Detail View: Deaf Studies, Culture, and History Archives: What is ASL literature, anyway?

ds_0101_whatisasl_cap_01.mp4

ds_0101_whatisasl_cap_01.mp4

What is ASL literature, anyway?

American Sign Language literature

Deaf, Writings of the, American

Deaf, Theater for the

Deaf Poetry

ASL poetry

Dr. Barbara Kannapel moderates a lively panel discussion of the definition of literature. Different viewpoints are offered-for example, Bonnie suggests a framework of two strands of literature-Deaf Literature (written format) and Sign Language Literature with subcategories within each. Gil Eastman describes two different types of theatre or drama such as Theatre of the Deaf/Theatre for the Deaf, which differ in performer composition and audience. Clayton Valli believes this construct doesn't work for poetry, as it plays with language, and prefers the term ASL poetry; not poetry of/for the Deaf. Lynn Jacobowitz describes her experience writing plays and would like to create Deaf-centered ASL plays that reflects the Deaf experience. She will be videotaping kindergarten Deaf children signing stories to expose them to ASL literature. Sam Supalla explains that Deaf literature and ASL literature are two separate bodies of work and are taught as separate classes. The problem with the term Deaf literature is it doesn't give equal weight to Sign Language literature and is missing that part. There is some discussion of Black Literature, African American Studies, Women's Studies, Native American Studies and whether these constructs fit the Deaf community's definition. Valli suggests looking into these programs to see if their rubrics could be adapted. Bernard Bragg then suggests using a big 'D' Deaf Literature and Sign Language Studies. He agrees with Bonnie that focusing on ASL literature is too limiting--doesn't take into account Deaf culture, history, beliefs, etc. Sam suggests the categories Deaf Studies and Sign Language Studies with subcategories of literature under each. At the end, all agreed more discussion on these concepts is needed to further clarify the distinctions of literature.

National Technical Institute for the Deaf

Rochester Institute of Technology - RIT Libraries - RIT Archive Collections

Kramer, Bonnie

Jacobowitz, Lynn

Supalla, Samuel James, 1957-

Valli, Clayton

Eastman, Gilbert C.

Bragg, Bernard, 1928-2018

1991

2018

moving image

mp4

VHS

59 minutes

American Sign Language

English

RITDSA.0101

Sculptures in the Air: An Accessible Online Video Repository of the American Sign Language (ASL) Poetry and Literature Collections

Karen Christie ASL Literature Collection

2018-2019 CLIR Grant-ASL Poetry and Literature

https://albert.rit.edu/record=b3959081

https://archivesspace.rit.edu/repositories/2/resources/889

New York - Rochester

Henrietta Campus

RIT Libraries makes materials from its collections available for educational and research purposes pursuant to U.S. Copyright Law. You are free to use this Item in any way that is permitted by the copyright and related rights legislation that applies to your use. It is your responsibility to obtain permission from the copyright holder to publish or reproduce images in print or electronic form.

