOU KNOW, SOME THINGS WERE PROBABLY NOT THE WAY I 1704 01:27:37:14 --:--:--:-- WOULD'VE DONE IT, BUT YOU HAD TO RESPECT WHAT THEY WERE 1705 01:27:39:16 --:--:--:-- DOING, THEIR TECHNIQUE AND SO FORTH. 1706 01:27:41:23 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, IT WAS THEIR WORK. 1707 01:27:43:14 --:--:--:-- AND SO IT WAS REALLY GOOD. I THINK WE HAD 3 ALTOGETHER. 1708 01:27:48:07 --:--:--:-- THE FIRST ONE WAS AWESOME! 1709 01:27:50:00 --:--:--:-- AND THE SECOND ONE BY THAT TIME STARTED DOING MORE 1710 01:27:53:12 --:--:--:-- PERFORMANCE ART. 1711 01:27:55:02 --:--:--:-- I REMEMBER THIS LAST TIME, THERE WAS A TV INVOLVED! 1712 01:27:58:21 01:28:02:15 ONE OF THE GUYS, HE'S MAKING LOVE TO A TELEVISION. HA HA! 1713 01:28:06:15 --:--:--:-- JONATHAN LEVITAN, YOU KNOW, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. 1714 01:28:10:13 --:--:--:-- I REMEMBER HIM. 1715 01:28:11:25 --:--:--:-- HE'S MAKING LOVE TO A TV. 1716 01:28:13:26 --:--:--:-- AND I THOUGHT, "OK, IS THAT POETRY? 1717 01:28:18:15 01:28:23:00 POETRY IS...I GUESS IT COULD BE WITH A TV." 1718 01:28:26:00 --:--:--:-- BUT YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A LOT MORE PERFORMANCE ART 1719 01:28:28:16 --:--:--:-- PLUS MEDIA. 1720 01:28:30:04 --:--:--:-- AND THEN AT THE CONFERENCE, I REMEMBER THEY WERE PLAYING 1721 01:28:33:22 --:--:--:-- WITH THIS BIG MOVIE SCREEN. 1722 01:28:35:22 --:--:--:-- I FORGET THE GUY'S NAME... BIG GUY... 1723 01:28:38:15 --:--:--:-- UM, A.J. CLARK? 1724 01:28:42:15 01:28:44:15 A.J. COOK? 1725 01:28:46:15 --:--:--:-- YEAH, HE WOULD INTERACT WITH THE MOVIE SCREEN AND GO BACK 1726 01:28:49:12 --:--:--:-- AND FORTH PLAYING WITH IT. 1727 01:28:51:07 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, YOU JUST SEE THAT KIND OF THING NOW. 1728 01:28:53:04 --:--:--:-- ROSALIE, RIGHT, YES. 1729 01:28:55:00 --:--:--:-- SHE DOES THAT. 1730 01:28:57:15 --:--:--:-- YEAH, ROSALIE WAS THE NEXT PERSON, AND HOPEFULLY, 1731 01:29:02:08 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GONNA ENCOURAGE MORE OF THAT 1732 01:29:04:02 01:29:05:15 KIND OF THING. 1733 01:29:11:11 --:--:--:-- BUT EVERYTHING WAS JUST RIGHT. 1734 01:29:14:03 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE OPENING SHOW WAS GREAT. 1735 01:29:17:00 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY WOULD GO BACK AND FORTH IN INTERACTION 1736 01:29:19:15 --:--:--:-- WITH THE AUDIENCE. 1737 01:29:20:28 01:29:22:15 IT WAS AWESOME! IT WAS SO HOT! 1738 01:29:27:00 --:--:--:-- YEAH, I REMEMBER HE TALKED ABOUT A FLOWER AND A BEE, AND HE WAS 1739 01:29:32:03 --:--:--:-- USING SOME OF THOSE CINEMATIC TECHNIQUES, YOU KNOW, BECOMING 1740 01:29:35:25 --:--:--:-- THE DIFFERENT THINGS, USING THAT IDEA OF PERSONIFICATION. 1741 01:29:40:25 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, CLOSE-UP, LONGSHOTS, GOING BACK AND FORTH. 