ds_0027_bragginterview_cap_01.mp4

ds_0027_bragginterview_cap_01.mp4

Interview

Bragg, Bernard, 1928-2018

Bragg, Bernard, 1928-2018 Interviews

National Theatre of the Deaf History

American Sign Language literature

Deaf, Writings of the, American

Deaf, Theater for the

Deaf Poetry

ASL poetry

Part of a collection of interviews made for a film on ASL poetry, "The Heart of the Hydrogen Jukebox." In this interview, Deaf poet, actor, and playwright Bernard Bragg discusses his long career. Bragg, asked to define poetry said "Poetry is like trying to capture the wind, but once it is caught, it is no longer the wind." He discusses poetry in his life and the influence of Dr. Robert Panara, the first Deaf teacher he met at the Fanwood School for the Deaf, and his Deaf father, an artistic signer who often performed at Deaf clubs. Their influence led him to write his own poetry. Dr. Robert Panara helped him to understand the English plays and poetry which he would act out and translate into sign. He also discusses the National Theatre of the Deaf (NTD- he was one of the co-founders) and Dorothy Miles's work in poetry which was unique as she incorporated both English and ASL which was understandable in both languages. He encouraged her to join the NTD. They worked together on Under Milk Wood by Dylan Thomas which was presented as a play. He credits Dorothy Miles with starting ABC stories in the late 1960s which had never been done before. Bragg shares Beluggi's and Stokoe's research about ASL. He had a hard time accepting it as a language at first because of the emphasis on learning English to interact with the hearing world. He realized that it is a language in its own right, which he had been using to express himself artistically. At the NTD, he did some translation work from English to sign language and Dorothy Miles assisted him in looking at the beauty of sign language as well as English. Bragg also talks about his performance that he will do that night, 'Theatre in the Sky'. He wrote a song for they 'eye', not the 'ear', using just signs. That was the first time he wrote a song in sign format, with no words. He talks about the 'Flying Song' in which he incorporates visual rhyme signs for countries, states, and cities. Visual vernacular is a method Bragg developed after studying with Marcel Marceau. This method uses filming editing techniques using signs to show close-ups, zooming, and different shots which is like watching a movie. Stokoe noted this and Dirksen Bauman discussed this further in analyzing poetical works. At the NTD where he worked for over 30 years, he taught some of the emerging poets such as Peter Cook, Clayton Valli, Patrick Graybill, and Ella Mae Lentz. Dr. Robert Panara is not considered an ASL poet like Valli, Cook, and Lentz. Panara did sign transliterations of English poems. Deaf people from hearing and Deaf families produce work that are different in Bragg's opinion. He discusses political poetry that Lentz did about oppression of ASL, and the variety of themes one can explore in ASL poetry. Bragg is puzzled as to why there is not more ASL literature and poetry. He wonders whether Deaf students are being exposed to these works through videotapes, and encouraging them to explore ASL creative expression.

National Technical Institute for the Deaf

Rochester Institute of Technology - RIT Libraries - RIT Archive Collections

Lerner, Miriam Nathan

2007

2018

moving image

mp4

DVD

88 minutes

American Sign Language

English

RITDSA.0027

Sculptures in the Air: An Accessible Online Video Repository of the American Sign Language (ASL) Poetry and Literature Collections

Miriam and Kenneth Lerner ASL Literature Collection

2018-2019 CLIR Grant-ASL Poetry and Literature

https://albert.rit.…

https://archivesspa…

New York - Rochester

Henrietta Campus

RIT Libraries makes materials from its collections available for educational and research purposes pursuant to U.S. Copyright Law. You are free to use this Item in any way that is permitted by the copyright and related rights legislation that applies to your use. It is your responsibility to obtain permission from the copyright holder to publish or reproduce images in print or electronic form.

CC BY-NC-ND: Attribution NonCommercial NoDerivatives 4.0 International

POETRY. HUH.

POETRY IS LIKE--

I REMEMBER A QUOTE
I READ SOMEWHERE A WHILE AGO.

IT SAID, "POETRY IS LIKE
TRYING TO CATCH THE WIND.

ONCE IT'S CAUGHT,
IT'S NO LONGER THE WIND."

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S
A GOOD DEFINITION,

BUT IT SEEMS LIKE
A TOUGH THING TO EXPLAIN.

IT'S KIND OF A WAY
OF EXPRESSING ONE'S SELF,

BUT THE WAY THAT EXPRESSION
IS PUT FORTH IS VERY CONDENSED.

A NOVEL IS A VERY LONG,
DRAWN-OUT WAY

OF SHOWING A STORY,
BUT POETRY IS A SHORTER FORM...

BUT, AGAIN, I WOULD SAY
IT'S LIKE TRYING

TO CAPTURE THE WIND,
AND ONCE IT'S CAUGHT,

IT'S NO LONGER THE WIND.

IT'S LIKE--

I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S--
YOU WOULD DESCRIBE IT

LIKE A BLIND PERSON, TRYING
TO DESCRIBE COLOR TO THEM

OR AN ARTIST, HOW DO
THEY DESCRIBE THEIR OWN WORK.

I'VE WRITTEN POETRY,
BUT CAN I DESCRIBE MY OWN WORK?

IT'S MAYBE FROM DEEP WITHIN,

PERSONAL THOUGHTS
AND EXPRESSION.

I WRITE FOR MYSELF FIRST,

AND THEN I LET OTHER PEOPLE READ
AND SHARE IN IT.

"SHARING," THAT'S A GOOD WORD.

MAYBE THAT'S THE KEY
OF EVERYTHING,

SHARING YOUR THOUGHTS
AND FEELINGS IN A DIFFERENT WAY

SO THAT IT IMPACTS YOUR READER.

WHEN I HAD MY VERY FIRST
DEAF TEACHER--

NAMED BOB PANERA,
ROBERT F. PANERA--

HE WAS REALLY THE FIRST
DEAF TEACHER I HAD IN SCHOOL.

I WAS 16 YEARS OLD.
I HAD READ POETRY.

NO. NOW WAIT.

I REMEMBER I STARTED
READING POETRY.

I HAD A LARGE ANTHOLOGY
FROM THE LIBRARY,

"AMERICAN LITERATURE,"
AND I DID READ SOME POETRY

IN THAT BOOK, AND I LIKED IT.

THAT WAS WHEN I WAS 13
OR 14 YEARS OLD.

NO ONE REALLY SHOWED ME
OR TAUGHT ME

OR SHOWED ME HOW TO SIGN IT.

I JUST READ IT AND ENJOYED IT
FOR THE WORDS THEMSELVES.

IT WASN'T UNTIL I HAD BOB
AS A TEACHER

AND HE JOINED THE FACULTY.

HE WAS FRESH OUT OF GALLAUDET
HIMSELF, BRAND-NEW TEACHER,

AND WE WERE HIS FIRST STUDENTS,
AND I WAS SO EAGER

AND ENJOYED HIS CLASSES.

HE TAUGHT US POETRY AND ACTING,
SO MAYBE--

DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION?

OH, YES, FROM FAMILY.

WELL, MY FATHER WAS AN ACTOR,

AND HE WAS VERY POETIC HIMSELF.

HE WROTE POETRY.

I DIDN'T READ IT BECAUSE
MY MOTHER HAD DESTROYED

ALL HIS WORK, HIS POETIC WORK,
WHEN THEY SEPARATED.

I WAS ABOUT 1 1/2
OR TWO YEARS OLD.

SHE GOT VERY ANGRY AND DESTROYED
ALL THE POETRY

HE HAD WRITTEN FOR HER
WHEN THEY WERE COURTING.

I WAS SO UPSET WHEN I HEARD
THAT HAD HAPPENED,

BUT WHEN I HEARD
MY FATHER WROTE POETRY...

I HAD NOTICED THAT HE WAS
VERY POETIC IN HIS EXPRESSION.

WHEN HE SIGNED,
HE WAS SUCH A GOOD SIGNER,

AND LET ME SHOW YOU AN EXAMPLE
OF SOMETHING HE DID.

HE MIGHT TALK ABOUT WALKING
THROUGH THE FOREST,

AND HE LOOKS OVER AT A BROOK
THAT'S TUMBLING OVER ROCKS,

AND THE TREES ARE OVERHEAD,
AND A BEAUTIFUL, BLUE SKY

AND BUTTERFLIES.

IT WAS LIKE THAT,
OR ANOTHER EXAMPLE,

HE MIGHT TALK ABOUT THE WATER
TUMBLING OVER THE LARGER ROCKS

AND ALMOST LIKE IT WAS FLOWING
OVER A MAN'S SHOULDERS,

OR HE'D TALK ABOUT THE WATER
FLOWING OVER SMALLER ROCKS,

AND IT LOOKED LIKE A WOMAN
WASHING HER HANDS.

NO, NOT IN REGULAR CONVERSATION,
BUT WHEN HE TOLD A STORY,

IT WAS A VERY POETIC WAY.

HE DIDN'T PAY ATTENTION
TO RULES OR GRAMMAR.