CC BY-NC-ND: Attribution NonCommercial NoDerivatives 4.0 International

AND HE SAYS, LET'S OPEN WITH YOU, BERNARD. AND FIRST OF ALL, WE'RE GOING TO ADDRESS THE TERM "LITERATURE." WHAT IS IT? BERNARD SAYS, I THINK THAT YOU COULD SAY IN BRIEF THAT IT'S LIFE... BECAUSE TO FULLY AND COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND LIFE, WE NEED LITERATURE. LITERATURE REFLECTS LIFE TO US. IF YOU READ SOMETHING, A STORY, A PLAY, A POEM, AS YOU READ THESE PIECES, YOU MAKE A CONNECTION. IT REFLECTS MY EXPERIENCE. SO, LITERATURE COMMUNICATES EXPERIENCE TO US. NOW, IF YOU READ SOMETHING, YOU MAY SAY, "THAT REFLECTS WHAT I WENT THROUGH," OR YOU MAY HAVE THE OPPOSITE EXPERIENCE AND SAY, "I'VE NEVER GONE THROUGH THAT, "BUT I SURE DO LEARN ABOUT SOMEBODY ELSE'S WORLD VIEW AND THAT THEY WENT THROUGH THAT." AND SO LITERATURE ITSELF IS ABOUT LIFE. IS THAT CLEAR? DOES THAT FEEL LIKE A GOOD-ENOUGH EXPLANATION? CONNIE SAYS, THANK YOU. THAT'S WONDERFUL. AND NOW BONNIE. BONNIE SAYS, FINE. I'M READY. I HAVE MY OVERHEAD. LET'S SEE. I CAN STAND HERE. CAN YOU SEE ME ALL RIGHT HERE? IS THIS GOOD? SHOULD I MOVE OVER TO THE OTHER SIDE? WHERE WOULD IT BE BEST? GIL SAYS, I THINK IF YOU GO TO WHERE THE STAGE LIGHT IS ON THE SPOT, MAYBE YOU'LL BE ABLE TO BE SEEN BETTER. BONNIE SAYS, FINE. NOW, YOU'LL NOTICE THAT I HAVE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES HERE. THIS IS MY IDEA OF WHAT DEAF LIT IS. IF YOU LOOK AT RESEARCH ABOUT LITERATURE AND ASL, IT'S KIND OF CONFUSING. SO, WE DO HAVE SOME WRITTEN MATERIALS. SOME OTHER PEOPLE SAY IT SHOULD ONLY BE ABOUT AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE MATERIALS. SO THAT GETS A LITTLE MUDDY. SO I DECIDED THAT BOTH OF THESE CATEGORIES COULD BE SUBSUMED UNDER "DEAF LIT," AND THEN IT FALLS INTO TWO SEPARATE STRAINS. THERE ARE WRITTEN MATERIALS, AND THIS COULD BE WRITTEN IN ANY LANGUAGE. IT COULD BE ENGLISH, SPANISH, FRENCH, WHATEVER, BUT THESE ARE SPECIFICALLY WRITTEN MATERIALS-- BOOKS, PLAYS, POEMS, WHAT HAVE YOU. BUT UNDERSTAND THAT THIS MEANS THEY ARE WRITTEN AND CREATED BY DEAF PEOPLE. BY DEAF PEOPLE. NOW, THIS MEANS THAT THE STORY OR WHATEVER THE CONTENT IS DOES NOT NEED TO HAVE DEAF CHARACTERS IN IT. IT'S JUST ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THE AUTHOR, THE CREATOR IS DEAF. THEY MAY WRITE SOME SORT OF PIECE THAT SHOWS THE LIFE EXPERIENCE OF SOMEONE THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DEAFNESS, NOBODY DEAF. THEY JUST SEE SOMETHING, IT AFFECTS THEM, AND THEY WRITE. AND SO, OVERTLY THERE MAY NOT BE ANYTHING ABOUT DEAF PEOPLE IN IT, BUT, OF COURSE, THEY'RE INFORMED BY THEIR EXPERIENCES, YOU KNOW, AND SO MAYBE THEY WOULD EMPHASIZE THE VISUAL MORE, MAYBE THEY'D TALK A LOT ABOUT THE DESIGN OF THINGS OR COLORS, BUT THEY DE-EMPHASIZE