1742 01:29:45:15 --:--:--:-- PLUS, HE KIND OF LET GO OF SOME OF THOSE CINEMATIC 1743 01:29:50:18 --:--:--:-- TECHNIQUES AND WOULD LIKE DO THE LINE, LIKE, 1744 01:29:53:24 --:--:--:-- "BEAUTIFUL AS HONEY." 1745 01:29:57:12 --:--:--:-- AND IT WOULD BECOME SOMETHING CONCRETE WITH WORDS, AND THEN 1746 01:30:00:16 --:--:--:-- ALL OF A SUDDEN IT WOULD BECOME THE IMAGE, AND THEN HE 1747 01:30:03:07 --:--:--:-- WOULD LET GO OF THE WORDS AND GO BACK AND FORTH, AND HE'D DO 1748 01:30:06:23 01:30:09:11 IT BY FOLLOWING THE EYE GAZE. 1749 01:30:13:00 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, HE WOULD LIKE LOOK AT THE THING AND THEN MOVE HIS 1750 01:30:15:15 --:--:--:-- EYES AWAY. 1751 01:30:17:04 --:--:--:-- YOU SEE HOW HIS MIND WAS SWITCHING BACK AND FORTH 1752 01:30:19:18 --:--:--:-- BETWEEN A LOGIC, VERBAL, AND IMAGERY. 1753 01:30:25:00 --:--:--:-- HE KEPT WORKING AT IT, YOU KNOW HE KEEPS FIGHTING IT. 1754 01:30:28:09 01:30:30:15 HE'S GOT HIS ENERGY. THAT'S HIS ART. 1755 01:30:33:15 01:30:36:00 RIGHT, YES. AND HE LOVES MUSIC. 1756 01:30:40:00 --:--:--:-- WHY DID I COME UP WITH THAT ONE? 1757 01:30:42:01 --:--:--:-- WELL, AT THE TIME, I WAS EXPERIMENTING A LOT AND I WAS 1758 01:30:44:22 --:--:--:-- IN THE THEATER, STILL A STUDENT. 1759 01:30:47:01 --:--:--:-- BUT I REALLY LIKED PERFORMING ART A LOT BECAUSE MY 1760 01:30:49:15 --:--:--:-- MAJOR WAS ART. 1761 01:30:50:26 --:--:--:-- AND I LIKED THE EXPERIMENTAL NATURE OF IT. 1762 01:30:53:18 --:--:--:-- SO I HAD GROWN UP IN ALL THESE ORAL SCHOOLS, AND I WAS STILL 1763 01:30:56:04 --:--:--:-- AMAZED BECAUSE ONCE I LEARNED SIGN LANGUAGE, EVERYTHING 1764 01:30:59:03 --:--:--:-- SEEMED SO MUCH EASIER TO ME. 1765 01:31:00:20 --:--:--:-- BUT I STRUGGLED SO LONG WITH THE ORAL METHOD, 1766 01:31:03:10 --:--:--:-- AND I DIDN'T FEEL LIKE I GOT ANY SKILLS OR LEARNED 1767 01:31:06:00 --:--:--:-- ANYTHING FROM IT. 1768 01:31:08:26 --:--:--:-- I WAS LEARNING ABOUT DEAF CULTURE AND UNDERSTANDING MORE 1769 01:31:12:29 --:--:--:-- AND MORE ABOUT DEAFNESS AND DEAF PEOPLE. 1770 01:31:15:06 --:--:--:-- AND I WANTED TO EXPRESS THAT ABOUT HOW THIS MANIPULATION 1771 01:31:18:02 --:--:--:-- OF LANGUAGE AND OPPRESSION AND PATERNALISM WAS KEEPING 1772 01:31:21:15 --:--:--:-- EVERYBODY DOWN. 1773 01:31:22:28 --:--:--:-- THE ISSUES OF IT, THE COLONIALISM, ALL THE 1774 01:31:25:27 --:--:--:-- THINGS THAT WERE OPPRESSING DEAF PEOPLE, AND I THOUGHT, 1775 01:31:28:06 --:--:--:-- "WHY DO I NOT TALK? 1776 01:31:30:22 --:--:--:-- "DOESN'T MATTER IF I'M NOT CLEAR, PEOPLE WON'T 1777 01:31:32:18 --:--:--:-- "UNDERSTAND ME. 1778 01:31:33:23 --:--:--:-- WHY DO I NOT?" 1779 01:31:35:05 --:--:--:-- IT'S BECAUSE IT'S NOT FOR HEARING PEOPLE ANYWAY. 1780 01:31:37:00 --:--:--:-- I JUST WANT TO SAY, "HERE I AM. 1781 01:31:39:10 --:--:--:-- "I AM THE PRODUCT OF THE ORALISM METHOD. PERIOD. 