IT WAS THE MOVEMENT OF HIS HANDS
AND HIS FACIAL EXPRESSION.

EVERYTHING WAS THERE.

IT WAS VERY POETIC
IN AND OF ITSELF.

YES. I THINK HE DID HAVE
SOME INFLUENCE ON ME.

I REALLY GIVE HIM CREDIT
FOR THAT.

I REALLY ENJOYED WATCHING
THE MOVEMENT OF HIS HANDS

AND THE SHAPES OF HIS SIGNS.

OH, YES. I BELIEVE
THAT WAS AN INFLUENCE

AND ALSO THAT BOB PANERA
REALLY TAUGHT ME

THE ESSENCE OF ENGLISH.

IT WOULD BECOME
MUCH MORE MEANINGFUL

WHEN I LEARNED ABOUT IT.

I WOULD WATCH HIM
ACTING OUT A POEM,

LIKE CYRANO DE BERGERAC--

HIS FAMOUS, LONG SPEECH
ABOUT HIS NOSE--

OR HAMLET.

HE WOULD SIGN "MACBETH"
AND THE SOLILOQUYS.

LET ME THINK.

HE DID SHELLEY, WADSWORTH,

SO MANY DIFFERENT POETS,
WHITMAN...

SO MANY.

I REALLY APPRECIATED THAT.
I LEARNED HOW TO SIGN.

I COPIED HOW HE SIGNED
ALL THESE POEMS,

AND I LEARNED THE POETRY
THIS WAY.

I WAS ABOUT 13 YEARS OLD
WHEN I PERFORMED A POEM

BY A TEST PILOT
CALLED JOHN COLLINS.

HE HAD WRITTEN A POEM
BEFORE HE DIED.

HE WAS A TEST PILOT
FOR A BOMBER,

AND AFTER HE WAS KILLED
IN A CRASH,

HIS WIFE FOUND THIS POEM
THAT HE HAD WRITTEN

PORTENDING HIS OWN DEATH.

IT WAS VERY POWERFUL.

IT WAS AS IF HE HAD PREDICTED
THAT THIS WAS THE WAY

THAT HE WOULD ACTUALLY DIE.

HE TALKED ABOUT HOW HE DIED.

I SIGNED ALL THESE
WRITTEN WORDS.

I SIGNED IT IN FRONT
OF ABOUT 400 DEAF PEOPLE

AT THE DEAF CLUB ONE NIGHT.

MY FATHER WAS SUPPOSED
TO BE THE HEADLINER,

BUT HE SUDDENLY BECAME ILL,

AND I HAD TO REPLACE HIM
THAT NIGHT,

SO I MEMORIZED
THIS VERY LONG POEM,

AND I SIGNED IT
IN FRONT OF THE AUDIENCE.

I JUST LOVE POETRY SO MUCH,
I HAD THIS CRAVING

FOR POETRY AND PERFORMANCE
FROM A VERY YOUNG AGE.

I HAD GOTTEN THAT SOMEWHAT
FROM MY FATHER.

HE HAD THAT POETIC SORT
OF EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT

AND WRITING AND SIGNING
THAT HE PASSED ON TO ME.

HE WAS A BIG INFLUENCE ON ME...

BUT I HAVE TO SAY
THAT BOB PANERA WAS THE ONE

WHO INGRAINED THE ENGLISH
INFLUENCE IN ME,

SO I HAD THE SIGN INFLUENCE
FROM MY DAD

AND ENGLISH FROM BOB PANERA,
AND I FEEL

THAT IT IS THE COMBINATION
OF THOSE TWO

THAT HAS MADE ME WHO I AM.

THE FIRST TWO YEARS,
OH, YES. YES.

NO, NOT REALLY.
IT WAS ALL TOGETHER.

IT WAS WHILE I WAS GROWING UP.

THE FIRST TIME
THAT I ACTUALLY WROTE A POEM,

I WAS IN COLLEGE.

OH, YES. THIS IS INTERESTING.

WHEN BOB PANERA
JOINED THE FACULTY IN MY SCHOOL,

ABOUT 3 MONTHS LATER,
THEY CALLED AN ASSEMBLY

TO GO INTO THE CHAPEL.

EVERYBODY WAS SITTING THERE
IN THE AUDIENCE.

WE REALLY DID NOT KNOW
WHAT IT WAS FOR,

AND THEY MADE
AN ANNOUNCEMENT THAT BOB

HAD WON THIS AWARD AND A MEDAL.

IT WAS AN AWARD
FOR CREATIVE POETRY,

AND THAT WAS FROM GALLAUDET,
WHO HAD ESTABLISHED THIS AWARD.

THEY HAD NOT NECESSARILY
PUBLICIZED

WHO THE RECIPIENT WAS.

THEY WANTED TO WAIT.

THEY SENT IT TO THE SCHOOL,
AND THEY WANTED TO PRESENT IT

AND MAKE A BIG ANNOUNCEMENT
IN FRONT OF OUR WHOLE ASSEMBLY

THAT HE HAD RECEIVED THIS.

BOB WAS SHOCKED.

HE CAME UP ON STAGE,
AND HE RECEIVED THIS MEDAL.

LATER, I WENT TO HIS CLASSROOM
BECAUSE I REALLY WANTED

TO SEE THE MEDAL,
AND HE SHOWED IT TO ME.

I LOOKED UP AT HIM,
AND I LOOKED AT THE MEDAL,

AND THERE WAS AN INSCRIPTION
ON THE BACK,

AND IT SAID, "CREATIVE POETRY,"
AND SOME OTHER THINGS

ON THE INSCRIPTION,
AND I ASKED HIM,

"DO YOU THINK
I CAN WRITE POETRY, AS WELL?"

AND HE SAID, "WHY NOT?

GO AHEAD AND TRY IT.
GO AHEAD AND WRITE."

I SAID, "BUT THE WORDS,
THE SOUNDS,

HOW AM I GOING TO BE ABLE
TO DO THAT?"

"WELL," HE SAID, "GET YOURSELF
A RHYMING DICTIONARY,"

AND THAT IS HOW I BECAME
MORE AND MORE INVOLVED

IN THE WHOLE PROCESS,
BECAUSE I WOULD READ

HOW THE WORDS WOULD RHYME,
AND I WOULD FIGURE OUT

HOW TO PUT THEM
IN A POETIC FORMAT,

AND THAT'S WHEN
I STARTED WRITING.

I DIDN'T REALLY GET MORE INTO IT
TILL I WENT INTO COLLEGE.

THAT IS WHEN IT REALLY TOOK OFF,
AND THEN I WROTE

SOME POEMS THAT WERE PRINTED

IN THE AMERICAN COLLEGE
POETIC COMPETITION VOLUME,

AND I GOT IN ONCE,
TWICE, 3 TIMES.

I KEPT GETTING MORE PUBLISHED,
AND I HAVE POEMS

THAT I WROTE BACK THEN IN MY
BIOGRAPHY "SOUNDS OF SILENCE."

IN MY SENIOR YEAR,
BOB, WHO WAS AT GALLAUDET,

ANNOUNCED THE WINNER,
AND IT WAS MYSELF.

I RECEIVED THE SAME MEDAL
THAT HE HAD RECEIVED EARLIER.

IT MADE ME REALLY PROUD,
AND IT MEANT REALLY A LOT TO ME.

OH, YES.
STORYTELLING IS DIFFERENT.

IT'S DIFFERENT.

I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND
YOUR QUESTION.

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN ASL STORYTELLING

AND ASL POETRY?

THEY'RE SIMILAR

YET DIFFERENT, OF COURSE,

BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE
SPEAKING ENGLISH

AND TELLING A STORY IN ENGLISH
OR WRITTEN POETRY IS IN ENGLISH,

THAT'S SIMILAR,

BUT IT'S DIFFERENT
THAN EXPRESSING IT IN ASL

OR ASL POETRY.

IT'S KIND OF A LONG WAY.

IT'S A NOVEL,
I WOULD CALL A NARRATIVE,

AND A POETRY
IS A MORE CONDENSED VERSION.

MAYBE I DON'T UNDERSTAND
YOUR QUESTION.

OH, YES.

WHEN THAT STARTED,

THE NATIONAL THEATRE
OF THE DEAF,

YES. DOROTHY MILES
WAS INVOLVED IN ITS INCEPTION,

AND SHE PLAYED A LOT
WITH POETIC SIGNING.

WE WORKED TOGETHER A LOT.
WE COLLABORATED TOGETHER.

THE TWO OF US WOULD
INVENT SIGNS

FOR THE PLAYS
THAT WE WERE STAGING

FOR THE NATIONAL THEATRE
OF THE DEAF.

LET ME SEE.

WHAT WAS THE TITLE
OF THE BIG ONE WE DID?

"UNDER MILK WOOD."

WE TOOK "UNDER MILK WOOD,"
BY DYLAN THOMAS,

AND WE CHANGED IT
TO "SONGS OF MILK WOOD."