THE AUDITORY COMPONENTS OF A STORY, AND SO IT WOULD INFORM THEIR EXPERIENCE IN WRITING THIS ALTHOUGH THERE'S NOTHING ABOUT IT IN THERE. NOW, THERE COULD BE HEARING PEOPLE WHO WRITE ABOUT DEAF PEOPLE, HEARING AUTHORS, THAT HAVE DEAF CHARACTERS IN THEIR WRITING. MAYBE THEY HAD DEAF PARENTS. IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY SHOULD NOT BE INVOLVED IN THIS CATEGORY. THEY ARE CREATING DEAF LIT EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE NOT DEAF. NOW, WHAT IF I'M DEAF AND I WRITE ABOUT DEAFNESS? THEN I BELONG IN BOTH CATEGORIES. IF YOU LOOK OVER TO THE RIGHT, WE TALK ABOUT SIGN-LANGUAGE MATERIALS, IN SIGN, SPECIFICALLY IN SIGN LANGUAGE. IT COULD BE ASL. IT COULD BE FRENCH SIGN LANGUAGE. IT COULD BE SPANISH SIGN LANGUAGE. ANY SIGN-LANGUAGE GENERATED MATERIALS. AND THEN THERE'S DIFFERENT CATEGORIES UNDER THAT. THERE'S TRANSLATION, FOR EXAMPLE. SO, THIS MORNING, BRUCE LEIBACH WAS TALKING ABOUT HIS WORK, ABOUT TEENAGERS, AND HE HAD THIS BEAUTIFUL PIECE OF WRITING, AND THAT WOULD GO UNDER "A," I THINK, AND "C." SO THAT FITS INTO TWO CATEGORIES. MAYBE YOU'LL BE CAPTIVATED BY A PARTICULAR PIECE OF WRITING, AND THEN YOU'LL TRANSLATE IT AND PERFORM IT INTO ASL. SO, THAT'S AN ASL-PERFORMED MATERIAL, BUT IT'S A TRANSLATION, AND THEREFORE IT FITS INTO TWO DIFFERENT CATEGORIES ALSO. "B" IS ADAPTATION. SO, THAT COULD BE A FAIRY TALE. THERE'S NOTHING ABOUT DEAFNESS IN IT, BUT WHAT YOU DO IS YOU CHANGE THE CHARACTERS SO THAT IT FITS WITHIN A SIGN-LANGUAGE REPRESENTATION. SO, "C" IS ORIGINAL WORK, NOT AN ADAPTATION, NOT A TRANSLATION. THIS IS ME AND SAYS SOMETHING THAT I'VE COME UP WITH. THERE'S NOTHING FROM A WRITTEN FORM WHATSOEVER. IT'S JUST AN ORIGINAL WORK THAT I CAME UP WITH. THAT'S WHERE I'M COMING FROM WITH ALL OF THIS. CONNIE SAYS, AND NOW WE'LL HEAR FROM GIL EASTMAN AND WHAT HE THINKS THE MEANING OF LITERATURE MIGHT BE. A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO, THERE WAS A PANEL DISCUSSION THAT TOOK PLACE... AND I WANTED TO GIVE THE IDEA ABOUT 4 CATEGORIES OF THEATER, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE CAME UP TO ME AFTERWARDS AND SAID I NEEDED TO EXPLAIN MORE ABOUT THAT. SO I'M TAKING THE STAGE RIGHT NOW TO DO THAT. NOW, THERE'S SOMETHING CALLED THEATER OF THE DEAF, AND I CAN THINK OF ONLY A FEW EXAMPLES OF THIS. IT WOULD BE GROUPS IN AMERICA, OF WHOM THERE ARE ONLY A FEW, LIKE NATIONAL THEATRE OF THE DEAF. CAN ANYBODY THINK OF ANY OTHERS THAT SAY "OF" IN THE TITLE? SOMEBODY MENTIONED ANOTHER THEATER OF THE DEAF. NEW YORK CITY THEATER OF... NOPE. NOPE TO BOTH OF THOSE SUGGESTIONS. NOPE. THERE'S NO "OF" IN THOSE TITLES. HOUSTON? I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THAT ONE. IT MIGHT BE. FTD. THAT'S RIGHT. FAIRMOUNT THEATRE OF THE DEAF. THAT'S RIGHT. THAT HAS "OF" IN THE NAME. ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHAT WE MEAN BY THIS, WHEN YOU SAY "OF," IT'S A GROUP OF DEAF PEOPLE WITH HEARING PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THE GROUP, TOO. AND THEY CREATE PIECES OF WORK FOR THE AUDIENCES WHO ARE PREDOMINANTLY HEARING, AND DEAF PEOPLE ARE, QUOTE, WELCOME. THEATER FOR THE DEAF, HOWEVER, OBVIOUSLY, IS A GROUP OF DEAF ACTORS WHO CREATE PIECES SPECIFICALLY FOR DEAF AUDIENCES, AND HEARING PEOPLE ARE, QUOTE, WELCOME. THOSE ARE TWO DISTINCT CATEGORIES. AM I CLEAR ABOUT THAT? NOW, WHAT NATIONAL THEATRE OF THE DEAF WOULD PROVIDE WOULD... WELL, FOR EXAMPLE, LET ME GO BACK. GALLAUDET UNIVERSITY, RIGHT, THEY HAVE A THEATER DEPARTMENT, THEATER ARTS DEPARTMENT, AND THEY PROVIDE PLAYS FOR HEARING, DEAF, WHATEVER, AND THEY ADAPT PLAYS FOR DEAF AUDIENCES, BUT THEIR SOURCE MATERIAL CAN BE ANYTHING. DEAF THEATER-- TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, I CAN'T EVEN NAME ONE YET, BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENS IS, QUITE OFTEN A...A DEAF CLUB OR A SMALL COMMUNITY OF DEAF PEOPLE DECIDE "WE ARE GOING TO CREATE A DEAF THEATER GROUP," AND THEN SOMEBODY WILL WRITE A PLAY, AND EVERYBODY IN IT IS DEAF, DEAF CHARACTERS. IT'S CREATED IN SIGN LANGUAGE. AND THAT WOULD BE DEAF THEATER. BUT I DON'T KNOW MANY OF THOSE. SO, THEATER... YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT "HAMLET," YOU KNOW, THAT IS OBVIOUSLY A PLAY WRITTEN BY A HEARING PERSON, AND OFTEN PEOPLE WILL TRANSLATE THAT INTO SIGN LANGUAGE, AND THAT DOESN'T MEAN WHETHER IT'S ACTORS WHO ARE DEAF OR HEARING. THEY'RE DOING AN ADAPTATION OF THIS, BUT THEY'RE PUTTING IT INTO SIGN LANGUAGE, AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DEAF FOLKS, DEAF CHARACTERS, WHATEVER. IT'S JUST A SKILLFUL REPRESENTATION AND BRINGING FORWARD OF A SHAKESPEAREAN PLAY IN A TRANSLATION. THANK YOU, CONNIE SAYS. AND SO, UH...LET'S SEE. CLAYTON, WOULD YOU LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THE SYSTEM YOU HAVE OF DELINEATING WHAT DIFFERENT VIEWS OF LITERATURE MIGHT MEAN? CLAYTON SAYS... CAN EVERYBODY SEE ME OK WITH THAT OVERHEAD UP THERE? SO, I WATCHED GIL'S DESCRIPTION AND BONNIE'S. FIRST OF ALL, CAN EVERYBODY SEE ME ALL RIGHT? SHOULD I STAND OVER THERE? OK, I'LL GO OVER THERE. OK. THIS LOOKS AT THEATER, AND THAT LOOKS LIKE A PRETTY GOOD DEFINITION TO ME. IT'S DIVIDED INTO 4 CATEGORIES, AND I AGREE WITH THAT, BUT FOR ME, I'M LOOKING SPECIFICALLY AT POETRY, AND POETRY DOESN'T WORK WITH THIS PARTICULAR DELINEATION. THEATER LOOKS AT LANGUAGE AND CULTURE SPECIFICALLY, AND POETRY IS SPECIFICALLY AND SOLELY FOCUSED ON PLAYING WITH THE LANGUAGE AND CRAFTING IT. SO, YES, THERE ARE CULTURAL OVERLAYS, OF COURSE, THAT ARE IMPLICIT WITHIN A LANGUAGE. BUT