1782 01:31:42:19 --:--:--:-- "THIS IS WHAT YOU GET. 1783 01:31:43:28 --:--:--:-- HELLO! I AM YOUR ORAL SUCCESS STORY." 1784 01:31:47:05 --:--:--:-- HOW COULD I FIND ANYTHING THAT WOULD PROVE IT EVEN MORE THAN 1785 01:31:49:00 --:--:--:-- THAT WOULD? 1786 01:31:50:15 --:--:--:-- "ORALISM DIDN'T WORK FOR ME. PERIOD. AND HERE'S THE OUTCOME." 1787 01:31:55:00 --:--:--:-- SO I WROTE THIS DOWN, AND THEN I THOUGHT WHAT I WOULD DO IS 1788 01:31:57:12 --:--:--:-- FORCE KENNY TO SIGN IT BECAUSE HE'S NOT A NATIVE SIGNER. 1789 01:32:00:15 --:--:--:-- I THOUGHT "YOU SIGN." 1790 01:32:02:10 --:--:--:-- HE SAID, "I DON'T WANT TO. I DON'T WANT TO. I'M THE VOICE." 1791 01:32:05:15 --:--:--:-- I SAID, "NO, NO, THAT'S THE POINT. 1792 01:32:07:04 --:--:--:-- "I'M LOUSY WITH MY VOICE, AND YOU'RE A LOUSY SIGNER. 1793 01:32:10:00 --:--:--:-- SO COME ON." 1794 01:32:11:13 --:--:--:-- AND HE SAID, "OK." 1795 01:32:13:07 --:--:--:-- SO WE WENT ON STAGE AND DID IT, AND WE PLAYED WITH THAT 1796 01:32:16:00 --:--:--:-- BACK AND FORTH. 1797 01:32:17:15 --:--:--:-- I HAVE TO ADMIT, I WAS VERY NERVOUS 1798 01:32:19:14 --:--:--:-- ABOUT THE DEAF AUDIENCES. 1799 01:32:21:04 --:--:--:-- I KNOW TALKING ABOUT ORALISM IS SOMETIMES TABOO. 1800 01:32:24:00 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, IT'S A REALLY HOT ISSUE. 1801 01:32:25:15 --:--:--:-- BUT I THINK IT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO CONFRONT HEAD-ON, 1802 01:32:28:14 --:--:--:-- ESPECIALLY THROUGH ART, 1803 01:32:30:01 --:--:--:-- BECAUSE IF SOMEBODY'S ANGRY, WHY ARE THEY ANGRY? 1804 01:32:33:11 --:--:--:-- I WANT TO SHOW PEOPLE THAT I UNDERSTAND THIS, 1805 01:32:35:22 --:--:--:-- THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I'VE BEEN THROUGH. 1806 01:32:37:15 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, YOU CAN UNDERSTAND IT IF YOU'VE 1807 01:32:39:00 --:--:--:-- BEEN THROUGH IT. 1808 01:32:40:15 --:--:--:-- I WANTED TO GO TO THAT PLACE WHERE FINALLY I CAN SHOW THAT, 1809 01:32:43:14 --:--:--:-- THAT THIS IS MY WORLD. 1810 01:32:45:07 --:--:--:-- I CAN SHOW WHAT HAPPENED IN MY PAST AND YOU'LL GET IT. 1811 01:32:49:00 --:--:--:-- THAT'S A PLACE OF COMFORT. 1812 01:32:52:21 --:--:--:-- AND BEFORE EVERY PERFORMANCE, I'D EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE, 1813 01:32:55:03 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, "KENNY IS NOT VOICING. 1814 01:32:56:20 --:--:--:-- "HE'S SIGNING. 1815 01:32:57:27 --:--:--:-- I'M VOICING, AND MY VOICE ISN'T VERY GOOD." 1816 01:33:00:19 --:--:--:-- I'LL SAY, "MY VOICE ISN'T VERY GOOD, 1817 01:33:02:19 --:--:--:-- AND THAT'S THE POINT OF IT." 1818 01:33:04:02 --:--:--:-- IT'S CALLED "I AM ORDERED NOW TO TALK." 1819 01:33:07:02 --:--:--:-- AND I JUST TALKED AND TALKED MY WAY THROUGH IT. 1820 01:33:09:13 --:--:--:-- AND I REALLY ENJOYED IT. IT WAS LIKE SIGNING. 