WE WOULD MAKE THIS BEAUTIFUL
LANGUAGE BY DYLAN THOMAS--

IT WAS VERY FLOWERY
AND QUITE LOVELY,

AND WE WERE TRANSLATING IT
INTO SIGN LANGUAGE

AND TRYING TO MAKE IT
EQUIVALENT,

AND THEN WE PRESENTED IT
AS A PLAY.

IT WAS VERY SUCCESSFUL.

LET ME SEE.

DID YOU ASK ME ABOUT, YES,
ABC STORIES, WHEN THEY BEGAN?

WELL, DOROTHY GAVE A WORKSHOP
ABOUT ABC STORIES AT THE TIME,

AND THAT STARTED A TREND
THAT CONTINUES TILL THIS DAY.

NOBODY HAD REALLY PLAYED
WITH THAT BEFORE,

SO I'M HERE TO TELL YOU
THAT DOROTHY MILES

IS THE ONE WHO STARTED THAT.

NO. NO, NO, NO.

IT HAD NOT BEEN AROUND
BEFORE THE SIXTIES.

I MEAN, WE FOUNDED

THE NATIONAL THEATRE
FOR THE DEAF IN '66, '67, '68.

YES. RIGHT AROUND THERE
IS WHEN DOROTHY JOINED,

SO I'D SAY '68, '69 IS WHEN
THESE ABC STORIES

KIND OF HIT TOWN,
AND FROM THAT TIME FORWARD,

THEY REALLY TOOK OFF,
BUT NOT BEFORE THAT.

I MEAN, IF SOMEONE
WANTS TO PROVE ME WRONG,

THAT'S FINE,
BUT TO MY KNOWLEDGE,

SHE WAS THE ONE
THAT STARTED THAT FAD.

NO. IT BEGAN IN THE SIXTIES
AND CONTINUED AFTER THAT POINT.

WELL, REALLY, THE TWO OF US
WERE VERY GOOD FRIENDS.

WE WERE FRIENDS
BEFORE WE'D EVEN MET, ACTUALLY,

BECAUSE I'D BEEN READING
HER POETRY FOR A WHILE

BEFORE I MET HER IN PERSON.

YOU KNOW, IT WAS IN
THE GALLAUDET LIT. REVIEW.

I WAS SO COMPELLED
WITH THE WAY SHE WROTE,

AND SHE HAD SEEN MY WORK
IN THEATER,

AND SHE HAD SEEN
HOW I PERFORMED.

WE FINALLY MET IN PERSON.

THEN I SAID, "COME ON.
COME JOIN NTD,"

AND SHE WAS THRILLED TO DO SO.

SHE HAD ALWAYS WANTED TO.

SHE WAS QUITE EXCITED
AND DID JOIN.

IT ESTABLISHED A FRIENDSHIP
THAT'S LASTED A LONG TIME

BETWEEN US.

I ASKED HER, "HAVE YOU
CONSIDERED WRITING SOME POEMS

WITH SIGN LANGUAGE IN MIND
AT THE SAME TIME?"

SHE SAID, "WELL, THAT WOULD BE
AN INTERESTING THING TO TRY,"

AND THAT IS WHAT SHE DID
FROM THEN ON.

SHE WOULD WRITE POEMS
THINKING OF THE SIGNING

SHE WOULD USE
AS SHE COMPOSED THE POEMS,

SO I FEEL THAT MAYBE I HAD
AN INFLUENCE ON HER

FOR HAVING HER ATTEMPT THAT,
AND SHE CREATED

QUITE A LEGACY OF POETRY
AFTER THAT.

BECAUSE WE WERE WORKING TOGETHER
AT THAT TIME

AND WE HAD STARTED
WITH THIS DYLAN THOMAS PROJECT

THAT I MENTIONED BEFORE,
"UNDER MILK WOOD,"

AND SO THAT PROCESS OF LOOKING
AT THE LANGUAGE,

THE WRITTEN LANGUAGE,
AND THEN TRANSLATING THAT

INTO SIGN, I THINK
THAT SHE WAS INSPIRED BY THAT,

AND THEN AS SHE STARTED
WRITING MORE AND MORE,

SHE KEPT SIGN LANGUAGE
IN MIND CONSTANTLY

AS SHE WROTE THE ENGLISH,
IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

I THINK THAT HAD
A GREAT INFLUENCE ON HER.

YES. I SEE PARALLELS BETWEEN
DOT MILES AND SYLVIA PLATH.

THEY BOTH HAD DEEP GRIEF
THAT THEY WERE EXPRESSING

WITH THEIR WRITING.

YEAH, SO A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT
THAT SHE COMMITTED SUICIDE.

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT.

I THINK IT WAS AN ACCIDENT.

SHE FELL FROM THE SECOND STORY.
IT WAS A SMALL FALL.

REALLY, YOU DON'T TRY
AND KILL YOURSELF

FROM JUMPING FROM THE SECOND
OR THIRD STORY.

YOU GO UP TO THE 12th OR 13th.

I DON'T KNOW
IF SHE HAD FORGOTTEN

TO TAKE HER MEDICINE THAT DAY.

IT WAS A VERY UNBALANCED TIME,
BUT SHE LOVED TO SIT

IN THE WINDOWSILL AND LOOK OUT
AND SING TO HERSELF.

SHE HAD A VERY SMALL
APARTMENT THERE,

AND I FEEL LIKE
WHAT HAPPENED IS,

SHE FELL ON
THE WROUGHT-IRON FENCE,

AND SHE WAS CAUGHT
ON ONE OF THE SPIKES

OF THE WROUGHT-IRON FENCE,
AND SHE BLED TO DEATH.

IF SOMEONE HAD CAUGHT HER,
SHE LANDED ON THE GROUND,

SHE MIGHT NOT HAVE DIED.

FROM THE SECOND FLOOR,
THAT'S NOT THAT FAR.

I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK SO,
BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THAT.

SHE HAD A REAL ZEST FOR LIFE.

SHE GOT BETTER AND BETTER
WITH HER WORK,

AND SHE WENT BACK TO ENGLAND,

AND SHE STARTED
TAKING HER MEDICINE.

SHE FOUND HER OWN PLACE,
AND SHE WORKED A LOT

FOR THE BRITISH,
THE DEAF ASSOCIATIONS.

SHE HELPED WRITE A DICTIONARY
OF SIGN LANGUAGE.

SHE WAS CALLED TO PRESENT
MANY WORKSHOPS,

AND SHE WAS VERY EXCITED
ABOUT HER LIFE.

THE DRAMA CLUB AT GALLAUDET
INVITED HER

AND GAVE HER AN AWARD,
AND SHE WAS HAPPY ABOUT THAT.

OH, YES.

I WAS PUZZLED,
BUT I REMEMBER BUYING THE BOOK

AND LOOKING THROUGH IT
AND NOT REALLY UNDERSTANDING IT,

BUT STOKOE HAD NOT REALLY
STARTED THAT RESEARCH.

IT WAS REALLY URSULA BELLUGI
WHO BEGAN IT.

THAT'S WHERE
THE TRUE RESEARCH BEGAN.

IT WAS WITH BELLUGI, SO WHEN
I LOOKED IT UP BY STOKOE,

I LOOKED AT THE IDEAS IN IT,
AND I THOUGHT, "FINE.

THAT MAKES SENSE TO ME," BUT IT
WAS NOT UNTIL I BECAME FRIENDS

WITH DR. BELLUGI, SIGNED WITH
A "U" ON THE CHEEK LIKE THIS...

BUT YOU KNOW BASICALLY
IF WAS JUST A FEW YEARS

AFTER NTD WAS FOUNDED.

NTD WAS FOUNDED IN '67,
AND BELLUGI'S RESEARCH

IN THE LAB WAS AROUND
'70 OR '73.

THAT'S WHEN THEY COINED
THIS NEW NAME FOR SIGN LANGUAGE.

THEY CALLED IT--

WE'D ALWAYS CALLED IT
OUR LANGUAGE, THE SIGN LANGUAGE,

BUT THEY CALLED IT ASL,

AND THAT'S WHEN WE STARTED
KIND OF DISCUSSING THIS

AND DEBATING THIS...

AND I THOUGHT THAT PERHAPS
I WAS WRONG,

AND SHE PROVED ME WRONG,
AND I STARTED ANALYZING

WHAT I'D BEEN THINKING ALL ALONG
AS I WAS GROWING UP.

I'D JUST SIGNED,
BUT I'D ALWAYS THOUGHT

THAT ENGLISH, YOU KNOW,
THAT'S THE WORLD LANGUAGE.

EVERYONE USES ENGLISH.

I'D GROWN UP TAUGHT THAT ENGLISH

WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING
TO LEARN

AND SIGN LANGUAGE WAS DIFFERENT.

YOU ONLY USE IT
IN YOUR OWN WORLD,

YOUR SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE.

THAT'S FOR US,
BUT IN THE GREATER WORLD

TO BE SUCCESSFUL,
WE NEEDED TO LEARN ENGLISH,

AND ASL WAS INSIGNIFICANT,
BUT NOW I HAD PROOF

RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME.