I FEEL THAT WE SHOULD DEAL WITH THE FACT THAT IT'S POETRY CREATED IN ASL AND CALL IT ASL POETRY, AND IT'S NOT POETRY OF THE DEAF OR FOR THE DEAF OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. IT'S SPECIFICALLY ASL POETRY. AND THAT'S MY FEELING ABOUT THAT. CONNIE SAYS, MAYBE WE NEED TO BRING THE LIGHTS UP A LITTLE BIT. PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE LIGHTS. FACES ARE DARK, IT SEEMS. CAN WE BRING UP THE LIGHTS A LITTLE, PLEASE? LYNN SAYS, WOW. I'M BLINDED NOW. OK. I WANT TO CLARIFY WHAT CLAYTON JUST SAID AND, UH, THAT OVERHEAD. NOW, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER A PLAY THAT BERNARD BRAGG HAD WRITTEN A LONG TIME AGO CALLED "TALES FROM A CLUB ROOM." WHICH CATEGORY WOULD THAT FIT IN? IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S DEAF THEATER, RIGHT? BECAUSE IT'S FOR DEAF AUDIENCES. I WROTE A PLAY A WHILE BACK, AND NTD HAD ASKED ME TO WRITE IT, AND THEY SAID, "WRITE IT SPECIFICALLY FOR HEARING AUDIENCES," AND I HAD A LOT OF DIFFICULTY WITH THAT, TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH. I HAVE NO HEARING EXPERIENCE WITHIN MY LIFE. AND I WENT AHEAD AND WROTE IT. I USED MY MOTHER'S EXPERIENCES AND MINE. I PUT THEM TOGETHER, AND I CRAFTED THIS PLAY, AND IT TURNED OUT PRETTY WELL. BUT I REALLY FELT THE NEED AND THE URGE TO GO BACK TO DEAF-CENTERED ASL PLAYS. I REALLY WANTED TO DO THAT, BECAUSE I WANTED TO WRITE A PLAY THAT REFLECTED MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES, MY CHILDHOOD. AND THEN I WROTE A PLAY IN COLLABORATION WITH OTHERS CALLED "OH, STOP! OH, STOP!" THAT WAS BACK IN 1981. IT WAS A FULL-LENGTH PLAY, AND IT WAS ABOUT THE SPIRIT OF THE SCHOOLS FOR THE DEAF WHEN YOU WEREN'T ALLOWED TO SIGN AND WHEN IT MORE THE ORALIST PARADIGM OF EDUCATION. SO, THAT WAS FOR DEAF PEOPLE. THERE ARE A LOT OF PLAYS, A LOT OF PERFORMANCES WRITTEN BY AND FOR DEAF PEOPLE. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT. SAM SAYS... SO...THE TITLE OF THIS PANEL IS "ASL LITERATURE: WHAT IS IT ANYWAY?" WHICH I FIND INTERESTING. BUT WHEN I LOOK AT ASL LITERATURE, I MEAN, OK. ASL LITERATURE, AND I SEE ALL THESE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES-- DEAF LITERATURE, ASL LITERATURE, WHATEVER-- AND SO I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO NOT FORGET THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ASL. IT'S THE LANGUAGE, AND YOU CAN'T ESCAPE THAT. THE IDEA IS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ASL. EVERYTHING ABOUT IT JUST REVOLVES AROUND THE USE OF ASL. SO IT CAN BE IN STORIES, IN POEMS, IN PLAYS, WHAT HAVE YOU. IT ALL REVOLVES AROUND ASL. SO YOU HAVE TO FOCUS ON THAT. THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, THAT YOU CAN'T NEGATE THE IMPORTANCE OF ASL IN THIS