1821 01:33:11:15 --:--:--:-- IT WAS TALKING. 1822 01:33:13:02 --:--:--:-- IT WAS SO MUCH FUN BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT TO TALK. 1823 01:33:15:28 --:--:--:-- IT WAS MORE LIKE I WAS PLAYING. 1824 01:33:17:14 --:--:--:-- I WAS JUST PLAYING, LETTING IT COME OUT THROUGH MY VOICE. 1825 01:33:20:15 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, ALL THOSE YEARS OF BEING ADMONISHED FOR NOT 1826 01:33:24:06 --:--:--:-- SAYING ANYTHING THE RIGHT WAY. I HAD TO THINK ABOUT WHERE MY 1827 01:33:27:05 --:--:--:-- HARD PALATE IS, WHERE MY SOFT PALATE IS. 1828 01:33:30:15 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW HOW DO YOU MAKE A "B"? 1829 01:33:32:19 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU MAKE A VOWEL? 1830 01:33:34:00 --:--:--:-- WHERE DO YOU PUT YOUR TONGUE, AND ALL THIS KIND OF CRAP? 1831 01:33:36:13 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, THE SCIENCE OF IT, THE MATH OF IT, WHATEVER. 1832 01:33:39:15 --:--:--:-- IT'S SO OPPRESSIVE. 1833 01:33:41:00 --:--:--:-- AND I JUST THOUGHT, "YOU KNOW, WHAT THE FUCK. 1834 01:33:43:00 --:--:--:-- "I JUST WANT TO ENJOY IT, LAUGHING, CRYING, 1835 01:33:45:15 --:--:--:-- LETTING IT OUT, SHOUTING." 1836 01:33:47:00 --:--:--:-- ALL THE THINGS YOU DO. IT'S BEAUTIFUL. 1837 01:33:49:00 --:--:--:-- I WAS IN THE CORNER JUST YELLING OR SOMETHING, 1838 01:33:51:21 --:--:--:-- JUST GETTING IT OUT AND IT'S RIGHT THERE. 1839 01:33:53:24 --:--:--:-- AND I DIDN'T CARE WHAT IT SOUNDED LIKE. 1840 01:33:55:24 --:--:--:-- I JUST TALKED, AND KENNY WAS SIGNING AWAY IN HIS AWKWARD 1841 01:34:00:15 --:--:--:-- KIND OF KENNY SIGNING WAY. 1842 01:34:02:21 --:--:--:-- AND THE DEAF AUDIENCE SAW THIS, AND I REMEMBER PATRICK GRAYBILL 1843 01:34:07:02 --:--:--:-- WAS LOOKING UP AND GOING, "HUH?" 1844 01:34:09:20 --:--:--:-- BUT THE HEARING PEOPLE REALLY TOOK IT TO HEART AND GOT 1845 01:34:12:07 --:--:--:-- SO MUCH MORE OUT OF IT, AND THAT REALLY HIT ME THAT 1846 01:34:15:20 --:--:--:-- THE HEARING PEOPLE WERE GETTING MORE OUT OF IT THAN 1847 01:34:18:00 --:--:--:-- THE DEAF PEOPLE. 1848 01:34:19:14 --:--:--:-- THERE'S THE IRONY, I THINK. 1849 01:34:21:07 --:--:--:-- IT'S THE MOST POLITICAL STRONG-AGAINST-ORALISM THING 1850 01:34:24:16 --:--:--:-- THAT I CAN THINK OF. 1851 01:34:26:04 01:34:29:00 AND THE WAY TO MAKE THAT CASE WAS BY SPEAKING. 1852 01:34:34:25 --:--:--:-- RIGHT, AND IT'S IRONIC THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY DOCUMENT 1853 01:34:39:09 --:--:--:-- THIS OR WHEN THEY VIDEORECORD IT OR WHEN THEY STUDY IT, 1854 01:34:42:25 --:--:--:-- WHO'S GONNA USE IT? 1855 01:34:46:10 --:--:--:-- IS IT GONNA BE THE SIGNERS OR HOW IS IT GONNA BE USED? 1856 01:34:49:15 01:34:51:24 THAT'S REALLY SORT OF IRONIC. 1857 01:34:53:15 --:--:--:-- NOW THAT'S THE WAY THAT IT WAS, 1858 01:34:56:17 --:--:--:-- BUT IT HASN'T SO MUCH ANYMORE. 