I REALIZED I HAD TO ACCEPT FULLY
AT THAT POINT

THAT IT IS TRUE.

ASL IS A REAL,
IN-DEPTH LANGUAGE,

AND SO I STARTED LOOKING
AT MY OWN SIGN LANGUAGE.

I LOOKED AT VIDEOTAPES
I MADE ALL ALONG.

SHE AND I WERE FRIENDS
AT THE TIME,

AND FINALLY SHE
ADMITTED TO ME THAT--

SHE SAID,
"YOU'RE RIGHT IN A WAY,

"BUT WE CAN'T KEEP ASL PURE.

"ENGLISH WILL INFLUENCE IT,

BUT IT CAN STILL STAND ALONE
SEPARATE FROM ENGLISH."

POETRY AND STORIES,
IT'S VERY EXCITING.

FOR SURE. YES. I AGREE.
YES, DEFINITELY.

YES. I'VE GONE THROUGH THAT
MYSELF, THE CHANGE.

AT FIRST, I WAS VERY RESISTANT,
OF COURSE...

BUT AFTER A WHILE,
I GRADUALLY DID ACCEPT IT,

AND I REALIZED THAT IT WAS PART
OF MY ESSENCE TRULY.

YES. YOU KNOW, I HAD SIGNED
MY WHOLE LIFE.

ASL WAS FUN.

I LOVE STORYTELLING IN ASL.

MY FATHER, OF COURSE, WAS QUITE
AN ACCOMPLISHED STORYTELLER,

AND I PICKED UP
SO MANY TIPS FROM HIM.

YOU KNOW, WE WOULD
SIT AROUND IN SCHOOL.

WE'D TELL STORIES IN SIGN.

DO YOU KNOW, I DID NOT REALLY
SEE IT AS A LANGUAGE ITSELF.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE JUST
A SMALL MINORITY GROUP.

WE USE IT AMONGST OURSELVES,
BUT OUR TRUE STRUGGLE

WAS TO IMPROVE OUR ENGLISH
TO SUCCEED IN THE WORLD,

IN THE HEARING WORLD.

THAT WAS ALWAYS THE GOAL.

PEOPLE LOOKED DOWN ON ASL.

IT WAS A SMALL, LITTLE LANGUAGE
USED IN OUR CIRCLE.

NOW WE KNOW IT'S ON THE PAR
WITH ENGLISH,

AND IT'S IMPORTANT.

IT'S GOT THE RESPECT
IT DESERVES,

BUT THAT WAS NOT TRUE
IN MY TIME.

THERE WAS A LOT OF DIFFICULTY
UP UNTIL NOW.

IT WAS LIKE THE BIRTH OF ASL
WAS ESTABLISHED.

THE LINGUISTIC WORLD WAS READY,

SO YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND
WHERE I'M COMING FROM,

AND THIS WAS AN ISSUE
WITH M.J. BIENVENU AND I.

WE USED TO HAVE
THESE GREAT TESTS OF WILLS.

YOU KNOW, SHE'S FROM
A DIFFERENT GENERATION THAN I.

SHE GREW UP ALREADY FEELING
THAT IT WAS LANGUAGE

IN ITS OWN RIGHT.

WE'RE GOOD FRIENDS NOW, AND
THOSE ARGUMENTS ARE BEHIND US.

I WORKED AT THE NATIONAL THEATRE
FOR THE DEAF,

AND IT WAS A PARTICULAR
ONUS OF MINE

TO DO THE TRANSLATION,
A BIG RESPONSIBILITY FOR ME

IN ABOUT 1967 BECAUSE
THERE WERE NO ROLE MODELS.

THERE WERE NO PRECURSORS
FOR THIS SORT OF WORK

THAT I WAS DOING.

WE HAD TO DO SOME APPROXIMATION
OF SIGNING TO THE ENGLISH.

FINALLY, PEOPLE WERE SAYING,
"YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE

"TO TRY AND FORCE THE THINGS
INTO A BETTER SORT

OF RENDITION OF SIGN LANGUAGE."

WHEN I WORKED WITH DOT MILES,

IT WAS A WHOLE DIFFERENT SORT
OF PROCESS.

SHE SAID, "NO.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO FORCE IT.

"WE HAVE TO KEEP THE POETRY.

WE HAVE TO KEEP
THE BEAUTY OF IT."

DOT MILES, YOU KNOW,
HAD THIS BEAUTIFUL WAY

OF SIGNING ENGLISH.

SHE COULD RELATE THE SIGNS
TO THE ENGLISH

AND ENGLISH TO THE SIGNS...

REALLY AMAZING WAY.

IT WAS VERY INTERESTING, HOW SHE
MADE THOSE SORT OF CONNECTIONS.

SOME PEOPLE THOUGHT YOU SHOULD
KEEP IT TRULY SEPARATE.

I WAS OPEN ENOUGH TO THE PROCESS
TO TRY TO TAKE THIS PLUNGE

AND MAKE SOME SORT
OF AMALGAMATION OF IT.

YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF
A SINK-OR-SWIM KIND THING,

BUT I GREW IN UNDERSTANDING MORE
AS THE PROCESS CONTINUED.

YOU KNOW, I REALIZED THAT THIS

WAS NOT ANYTHING
LIKE ABC STORIES.

WE WERE DOING SOMETHING
TOTALLY DIFFERENT HERE.

I ENJOYED WATCHING OTHER PEOPLE
DO ABC STORIES.

THEY'RE EITHER FUN OR THEY
WERE NOT MY THING, REALLY.

YOU FOLLOWED ABC STRUCTURE,
BUT THERE'S NO DEPTH OF FEELING.

THERE ARE NO HEAVY IDEAS.
IT'S KIND OF CUTE.

OH, YES, BUT NOT ABC STORIES.

OH, YES.
I'M THINKING, WAS THAT--

THE WORD AMALGAMATION, YES,
IT IS VERY DIFFERENT.

I AGREE.

THE WORD AND WHAT IT'S
TRULY EXPRESSING WITH ABC,

YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO WORDS
THERE AT ALL.

WITH WORDS AND THEIR MEANING,
YES, I UNDERSTAND.

YEAH, THE STORY BEHIND IT, TRUE.

WELL, MOVEMENT--
IS THAT WHAT YOU MEAN,

BODY LANGUAGE AND EXPRESSION,
BODY EXPRESSION?

OF COURSE YOU USE
YOUR BODY LANGUAGE, AS WELL.

YES. YOU DO SEE THAT.

UH, I'M NOT SURE IF I UNDERSTAND
YOUR QUESTION.

YES, LARGE MOVEMENT.

YES. IT'S VERY DIFFERENT.

WHEN YOU'RE
PERFORMING SOMETHING,

YOU STAY IN ONE PLACE.

PATRICK GRAYBILL WOULD DO THAT.

DOROTHY MILES WOULD MOVE AROUND.

THIS OTHER PERSON
DIDN'T MOVE VERY MUCH, EITHER,

ONLY USED THEIR ARMS MOSTLY
FOR EXPRESSION.

GRAMMAR--

NO. I DIDN'T HAVE
A PROBLEM READING

OR UNDERSTANDING THEIR POETRY.

I UNDERSTOOD IT RIGHT AWAY.

I DIDN'T HAVE A PROBLEM
WITH THAT,

MAYBE THE ENGLISH, AS WELL.

I WOULD READ SOME PARTS
I WOULD UNDERSTAND.

SOME I DIDN'T.

I'D HAVE TO READ IT
A SECOND AND THIRD TIME.

IT WAS NEVER PERFECT.

YES. I'M AS AT HOME
WITH PERFORMING IN ASL.

I MEAN, I GREW UP WITH IT.

I IMMEDIATELY THINK IN ASL
AND PERFORM THAT WAY.

MAYBE A NEW SIGNER
OR HEARING PERSON

MIGHT HAVE TROUBLE FOLLOWING IT.

YES. I HAVE ONE I CAN SHOW YOU.
I HAVE ONE FOR YOU.

IT'S CALLED "DEATH."

DEATH.

WHAT IS IT?

CLOSED EYES,
HANDS ACROSS ONE'S CHEST,

AND A SENSE OF PEACE,

LOWERED INTO THE GROUND
AND BURIED,

PEACE AT LAST...

BUT WAIT.

PERHAPS THE SOUL
WILL ASCEND TO HEAVEN

AND MEET THE CREATOR

OR PERHAPS DESCEND TO THE DEPTHS
AND MEET WHAT IS BELOW.

WE JUST DON'T KNOW.

WE WAIT,

AND WE HOPE.

OK. IF YOU NOTICED IN THAT POEM,
FACIAL EXPRESSION

PLAYS A MAJOR PART
OF THE MEANING.

THE FACE SPEAKS VOLUMES.

THE HANDS ARE JUST MOVEMENTS
OF THE SIGNS, OF COURSE,

BUT THE FACIAL GRAMMAR
IS CRUCIAL,

SO "DEATH,"
THE SIGN FOR "DEATH,"

AND THE SIGN FOR "WHAT,"
AS IN "WHAT IS THAT?"