DISCUSSION. GIL SAYS, I'M SORRY. I JUST HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT WHEN I SAW THE TITLE OF THIS PANEL, "ASL LIT: WHAT IS IT ANYWAY?" I DON'T REALLY LIKE THE TONE OF THAT. I DID NOT LIKE THE TITLE. IT TOOK ME ABACK. AND I JUST FELT I HAD TO LET YOU KNOW THAT. CONNIE SAYS, YEAH, "ASL: WHAT IS IT ANYWAY?" I THINK THAT'S A HEARING TITLE. I THINK SOMEBODY HEARING MUST HAVE COME UP WITH THAT. YEAH, BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO BE IN CONFLICT WITH OUR DEAF CULTURE, TO HAVE COME UP WITH A TITLE THAT HAD THAT KIND OF TONE TO IT. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. BUT ANYWAY... CONNIE IS CONTINUING WHERE THE INTERPRETER CAN FINALLY SEE HER. I WENT TO A TALK A COUPLE OF NIGHTS AGO THAT I'D LIKE YOU GUYS TO RESPOND TO IF YOU COULD. LYNN, IF YOU COULD TALK ABOUT THAT. LYNN'S TALKING ABOUT... AND SAYS, THE FORMS, THE BOOK, THE CHARACTERS, THE WRITING, WHATEVER, THAT'S WRITTEN LITERATURE, BUT ASL LITERATURE WOULD BE ON THE HANDS AND PLAYING AROUND WITH THE LANGUAGE, THE WAY CLAYTON JUST MENTIONED, AND THE WAY THAT WE WOULD PRESERVE THAT WOULD BE ON DISKS, ON DVD's OR VHS OR WHATEVER, AND THAT'S THE WAY WE WOULD PRESERVE THOSE MATERIALS. CLAYTON SAYS, THAT'S NOT THE SAME. WE'RE NOT REALLY TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING, BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE "LITERATURE" AS THE UMBRELLA TERM, IT'S NOT THE SAME. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO SEPARATE CATEGORIES THAT ARE NOT SUBSUMED UNDER THE SAME UMBRELLA TERM. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THINGS THAT HAVE NO RELATIONSHIP AT THEIR POINT OF IMPETUS AT ALL. CONNIE SAYS, PERHAPS YOU COULD DESCRIBE A LITTLE BIT MORE OF WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM WITH THIS, CLAYTON. CLAYTON SAYS, WELL, I RELATED WHAT LYNN WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT. SHE SAID THAT THERE'S ASL LIT, THERE'S WRITTEN LIT, AND I'M...I REALLY HAVE TO THINK TWICE ABOUT ALL THIS, ESPECIALLY IN LIGHT OF WHAT GIL SAID, BECAUSE "LITERATURE" IS A VERY BROAD TERM, RIGHT? SO, BONNIE HAS THIS CONSTRUCT OF HAVING LIT BE AT THE TOP, AND THEN THESE SEPARATIONS BEING ON TWO STREAMS ON EITHER SIDE, WHICH I AGREE WITH, WHETHER IT'S POETRY OR THEATER OR ANY OTHER KIND OF ART. ALL OF THEM COULD FIT NEATLY INTO SOME OF THESE CATEGORIES ON EITHER SIDE. AND SO I DO SAY THAT I BUY INTO BONNIE'S PARTICULAR WAY OF SHOWING THIS. LYNN SAYS, WELL, I THINK THE PROBLEM IS THAT THERE HASN'T BEEN A LOT OF RESEARCH DONE ABOUT THIS SO FAR. SO, OF COURSE, WE'RE COMING UP WITH THESE IDEAS, AND EVERYTHING'S GOING TO BE TWEAKED AS TIME GOES ON. SO I DO LIKE BONNIE'S PERSPECTIVE. I LIKE VERY MUCH THAT SHE'S STARTED US OFF IN THIS PARTICULAR