1859 01:34:58:15 --:--:--:-- NOW IT'S MORE ABOUT CULTURE. 1860 01:35:01:15 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, TODAY, YOU KNOW, IT'S MORE 1861 01:35:05:00 --:--:--:-- CONTROVERSIAL THAN IT WAS BACK THEN. 1862 01:35:07:00 01:35:09:00 YOU KNOW, IMPLANTS... 1863 01:35:10:15 --:--:--:-- AND I DON'T DO MORE ABOUT LITTLE "d" ISSUES, 1864 01:35:14:00 --:--:--:-- MORE ABOUT BIG "D" DEAF ISSUES. 1865 01:35:16:00 --:--:--:-- I WANT TO RESPECT THE CULTURE. 1866 01:35:19:00 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT TO STOP THAT. 1867 01:35:21:15 --:--:--:-- IT'S BEEN OVER 10 YEARS NOW. 1868 01:35:23:09 --:--:--:-- RECENTLY, NO. NO, NO, THAT'S FINE. 1869 01:35:26:03 --:--:--:-- RECENTLY IN BOSTON, I DID A PERFORMANCE, A ONE-MAN SHOW, 1870 01:35:32:00 --:--:--:-- WHERE I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE HISTORY OF DEAF PEOPLE 1871 01:35:34:00 --:--:--:-- AND DEAFNESS, 1872 01:35:35:10 --:--:--:-- AND I WASN'T USING ANY SIGN LANGUAGE. 1873 01:35:36:27 01:35:39:00 I WAS DOING IT ALL VISUALLY. 1874 01:35:42:15 --:--:--:-- WE OPENED UP THE SHOW...AND THEN I HAD AN OVERHEAD THERE 1875 01:35:47:15 --:--:--:-- WITH SOME OF THE WORDS. 1876 01:35:50:00 --:--:--:-- AND I WENT TO THE AUDIENCE WITH A SIGN THAT SAID 1877 01:35:52:15 --:--:--:-- "HEARING VOLUNTEER, PLEASE," ON A SIGN, 1878 01:35:55:00 --:--:--:-- AND A PERSON WOULD COME UP. 1879 01:35:57:15 --:--:--:-- AND ON THE OVERHEAD, I WOULD COMMUNICATE WITH THEM. 1880 01:35:59:00 --:--:--:-- AND I'D SAY, "WHAT'S YOUR NAME?" 1881 01:36:00:15 --:--:--:-- AND I'D GO BACK AND FORTH TALKING TO THEM THIS WAY, 1882 01:36:02:15 --:--:--:-- AND I SAID "WOULD YOU HELP ME? 1883 01:36:05:15 --:--:--:-- "NOW LISTEN. 1884 01:36:08:00 01:36:09:10 READY?" 1885 01:36:12:15 --:--:--:-- I SAID I HAVE ANOTHER SIGN SAYING, "I NEED AN INTERPRETER." 1886 01:36:15:15 --:--:--:-- AND I'D CALL SOMEBODY UP. 1887 01:36:18:15 --:--:--:-- THEY'D SAY I'D HAVE THE MICROPHONE, AND I'D START 1888 01:36:20:23 --:--:--:-- SPEAKING AWAY INTO THE MICROPHONE, AND THE INTERPRETER 1889 01:36:22:20 --:--:--:-- WOULD BE LIKE, "I--UH--UM..." 1890 01:36:24:20 --:--:--:-- AND JUST DOING IT COLD. 1891 01:36:26:09 --:--:--:-- AND THE OTHER PERSON IS POINTING TO SOMEWHERE IN THERE 1892 01:36:28:17 --:--:--:-- GOING...AND I'M JUST TALKING AWAY. 1893 01:36:31:05 --:--:--:-- AT THE END OF IT, I EXPOSE IT, AND IT SAYS, "ORALISM WORKS." 1894 01:36:36:15 --:--:--:-- NO, NO, NO, NO, NO. 1895 01:36:37:27 --:--:--:-- "ORAL POWER." THAT'S WHAT IT WAS ON THE SHIRT. 1896 01:36:40:11 01:36:42:08 I SAID, "ORAL POWER." 1897 01:36:48:00 --:--:--:-- THE 1880s, WHERE THE DEAF SCHOOLS POPULATION STARTED 1898 01:36:52:15 --:--:--:-- BEING IMPACTED. 1899 01:36:54:17 --:--:--:-- SO WHEN I TOOK THAT SHIRT OFF, AND I SAID, "THESE ARE 1900 01:36:57:05 --:--:--:-- THE DARK AGES." 1901 01:36:59:05 --:--:--:-- AND THEN I HAD ANOTHER SHIRT, 1902 01:37:01:07 --:--:--:-- AND I DO "JABBERWOCKY." 