ON MY FACE, YOU CAN SEE THAT
AND THEN CLOSED EYES,

THEN BURIED, PEACEFUL, WHATEVER,
THEN, "WAIT A MINUTE.

MAYBE WE WILL ASCEND."

MAYBE THE DEAD PERSON
WILL GO UP TO HEAVEN

OR PERHAPS THE OTHER WAY,
BUT WE DON'T KNOW.

WE DON'T KNOW
WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS,

AND WHILE WE WAIT, WE HOPE.

IT'S ALL THAT SIMPLE.

NO. NO.

I DON'T THINK FIRST IN WORDS.

I THINK IN SIGNS FIRST.

A FRIEND OF MINE WHO IS HEARING
SAID, "WHAT KIND OF WORDS

WOULD YOU GIVE TO INTERPRET
FOR AN AUDIENCE?"

AND I SAID, "MAYBE YOU SHOULD
SPEAK THE WORDS FOR ME FIRST

TO THE AUDIENCE--
"DEAF," "WHAT," "LOWERED,"

"INTO THE GRAVE," OR "BURIED."

"YOU CAN SAY IT EITHER WAY--

"YOU KNOW, WORD, WORD, WORD,
LIKE A GLOSS RENDITION--

"SO AT THE SAME TIME
THAT I SIGN,

"YOU SHOULD SAY IT THEN,
OR SHOULD YOU SAY IT FIRST,

"AND THEN I SIGN AFTERWARDS?

"MAYBE PEOPLE HEAR IT
AND UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT,

"AND THEN THEY WATCH
THE SIGNS AFTERWARD,

AND MAYBE THEN THEY'LL
BE ABLE TO CATCH IT."

I PERFORMED THAT
FOR A SMALL GROUP,

FOR AN AUDIENCE,
BUT IF I READ IT

FOR DEAF PEOPLE,
IT'S DIFFERENT, OF COURSE.

ASL STUDENTS, PEOPLE WHO ARE
STUDYING AND ANALYZING IT,

YOU KNOW, IF THEY USE
A VIDEOTAPE,

THEN I CAN GIVE AN EXPLANATION
TO BEGIN WITH,

AND THEY CAN UNDERSTAND IT
AFTERWARDS

WITHOUT A VOCAL RENDITION.

NO. I GAVE MY FRIEND THE WORDS.

NO, BUT I WROTE A SONG,
ACTUALLY,

THAT I'LL BE SINGING TONIGHT.

IT'S A SONG FOR THE EYE,
NOT FOR THE EAR.

I CAN SHOW IT TO YOU NOW
IF YOU LIKE.

DO YOU WANT IT WITHOUT WORDS,
JUST THE SIGNS?

WELCOME TO MY THEATER
IN THE SKY, COMEDY,

FLYING,
FLYING AGAINST THE WIND.

LET US FLY TOGETHER
AGAINST THE WIND.

FLY IN THE RAIN,
THE LIGHTNING, THE STORMS.

FLY HIGH OVER THE EARTH.

FLY TO THE SUN. FLY TO THE MOON.

FLY THROUGH THE WHITE CLOUDS
IN THE SKY

AND FLY THROUGH THE DARKNESS.

IT IS A THEATER IN THE SKY,
THE STORY OF MY LIFE.

YES, MY LIFE,
MY LIFE ON WINGS

FULL OF SURPRISES AND HOPES
AND ENJOYMENTS,

FRUSTRATIONS AND FEARS,
HAPPINESS AND LAUGHTER.

THAT IS THE THEATER IN THE SKY.

THE CLOUDS ARE LIKE THE CURTAINS
THAT OPENED WIDE FOR ME

UP IN THE SKY.

THE STARS ARE THE FOOTLIGHTS
AND STAGE LIGHTS,

AND THE OTHER PASSENGERS
ARE THE AUDIENCES UP IN THE SKY.

THE ANGELS
ARE OUR AUDIENCE, TOO.

THE PLANE ITSELF IS THE STAGE.

OTHER PASSENGERS
ARE LIKE ACTORS, THE SAME AS I,

AND THE PILOT IS LIKE
A STAGE DIRECTOR.

THE FLIGHT ATTENDANTS
ARE THE USHERS.

THAT IS OUR THEATER
IN THE SKY...

THE STORY OF MY LIFE, YES,
MY LIFE ON WINGS.

I LIVE NOW AND LOOK BACK
ON ALL THE TIMES

THAT I HAVE GONE THROUGH
AND TONIGHT

I WILL PRESENT THEM TO YOU,
SO STRAP ON YOUR SEAT BELTS.

GET READY TO ENJOY THE RIDE.

THESE ARE NO ENGLISH WORDS
IN THAT,

JUST ALL SIGNS FOR THE EYE,

AND IT'S IN SORT OF
A SONG FORMAT.

IT'S MUSICAL IN A WAY.
IT'S NOT A POEM.

NOW, IT'S DIFFERENT.

I HAD NEVER TRIED THIS BEFORE

THE FIRST TIME
I REALLY ATTEMPTED IT.

I HAD TRIED TO WRITE, ACTUALLY,
SORT OF THOSE WORDS IN A SONG,

MUSIC FOR THE EYE.

YES. OH, OK. YES.
I FEEL IT VERY STRONGLY.

I THINK I'VE ALWAYS BEEN
MUSICALLY INCLINED

EVER SINCE I WAS LITTLE.

I GUESS SOME PEOPLE
ARE JUST BORN THAT WAY.

SOME ARE NOT.

EVEN HEARING PEOPLE SOMETIMES
DO NOT HAVE

A SENSITIVITY FOR MUSIC.

I WAS, BUT I WAS BORN DEAF.

YES. I LIKE THAT.
I DO HAVE ANOTHER SONG.

IT'S "THE FLYING SONG."
LET ME SEE.

OH, IT'S THE NAMES
OF COUNTRIES AND STATES,

CITY SIGNS HERE IN AMERICA.

I JUST PUT THEM ALL TOGETHER
IN A SIGN SONG KIND OF THING.

LET ME THINK.
FLY TO EUROPE. FLY TO AFRICA.

FLY TO ASIA. FLY TO HONG KONG.

FLY, FLY, FLY
ALL OVER THE WORLD.

FLY TO SWEDEN, TO MOSCOW,
TO LONDON.

FLY, FLY, FLY.

PHILADELPHIA, CHICAGO.

FLY, FLY.

LONDON, HONG KONG.

ALL OVER THE WORLD, FLY.

PHILADELPHIA, CHICAGO,
ROCHESTER, AUSTIN.

FLY, FLY.

BALTIMORE, DETROIT.

FLY, FLY ALL OVER THE WORLD.

SEATTLE, PHOENIX,

SOUTH CAROLINA, NORTH CAROLINA,
MARYLAND, VIRGINIA.

FLY, FLY, FLY
ALL OVER THE WORLD.

AND FINALLY, NEW YORK,
NEW ORLEANS,

AND FLY HOME TO LA-LA LAND.

SO IF YOU NOTICE,
THERE'S A VISUAL RHYME GOING ON,

ESPECIALLY WITH, LIKE,
"PHOENIX" AND "SEATTLE,"

"BALTIMORE," "DETROIT,"

THE MOVEMENT UP AND DOWN
OR SIDE TO SIDE.

IN ENGLISH, THERE WAS
CORRESPONDING TO RHYMES,

BUT WE HAVE TO DO
VISUAL MOVEMENTS

THAT WOULD BE A PARALLEL
TO THAT STRUCTURE.

IT'S A SIGN SONG.

I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYBODY ELSE
DO THAT BEFORE.

PROBABLY FROM THE SONG
AT GALLAUDET.

YOU KNOW THAT SONG?

I THINK THAT
REALLY INFLUENCED ME,

MAYBE THE RHYTHM OF THE SONG.

IT WASN'T POETRY--
IT'S DIFFERENT--

BUT IT INFLUENCED
MY PERFORMANCE

ABOUT THE SKY AND FLYING...

AND ALSO, I DEVELOPED SOMETHING
CALLED VISUAL VERNACULAR, VV.

IT'S A FORM OF MIME.

IT'S NOT REALLY
A FULL MIME STRUCTURE.

I CHANGE IT INTO
A SMALLER FRAME SIZE

AND SOMEWHAT LIKE A FILM FRAME.

IT'S AS IF YOU WERE EDITING
BETWEEN DIFFERENT SHOTS--

CLOSE-UP, FAR AWAY.

I REFER TO THIS
AS VISUAL VERNACULAR

FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM.

I THINK I DECIDED
WHEN I WAS STUDYING MIME

UNDER MARCEL MARCEAU

THAT I WOULD
TWEAK HIS METHODS SOMEWHAT,

AND I CREATED
THIS NEW SIGN FORM.

IT IS VERY MUCH PART
OF OUR LANGUAGE, ANYWAY.

IT IS A DEAF WAY OF SIGNING.