WAY. BERNARD SAID, I WANT TO ASK SAM A LITTLE BIT MORE PERSONALLY, BECAUSE IT'S VERY INTERESTING. THERE'S ALL THESE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES THAT WE CAN TEASE OUT, BUT IT'S CONFUSING. I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THINGS A LOT EASIER SO THAT IF THERE WERE ACADEMIC RESEARCHERS OR ACADEMIC DEPARTMENTS LOOKING AT THIS, THEY WOULD SEE THAT IT'S VALIDATED. WE HAVE TO NOTE THAT THERE IS AN ORAL COMPONENT TO LITERATURE AS WELL. SO, BONNIE HAS THESE IDEAS, AND I THINK THAT WORKS VERY WELL. BUT I HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF TREPIDATION, BECAUSE SOME THINGS WILL COME UP, AND WHERE WILL WE PUT THEM? IF SOMETHING IS ASL, IT MIGHT GO ON ONE SIDE OR ANOTHER. BUT, SAM, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS IN TERMS OF LITERATURE? SAM SAYS, WELL... DEAF LITERATURE... ONE PART CAN BE... IT CAN BE ANY SIGN LANGUAGE. IT COULD BE ANYTHING LIKE THAT. I THINK DEAF LITERATURE AND ASL LITERATURE NEED TO STAY SEPARATE. I REALLY DO. HERE I AM, COMING TO AN ASL LIT CONFERENCE, AND I DON'T SEE ANY... ANY MENTION OR ANY DISCUSSION ABOUT ASL LIT SPECIFICALLY, AND IT SEEMS LIKE THEY'RE FREE-FLOWING. BUT IF WE'RE LOOKING AT ACADEMIC COURSES AND CURRICULUM, YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE GOALS OF THOSE ARE, AND DEAF LIT AND ASL WOULD BE DIFFERENT. IF SOME THINGS ARE WRITTEN MATERIAL, THEN ASL CONFOUNDS THAT DEFINITION. WHERE IS THE SPIRIT OF THE ORAL TRADITION IN THAT? WHERE IS THE LINEAGE? I THINK THAT WE NEED TO BE REALLY CAREFUL ABOUT THAT. WE MUST DEAL WITH THE FACT THAT LANGUAGES EVOLVE. AND SO ASL LITERATURE IS TIED TO OTHER TRADITIONS, TOO, AND I...I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE ADDRESS THE ORAL TRADITION, AND I DON'T SEE THIS ANYWHERE. I DON'T SEE HOW THAT FITS INTO EITHER OF THESE CATEGORIES OR IF IT PUTS ONE CATEGORY MAYBE HIGHER UP IN THE HIERARCHY OF WHEN DO WE DISCUSS THESE IN TERMS OF ITS IMPORTANCE. GIL SAYS, BERNARD BRAGG MISCHARACTERIZED ME. I WANT TO SAY THIS AGAIN. I WAS TALKING ABOUT THESE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES OF THEATER, AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LITERATURE, AND I REALIZE THAT REALLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IS DRAMA, OK? AND DRAMA IS EVEN ANOTHER SEPARATE THING. WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WRITTEN OR WHETHER IT'S PERFORMED OR WHATEVER, IT'S UNDER "DRAMA." SO, THESE CATEGORIES THAT ARE PUT UP HERE ARE DRAMA, BUT, FOR EXAMPLE, "CHILDREN OF A LESSER GOD," OK, WHERE WOULD THAT GO? THAT'S ON THE LEFT-HAND SIDE, AUDIENCE LEFT. "SIGN ME ALICE" WOULD BE OVER ON THE RIGHT IN TERMS OF AN ASL PLAY. SO, "TALES FROM A CLUB ROOM," THAT BERNARD WROTE, WOULD GO INTO ANOTHER CATEGORY, TOO. SO