1903 01:37:03:04 --:--:--:-- I MEAN, THAT KIND OF STUFF WORKED FOR ME 1904 01:37:04:22 --:--:--:-- BECAUSE PEOPLE WOULD BE LIKE, "WHOA, YES, RIGHT, 1905 01:37:07:26 --:--:--:-- YEAH, YEAH." 1906 01:37:10:02 --:--:--:-- SO THAT WAS IN BOSTON, 2 YEARS AGO, I THINK. 1907 01:37:13:18 --:--:--:-- THEY HAVE A VIDEO OF IT, 1908 01:37:15:00 --:--:--:-- AND I'VE TRIED TO GET A COPY OF IT. 1909 01:37:16:18 --:--:--:-- I KNOW THEY HAVE IT. MAYBE YOU CAN GET IT. 1910 01:37:18:22 01:37:22:01 YOU KNOW, I'D LOVE TO HAVE A COPY OF IT. 1911 01:37:38:15 --:--:--:-- BUT SOMETIMES, IT'S SOMETHING PEOPLE DON'T LIKE TO TALK ABOUT, 1912 01:37:42:00 --:--:--:-- BUT AT LEAST WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT. 1913 01:37:43:27 --:--:--:-- IT'S NOT WHETHER OR NOT YOU SUPPORT IT, YES OR NO. 1914 01:37:46:12 01:37:48:07 IT'S MY OPINION. 1915 01:37:54:15 --:--:--:-- OK. LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE OF A HAND SHAPE RHYME-- 1916 01:37:59:15 --:--:--:-- OK, ONE HAND SHAPE THAT CONTINUES THROUGHOUT THE POEM. 1917 01:38:03:25 --:--:--:-- PAINTING BECOMES A BIRD, THE BIRD FLIES UP TO THE SUN 1918 01:38:10:07 --:--:--:-- AND THEN BECOMES A BUTTERFLY ON THE HAT OF SOMEONE WHO 1919 01:38:14:19 --:--:--:-- SWATS IT AWAY. 1920 01:38:17:00 --:--:--:-- THE PAINTBRUSH AGAIN MAKES A TREE WITH A LEAF THAT FALLS 1921 01:38:20:04 --:--:--:-- AND BECOMES A WATERFALL. 1922 01:38:22:27 --:--:--:-- SO YOU SEE, THE SAME HAND SHAPE, THE FIVE HAND SHAPE, 1923 01:38:26:28 --:--:--:-- YOU CAN GO BACK AND FORTH. 1924 01:38:28:07 --:--:--:-- SO IF YOU GIVE ME A HAND SHAPE, LIKE THE LETTER "F"... 1925 01:38:31:15 --:--:--:-- ANOTHER HAND SHAPE. "S," LETTER "S." 1926 01:38:34:15 --:--:--:-- OK, "F" AND "S." 1927 01:38:36:00 --:--:--:-- SO THEN GIVE ME A THEME. 1928 01:38:38:17 --:--:--:-- CLOUDS? OK. 1929 01:38:40:15 01:38:45:00 "S," "F." "S," "F." OK, LET ME SEE. 1930 01:38:49:00 --:--:--:-- SOME FLIES FLYING AROUND. 1931 01:38:51:15 --:--:--:-- THEY FORM A CLOUD. 1932 01:38:54:19 --:--:--:-- RAINDROPS FALL. 1933 01:38:57:00 --:--:--:-- THEY HIT A PERSON, 1934 01:38:59:00 --:--:--:-- WHO ENDS UP LOOKING AT THE SKY. 1935 01:39:01:15 --:--:--:-- HE COVERS HIMSELF WITH THE COAT AND THEN WALKS AWAY. 1936 01:39:05:13 --:--:--:-- SEE? SO YOU CAN PLAY WITH THAT. 1937 01:39:07:00 01:39:10:15 YOU MAKE A THEME AND USE TWO HAND SHAPES AND USE THEM BACK AND FORTH. 1938 01:39:21:00 --:--:--:-- A MOVIE. 1939 01:39:22:15 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE CAMERA OR THEY HAVE 1940 01:39:28:20 --:--:--:-- MULTIPLE CAMERAS, MAYBE 3 CAMERAS, AND THEY GO BACK AND FORTH, 1941 01:39:31:28 --:--:--:-- LIKE IN "THE GODFATHER." 1942 01:39:33:15 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, I LOVE THE WAY THEY USE THEIR CAMERAWORK. 