IT IS REALLY EMBEDDED
WITHIN IT,

AND I'VE BEEN TEACHING
THIS PARTICULAR TECHNIQUE

FOR MANY YEARS.

SOME OF IT'S REALLY SUCCESSFUL,

AND IT SEEMS TO HAVE
REALLY TAKEN OFF

AND SPREAD AROUND THE COUNTRY,
BUT I DECIDED--

I DO HAVE A FEW STORIES
I PRESENTED IN VV.

I WILL BE SHOWING SOME TONIGHT
AT THE PERFORMANCE.

I CAN SHOW YOU A LITTLE BIT HERE
JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA

OF WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.

LET ME SHOW YOU ONE.
IT'S AN OLDER ONE.

I'VE DONE IT SEVERAL YEARS AGO.

I'M NOT SURE IF YOU'VE
SEEN THIS ONE BEFORE.

UM, YOU HAVE--IT'S A HUNTER
AND HIS DOG.

HAVE YOU SEEN THAT ONE?

NO. I DON'T WANT
TO REPEAT MYSELF TO YOU

IF YOU'VE ALREADY SEEN IT.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU'VE SEEN IT,

PEOPLE DON'T WANT
TO SEE IT AGAIN.

OK. IT USES CUTS AND EDITS,
ZOOM IN, CLOSE-UPS.

I DEVELOP VISUAL VERNACULAR
AND KIND OF OVERLAID IT

WITH POETRY AND SONG STYLE
OF EXPRESSION VISUALLY.

I PUT IT ALL TOGETHER
AND MIXED IT UP

AND THEN OFFERED IT
TO THE AUDIENCE.

THERE'S THE HUNTER.

HE LOADS HIS GUN...

GIVES A WHISTLE.

"COME ON, BOY,"
AND HERE IS HIS DOG.

THE HUNTER PATS HIM ON THE HEAD.
THE DOG REACTS.

THEY WALK THROUGH THE WOODS.

ALL OF A SUDDEN, THE DOG STOPS.

HE INDICATES
THAT THERE'S A BIRD UP AHEAD.

THE DOG POINTS.
THE HUNTER BLOWS HIS WHISTLE.

THE BIRD TAKES WING.

THE HUNTER TAKES AIM
AND KILLS IT.

THE BIRD FLOPS DOWN
TO THE GROUND,

AND THE DOG RUNS OVER
TO RETRIEVE IT,

BRINGS IT BACK TO THE HUNTER,
WHO PATS HIS HEAD...

TAKES THE BIRD FROM THE DOG,
AND THEY CONTINUE ON THEIR WAY.

THE CAMERA FREEZES, AND
THE DOG WINKS AT THE AUDIENCE.

YOU CAN SEE IT'S LIKE
WATCHING A WHOLE MOVIE.

IT'S A FILM TECHNIQUE
USING EDITING,

CLOSE AND FAR SHOTS,

DIFFERENT CHARACTERS GOING
BACK AND FORTH IN THE FRAME

TO THE CHARACTERS
WITHIN THE STORY.

THERE ARE 3 CHARACTERS
IN THAT MOVIE TO SHOW.

YOU CAN SIT IN ONE PLACE
AN INCORPORATE ALL OF THOSE

IN ONE FRAME JUST LIKE
WATCHING A MOVIE ON TV.

IT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU.

THAT'S THE BASIC IDEA
OF VISUAL VERNACULAR,

SO THERE'S MIME,
AND IT IS PART OF MY ASL STYLE.

WILLIAM STOKOE SAW ME DOING THIS
AND CALLED ME INTO HIS OFFICE

ONE TIME AFTER HE SAW ME, AND
I SHOWED HIM SEVERAL EXAMPLES

OF MY VISUAL VERNACULAR,
AND HE LOVED IT.

HE SAID, "IT'S INTERESTING
TO SEE THE NARRATIVE IN ASL,

AND IT'S VERY CINEMATIC."

WELL, I'D NEVER THOUGHT
ABOUT THAT BEFORE,

AND STOKOE WROTE,
"BERNARD BRAGG HAS DONE

THIS WONDERFUL,
CINEMATIC TECHNIQUE."

WHEN I TELL THIS STORY
WHEN I'M DESCRIBING THINGS,

IT IS VERY CONDENSED.

IT'S IN A PICTURE FORMAT.

IT'S VERY SIMPLE,
AND IT'S ACTUALLY INCORPORATED

INTO NATURAL ASL SIGNING...

AND SO NOW THERE IS A PROFESSOR
AT GALLAUDET

NAMED DIRKSEN SOMETHING--
I DON'T KNOW HIS LAST NAME--

AND HE'S USED THE TERMINOLOGY
"CINEMATIC TECHNIQUE"

TO APPLY TO MY WORK.

I SAID, "NOW, YOU GOT TO GIVE ME
CREDIT FOR THIS.

I CONSTRUCTED IT," AND HE SAID,
"OH, OF COURSE I WILL.

I WILL GIVE YOU CREDIT."

THERE ARE A LOT OF STUDIES
BEING DONE ON ASL

IN TERMS OF CINEMATIC
AND FILM TECHNIQUES

THAT ARE USED WITHIN IT.

I TAUGHT VV FOR SEVERAL YEARS,

AND YOU KNOW I WAS AT NTD
FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS.

I THINK THAT I'VE INFLUENCED
MANY YOUNG PEOPLE

WHO CAME TO OUR WORKSHOPS.

I THINK A LOT OF THEM HAVE
INCORPORATED IT INTO THEIR WORK.

OH, YES.

PETER COOK LEARNED A LOT FROM
MY WORKSHOP WAY BACK IN THE DAY.

I THINK HE HAS HAD A GREAT DEAL
OF INFLUENCE ON HIM.

I WATCH WHAT HE DOES NOW
AND THINK, "WOW."

IF A LITTLE BIT
OF WHAT I TAUGHT HIM

WAS IMPLANTED WITHIN HIM
AND HE'S GROWN TO THAT EXTENT,

THAT'S WONDERFUL.

IT'S BEAUTIFUL.
HIS WORK IS WONDERFUL.

I COULD TELL YOU I PERFORMED
AT GALLAUDET JUST LAST WEEK,

AND AFTER THAT,
SEVERAL PEOPLE CAME UP TO ME

AND MADE VARIOUS COMMENTS.

I JUST LOVED WHAT THEY SAID
ABOUT MY WORK.

I SAID, "REALLY?
YOU SEE IT THAT WAY?"

THEY SAID, "YES. IT'S LIKE 3-D."
I SAID, "WHAT DO YOU MEAN?"

THEY SAID THEY FELT LIKE
THEY WERE IN THE STORY,

IMMERSED IN THE STORY.

I SAID, "OH, IT'S
VERY 3-DIMENSIONAL,"

AND IT WASN'T WORD FOR WORD.

THEY SAID THEY FELT LIKE
THEY WERE IN THE PICTURE

AND IT ZOOMED IN
AND THEN SUDDENLY

THEY WERE IN THE PICTURE.

THEY SAID IT FELT LIKE
IT HAPPENED TO THEM.

THEY SAID IT WAS VERY
FROM THE HEART

AND THEY FELT THAT I WAS VERY
IMMERSED IN MY STORY.

IT WASN'T LIKE I WAS TELLING
AN OBJECTIVE STORY.

THEY SAID THEY JUST
WERE ENTRANCED

WITH HOW I TOLD THE STORY,

AND YOU KNOW HOW I BEGIN.

I SPELL MY NAME.

I DON'T SPELL IT
IN THE CONVENTIONAL WAY.

I SPELL IT FROM RIGHT TO LEFT,
FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE...

SO THEY CAN READ IT
AND FEEL IMMEDIATELY DRAWN IN.

THEY DON'T HAVE TO REVERSE
ANYTHING.

I WANT THEN TO SEE THINGS
THROUGH MY EYES

SO THAT THEY CAN FEEL
THE WAY THAT I FEEL

AND SO THAT IT REALLY IS
AN ALL-INCLUSIVE EXPERIENCE.

I THINK THAT'S THE MARK
OF A GOOD STORYTELLER.

YES. A LITTLE GIRL CAME UP TO ME
AFTER A PERFORMANCE,

AND SHE SAID, "I LOOKED AT YOU,

AND YOU LOOKED
LIKE A MOVIE STAR."

I SAID, "REALLY?"
SHE SAID, "YES."

DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
I HAD NO IDEA.

YES. I THINK SO. YES.

LITTLE GIRLS AND BOYS,
THIS IS THEIR FIRST LANGUAGE,

AND I THINK MAYBE LONG AGO,
SIGNING OR GESTURE

WAS THE FIRST LANGUAGE
THAT PEOPLE USED.

BEFORE THERE WAS
WRITTEN LANGUAGE,

PEOPLE DREW THINGS ON WALLS.

THEY DREW STORIES,
SO THROUGH ART

AND THROUGH GESTURES,
HOW THEY COMMUNICATED.