1943 01:39:37:00 --:--:--:-- YOU KNOW, MAYBE USE LIKE A ROCKET, OK, 1944 01:39:39:00 01:39:40:15 AS AN EXAMPLE. 1945 01:39:57:15 01:40:01:00 SEE HOW YOU GO BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN THE CAMERA ANGLE? 1946 01:40:07:00 --:--:--:-- POETRY. 1947 01:40:08:23 --:--:--:-- LET'S SEE...WHAT IS POETRY? 1948 01:40:11:26 --:--:--:-- LIKE I WAS TELLING KENNY LAST NIGHT, WE WERE ON THE PHONE, 1949 01:40:15:23 --:--:--:-- AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT POETRY. 1950 01:40:17:22 --:--:--:-- AND IT'S LIKE GIVING BIRTH. 1951 01:40:19:11 --:--:--:-- YOU HAVE SOMETHING IN YOUR HEAD, AND IT'S JUST GROWING 1952 01:40:23:01 --:--:--:-- AND TRYING TO GET OUT AND ESCAPE. 1953 01:40:25:19 --:--:--:-- OR LIKE A VENUS FLY TRAP THAT CATCHES SOMETHING, AND THEN IT 1954 01:40:29:11 --:--:--:-- GROWS AND TRIES TO COME OUT, OR IT'S LIKE THE STARS 1955 01:40:33:02 --:--:--:-- AND THE MOON, YOU KNOW, ALL OF CREATION AND THEN FINALLY 1956 01:40:36:12 --:--:--:-- THERE'S A BABY THERE SCREAMING AND IT GROWS ALL OUT, AND IT 1957 01:40:40:13 --:--:--:-- BECOMES INSIDE YOU AS A HEARTBEAT AND UNDERSTANDING, 1958 01:40:43:17 01:40:46:00 AND THAT'S WHAT POETRY IS! 1959 01:40:48:15 --:--:--:-- I DON'T KNOW. HOW THE FUCK DO I KNOW? 1960 01:40:50:27 --:--:--:-- GOOD QUESTION. 1961 01:40:52:04 --:--:--:-- IT'S POETRY! PERIOD! 1962 01:40:55:15 --:--:--:-- POETRY IS HERE, IT'S THERE, IT'S EVERYWHERE. 1963 01:40:58:15 --:--:--:-- IT'S THIS CHAIR. IT'S THAT BUILDING. 1964 01:41:00:15 --:--:--:-- IT'S MY HEART, IT'S LOVE, IT'S BLOOD, IT'S SWEAT, 1965 01:41:03:26 --:--:--:-- IT'S EVERYTHING, IT'S LANGUAGE, IT'S EATING, IT'S EVERYTHING. 1966 01:41:07:15 --:--:--:-- IT'S POETRY! 1967 01:41:09:00 01:41:12:18 IT'S LIFE, IT'S SHARING, IT'S EVERYTHING. 1968 01:41:20:07 01:41:22:10 AND NOW IT'S YOUR TURN. 1969 01:41:23:15 01:41:25:15 IT IS YOUR TURN.

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Notes:

"This project is supported by a Digitizing Hidden Collections grant from the Council on Library and Information Resources (CLIR). The grant program is made possible by funding from the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation."

notes

"This project is supported by a Digitizing Hidden Collections grant from the Council on Library and Information Resources (CLIR). The grant program is made possible by funding from the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation."

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Notes:

Title supplied by cataloger

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Title supplied by cataloger

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Other Title:

Heart of the hydrogen jukebox

other_title

Heart of the hydrogen jukebox

Other Title

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MEDIA INFORMATION

Interview