I BELIEVE PICTURES
WHERE THE FIRST LANGUAGE.

IT'S ALMOST LIKE THERE WERE
ALL THESE MOVIES

PEOPLE WERE PRESENTING, LIKE
THERE WAS A SABER-TOOTHED TIGER

OVER THERE
AND A PERSON SHOWS THAT,

MIMES HAVE A SPEAR
GO THROUGH THE TIGER

AND KILLING IT AND THEN
MAYBE BITING OFF A HUNK

AND EATING IT
AND THEN WINKING.

WELL, MAYBE NOT
THE WINKING PART.

IF YOU WERE SEEING SOMETHING
FROM THE TOP OF A TREE,

DESCRIBING THAT,
IF YOU'RE CLIMBING UP A TREE

AND YOU SEE THE TIGER CLAWING
AT THE BOTTOM OF THE TREE

AND HE WANTS TO COME UP
AND YOU'RE LOOKING DOWN

AT YOUR HAND, YOU'RE SHOWING
THE TIGER IS BELOW YOU.

SEE, YOU'RE SHOWING
WHAT YOU'RE SEEING.

THAT'S MY POINT OF VIEW...

AND YOU SHOW THE ACTION
OF WHAT THE TIGER IS DOING

WITH YOUR OTHER HAND.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO WATCH A MOVIE
TO SEE THAT.

I'M NOT SURE HOW
THEY WOULD DO THAT.

A LONG TIME AGO, I WOULD SAY,
IN STORYTELLING

THAT INFLUENCED ME
AND MAYBE INFLUENCED MOVIES,

BUT THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

IT IS SOMETHING TO PONDER,
TRYING TO IMAGINE

WHAT CAVEMEN, CAVEPEOPLE THOUGHT
AND HOW THEY COMMUNICATED

AMONGST THEMSELVES.

IF THEY WERE ON THE TOP
OF THE TREE

AND THEY WERE TRYING
TO SAY THAT--

OR TELL SOMEONE LATER
FROM THAT ANGLE LOOKING DOWN,

HOW WOULD THEY SHOW THAT,
OR SOMEONE LOOKING UP,

WHAT DO YOU SEE WHEN YOU'RE
LOOKING UP IN THE SKY?

MAYBE THERE'S A BIRD,
AND HOW WOULD THEY GESTURE

A BIRD FLYING
IF THEY DID NOT HAVE

A VOCAL LANGUAGE
OR A SPECIFIC SIGN LANGUAGE?

OR A FISH IN THE WATER,
THEY WOULD SHOW THIS FISH,

AND THEY ARE TRYING TO RECOUNT
HOW THEY SPEARED THIS FISH,

BROUGHT IT OUT OF THE WATER,
AND THEN THEY ATE IT.

HOW WOULD THEY DO THAT?

OH, YES. THE TWO OF US
HAVE BEEN VERY GOOD FRIENDS

FOR A LONG TIME, YES,
MALZ AND I.

HE'S VERY CLEVER, VERY CREATIVE,

THE WAY HE PLAYS WITH HIS SIGNS
AND HIS TRANSLATIONS,

HIS ENGLISH WORDS INTO SIGN--
VERY FUN.

NOT MUCH. NOT REALLY.

I WAS REALLY ENTRANCED
WITH "JABBERWOCKY"

BECAUSE THE WORDS
DON'T MAKE ANY SENSE.

IT WAS SUCH A CHALLENGE FOR HIM
TO TRANSLATE IT

AND EXPAND UPON IT

AND IMAGINE
WHAT THE LANGUAGE MIGHT MEAN.

HE WAS GREAT AT THAT.

THAT WAS NOT THE ONLY THING
THAT I KNOW OF

HE DID ALONG THOSE LINES.

HE DOES A LOT OF GOOD
PLAYING WITH SIGN,

A LOT OF JOKE IN SIGN,
BUT I'VE NOT SEEN

ANYTHING ELSE HE'S DONE
LIKE THAT.

HE MOSTLY WRITES A LOT OF SONGS.

HE DOES A LOT
OF WRITTEN ENGLISH.

MOSTLY HIS WORK
IS WRITTEN ENGLISH OF THE EAR,

FOR THE MUSICALITY OF IT.

YES. IT'S INTERESTING,
THIS EAR-MUSIC KIND OF THING,

BUT HE DOES NOT HEAR, OF COURSE.

HE LOST HIS HEARING
WHEN HE WAS A YOUNG BOY

AND COULD HEAR
BEFORE HE BECAME DEAF,

SO I THINK HE STILL HAS
A STRONG LOVE AND CONNECTION

WITH SPOKEN ENGLISH
AND THE WAY THE SOUNDS WORK.

HE WROTE PLAYS,
AND HE WROTE SONGS.

REALLY, IT'S WONDERFUL
HOW TALENTED HE IS.

YEAH. HE'S CHAMP.

HIS SON, I SAW HIM
JUST A WEEK AGO,

AND HE SAID THAT
HE WAS DOING FINE,

THEY'D MOVED
TO NORTHERN VIRGINIA,

HE WAS DOING WELL,

HIS HEALTH HAD CONTINUED
TO DECLINE

BUT HIS MIND WAS STILL SHARP,
AND THAT HE'S BEEN DOING FINE.

YEAH. OH, THE TWO OF US
WORKED TOGETHER

AT THE NATIONAL THEATRE
FOR THE DEAF.

WE WERE ROOMMATES
AND TOURED TOGETHER.

WE SHARED A LOT OF THINGS
WITH EACH OTHER--

A LOT OF IDEAS, POETRY,
IDEAS FOR THAT,

AND THEN LINES FROM THE PLAY
THAT WE WERE PERFORMING.

WE'D TALK ABOUT IT.

WE HAD A GOOD TIME.
WE WERE VERY GOOD FRIENDS.

YES. IN GENERAL, THAT'S TRUE.

REALLY, I'VE SEEN A LOT
OF CONTENT.

I SEE, REALLY,
TWO DIFFERENT CAMPS OF PEOPLE.

IT SEEMS TO ME THERE ARE PEOPLE
WHO ARE FROM DEAF FAMILY

AND PEOPLE WHO ARE
FROM HEARING FAMILIES,

AND THEIR WORK IS VERY DIFFERENT
IN SOME WAY.

THE 3 OF US--

PATRICK GRAYBILL IS NOT EXACTLY
FROM A DEAF FAMILY.

HE HAS DEAF SIBLINGS.

HE GREW UP NOT IN A DEAF FAMILY
AND A DEAF WORLD,

BUT HIS MOTHER
IS A VERY ACCOMPLISHED SIGNER.

AND ELLA MAE LENTZ IS FROM

A VERY STRONG
CULTURALLY DEAF FAMILY.

I'M FROM A DEAF FAMILY, ALSO,

AND WHO ELSE WERE WE
TALKING ABOUT?

NO, NO, NOT PANERA.

I MEAN ASL POETRY, NOT--

PANERA DIDN'T DO THAT.

HE WASN'T INVOLVED
IN THAT GROUP.

THERE WERE 3 OF US, REALLY.

DEBBIE RENNIE, PETER COOK,
AND VALLI,

DIFFERENT GROUPS...

AND YOU CAN SEE A DIFFERENCE,
I WOULD REALLY SAY,

FROM THE FIRST CREATING
ASL POETRY.

WELL, LET ME SEE.
VALLI DOES THAT.

IS THAT CORRECT?

WAS HE MAYBE THE FIRST PERSON
DOING THAT?

WHO ELSE? WAS THAT ELLA?

REALLY, I BELIEVE
I WAS THE FIRST ONE

BECAUSE I TAUGHT
AND I WAS TEACHING IT, YOU KNOW.

THERE WERE CLASSES,
AND WE WERE DOING EXPERIMENTS

WITH DIFFERENT THINGS SIGNING,
AND ELLA WAS ONE OF MY STUDENTS,

AND I BELIEVE THAT CLAYTON VALLI
TOOK ONE OF MY CLASSES ONE TIME,

SO I FEEL LIKE I HAD
A LITTLE BIT OF INFLUENCE

THAT I HAVE THROWN OUT THERE,

BUT THEN THEY TOOK THESE IDEA,
AND IT IS WHAT THEY DID

WITH THE ASL AFTERWARDS
THAT IT'S IMPORTANT.

THEY TRIED DIFFERENT TECHNIQUES
AND WAYS OF PRESENTING IT,

AND I THINK MAYBE THAT
WAS THE BEGINNING OF IT,

BUT I THINK VALLI REALLY STARTED
PLAYING WITH IT.

IT WAS NOT UNTIL HE BECAME
PART OF--LET'S SEE.

THERE WAS A LINGUIST--
WHAT WAS HER NAME?--

CELESTE OR SOMETHING,
A LINGUIST AT GALLAUDET.

IT WAS SOMEBODY
WHO REALLY PUSHED HIM

TO WORK VERY DEEPLY,

YOU KNOW, USE DICTIONARIES
AND GET MORE INTO IT

AND LOOK AT
THE LINGUISTICS OF IT

AND DO THE STUDIES AND ANALYSIS.

I FELL THAT REALLY CHALLENGED
VALLI TO GO INTO

A WHOLE OTHER REALM,
AND HE BECAME BETTER KNOWN

IN THE DEAF COMMUNITY
AFTER THAT.

I THINK HIS REPUTATION GREW,
EVEN AMONGST HEARING PEOPLE

AT THAT TIME.

YOU KNOW, DEBBIE MAYBE--
LET'S SEE.

SHE INFLUENCED PATRICK GRAYBILL,
I BELIEVE,

BUT I THINK ALSO
ELLA GOT INFLUENCE

FROM THESE PEOPLE, AS WELL--

LET ME SEE;
ELLA WAS BEFORE--

BECAUSE OF ME,
AND THERE'S A GENTLEMAN

NAMED JOE CASTRONOVO.

ELLA AND JOE
HAD WORKED WITH ME BEFORE.

MOSTLY I'D WORKED WITH JOE.

I WAS INVOLVED WITH TEACHING HIM
SIGN AND POETRY

AND PLAYING WITH SIGNS
AND WORKING

WITH THAT WHOLE
TRANSLATION PROCESS.

I SORT OF BEGAN THAT WITH HIM.

HE BECAME VERY FASCINATED
WITH IT AND THEN TOOK OFF,

WENT TO TOWN COMING UP
WITH A WHOLE MYRIAD

OF CREATIVE ENDEAVORS WITH IT,
AND THAT GREW WITHIN THAT GROUP,

AND THAT--HE BECAUSE
A REAL ASL POET THEN.

SO DID ELLA.

PATRICK GRAYBILL
WAS IN THAT GROUP,

SO I LOOK AT THESE TWO
PARALLEL GROUPS--

ONE FROM HEARING FAMILIES,
ONE FROM DEAF--

AND THEN IT SEEMED
TO STOP THERE,

AND THERE'S NOT BEEN
A RENAISSANCE LIKE THAT SINCE,

AND MY QUESTION IS, WHY?

WHERE IS EVERYBODY?
WHAT IS HAPPENING?

IT IS BECAUSE THERE ARE
SO MANY VIDEOTAPES OUT?

YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SELL
VIDEOTAPES,

AND THEY'RE ALL OVER THE MARKET.

I'M FORGETTING THE NAME
OF THE GROUP.

THERE'S A VIDEO COMPANY IN DC
THAT PRODUCES VIDEOS

OF WORK THAT I'VE SEEN,
BUT IT SEEMS AS IF

EVERYTHING HAS COME
TO A GRINDING HALT,

AND MY QUESTION IS, WHY?

I THINK SCHOOLS ARE NOT REALLY
ENCOURAGING CHILDREN

TO WATCH THESE TAPES

OR ENCOURAGING THE CHILDREN
TO EXPERIMENT.

I MEAN, I DON'T REALLY KNOW
HOW TO DESCRIBE THAT

OR EXPLAIN WHY IT'S HAPPENING.

I DON'T KNOW WHY IT STOPPED.

YES. ELLA, FOR ONE, I DON'T
REMEMBER THE TITLE EXACTLY,

BUT IT WAS REALLY
ABOUT OPPRESSION,

PEOPLE FEELING THAT ENGLISH
WAS THE BE-ALL AND END-ALL

AND THAT THEY WERE ALL
LOOKING DOWN ON ASL.

I AM REMEMBERING, YOU KNOW,
IT WAS A VERY POWERFUL THING.

IT CAME FROM A PLACE OF ANGER
WITHIN HER,

BUT IT WAS SITUATIONAL.

IT IS ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON
HERE IN AMERICA,

HOW EVERYONE TRIES
TO IMPRESS UPON PEOPLE

THAT ENGLISH IS THE LANGUAGE
TO LEARN AND THAT ASL

IS SOMEHOW SUBHUMAN
OR LESS ELEVATED.

YOU SEE THAT EXPRESSED
IN HER POETRY.

SHE DOES A POEM WHERE THEY'RE
UNEARTHING THIS TREASURE,

WHICH IS ASL,
AND THAT EVERY TIME

THEY TRY TO SHOW IT, THE DIRT
IS THROWN BACK INTO THE FACES

OF THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO SHOW
THAT ASL IS EQUAL AND BEAUTIFUL.

IT'S VERY POWERFUL AND ANGRY.

I WONDER IF THAT SORT OF POETRY,
YOU KNOW, IF IT COMES

FROM THAT PLACE OF ANGER,

IT COMES FROM A PLACE
OF OPPRESSION.

I BELIEVE THAT'S FINE.
THAT'S PART OF IT.

YOU COULD CALL THAT
POLITICAL POETRY, I SUPPOSE.

I REMEMBER AGAIN ELLA
IN HER TIME,

SHE WAS SPEAKING ABOUT HER VIEW
AND WHAT SHE WAS THINKING.

I REMEMBER HER TALKING
ABOUT CONTENT

AND FEELING THE CONTENT WAS
NOT NECESSARILY AS IMPORTANT

AS SHOWING THE BEAUTY
IN SOMETHING.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE
A POWERFUL MESSAGE.

YOU HAVE
TO HAVE A POWERFUL POINT.

SOMETIMES HUMOR IS GOOD, TOO.

YOU KNOW, PATRICK GRAYBILL,
THE WAY HE DID THAT SONG

ABOUT THE PIANO,
THERE'S HUMOR IN THAT.

VALLI DESCRIBES HIS MEMORIES
LOOKING BACK

AND THE BRIGHT, WINDY MORNING
WITH THE WINDOW OPENING.

MEMORIES, ANGER, HUMOR,
OPPRESSION--

THERE'S A VARIETY OF THEMES
THAT YOU CAN FIND,

BUT IT'S NOT LIMITED.

IT DOESN'T HAVE TO STOP THERE.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT'S GOING,
BUT THERE ARE A LOT

OF OTHER THINGS TO EXPLORE
WITHIN IT.

YES. PROBABLY, OF COURSE,
BACKGROUND HAS A LOT

TO DO WITH HER WORK,
AND WHO PEOPLE ARE

DETERMINES WHAT SORT OF POETRY
THEY PRODUCE.

THAT OPPRESSION IS ENOUGH
THAT PEOPLE--

TO EXPRESS THEMSELVES,
AND MAYBE PEOPLE PERHAPS

ARE NOT OPPRESSED ENOUGH
TO CREATE MORE POETRY NOW.

MAYBE THAT IS WHY
THERE IS A LACK OF IT.

OH, I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THAT.

WELL...

STRONGER IN ASL THAN IN ENGLISH,
SO TO EXPLAIN THAT,

I FEEL, CAN YOU EXPRESS THAT
IF YOU'RE IN ASL,

IF YOU'RE STRONGER IN ENGLISH,
THAT'S YOUR FIRST LANGUAGE?

I'M NOT SURE
I WOULD SAY THAT. NO.

YES. I CAN SAY THAT
MARCEL MARCEAU TAUGHT ME

HOW TO BREATHE ON STAGE

BECAUSE, OF COURSE,
I COULD NOT HEAR MYSELF,

AND HE SAID, "PEOPLE
ALL THE WAY IN THE BACK

CAN HEAR YOU BREATHE."

THAT WAS NEWS TO ME.
I HAD NO IDEA.

SAID, "BREATHING
IS VERY IMPORTANT

IN THE PERFORMANCE ASPECT
OF MIME."

LIKE, IF YOU FIND A DYING BIRD
AND YOU HOLD IT IN YOUR HAND,

PEOPLE CAN HEAR YOU BREATHE,
SO IF YOU'RE PANTING

WHILE YOU ARE PERFORMING,
IT DOESN'T REALLY FIT

WITH THE SUBJECT
OF WHAT YOU ARE DOING.

AS THE BIRD IS DYING,
YOU NEED TO CONNECT TO THAT

WITH YOUR BREATH.

SLOWLY THE BIRD DIES.

DID YOU HEAR ME BREATHING?
COULD YOU HEAR IT?

THE EXHALATION I WAS DOING
THE SAME TIME THE BIRD EXPIRED.

THE BIRD IS BREATHING
SLOWER AND SLOWER.

WERE YOU ABLE TO HEAR THAT?

THAT'S HOW MARCEAU
EXPLAINED IT TO ME,

THAT THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE
NEED TO HEAR,

AND I KNOW THAT BREATHING
IS VERY IMPORTANT

IN ANY KIND OF ACTING.

BREATHING IN PERFORMING
ASL POETRY,

I THINK ABOUT
MY BREATHING, ALSO,

OR READING OR IMPROVISATION.

BREATHING IS RELATED TO MUSIC.
BREATHING IS MOST IMPORTANT.

I WAS TAUGHT THAT
ABOUT BREATHING.

"This project is supported by a Digitizing Hidden Collections grant from the Council on Library and Information Resources (CLIR). The grant program is made possible by funding from the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation."

Title supplied by cataloger

Heart of the hydrogen jukebox