THERE'S DIFFERENT WAYS THAT THE PLAYS WILL FALL OUT IN TERMS OF THIS CONSTRUCT. BERNARD SAYS, SHOULD I GO NOW? DO YOU WANT ME TO CEDE THE FLOOR? CLAYTON SAYS... "DEAF LIT," WHEN I SEE THAT, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE THIS...THESE DIFFERENT STRAINS OF MEANING FOR WHAT IT MEANS BECAUSE WE ARE DEALING WITH TWO LANGUAGES. WE'RE ALL BILINGUAL. WE GREW UP THAT WAY. WE HAD TWO LANGUAGES GROWING UP, AND SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE DO PUT THESE IN DIFFERENT AREAS, BECAUSE WE DO HAVE THE ENGLISH SIDE OF THE EQUATION AND THE ASL SIDE. I THINK STARTING WITH A BROAD TITLE AND THEN TAKING IT INTO EITHER STREAM ON EITHER SIDE IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO MAINTAIN. BONNIE SAYS, I THINK THAT IS A GREAT POINT. WE DO HAVE TO EMPHASIZE THE FACT THAT WE ARE A BILINGUAL PEOPLE AND THAT WE GREW UP WITH ENGLISH AND ASL. BUT ASL LIT... I THINK IF WE JUST TALK ABOUT IT THAT WAY, IT LIMITS US, AND IT FUNNELS US INTO JUST ONE PARTICULAR STRAIN OF THINKING AND CREATIVITY. I MEAN, WE DO HAVE THINGS WRITTEN IN ENGLISH. WE HAVE CREATED MATERIALS IN A WRITTEN FORMAT. YOU GO TO A LIBRARY, THERE'S BOOKS, THERE'S VIDEOS, EVERYTHING. AND IF YOU OPEN IT UP TO INCLUDE DEAF LIT AND ASL LIT, THERE WILL BE A LOT MORE THERE. ASL LIT MIGHT SEEM VERY LIMITING, AND THEN YOU'D ALSO HAVE TWO DIFFERENT SECTIONS TO EVEN LOOK UNDER. I DON'T THINK DEAF PEOPLE GET ENOUGH CREDIT IN THE COMMUNITY FOR HAVING THE FACILITY IN BOTH LANGUAGES, AND THAT'S WHY I FEEL LIKE HAVING BOTH THESE STRAINS BUT UNDER ONE CATEGORY MAKES IT A LOT CLEARER. BERNARD SAYS, I THINK THAT I CAN TAKE ALL THESE DIFFERENCES OF OPINION AND MAYBE PUT THEM IN... INTO ONE PARTICULAR QUILT. CLAYTON SEEMS TO RELATE TO BONNIE'S THINKING, AND I BELIEVE THAT GIL IS PART OF THIS, TOO, AND I THINK EVERYBODY AGREES TO SOME EXTENT OR ANOTHER. DRAMA, OF COURSE, GOES INTO A PARTICULAR CATEGORY, AND THEN THE WHOLE THING ABOUT THEATER OF THE DEAF, WHATEVER, CAN GO UNDER THE "DEAF" RUBRIC. BUT I THINK WE HAVE A PROBLEM HERE BECAUSE OF SAM. I WANT TO KNOW WHERE SAM STANDS ON THIS, BECAUSE HE IS LOOKING AT SOMETHING VERY INTERESTING. IF I UNDERSTAND WHERE SAM IS COMING FROM, YOUR VERY EXCITING RESEARCH AND YOUR WORK THAT YOU'RE DOING, UM, IS REALLY GROUNDBREAKING AND EXCITING. AND HE HAS COINED THE TERM "SIGN LANGUAGE STUDIES," AND THAT'S THE FIELD OF LANGUAGE STUDY THAT HE'S ENGAGED WITH. AND SO, THAT LOOKS NOT JUST AT ASL, BUT SIGN LANGUAGE IN GENERAL. SO, SAM, WOULD YOU MIND EXPLAINING A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT? SO, TELL US WHAT'S GOING ON, YOUR REASONING FOR CALLING SOMETHING SIGN LANGUAGE STUDIES. BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE, PERHAPS, UH... WE CAN INFLUENCE SAM'S THINKING A LITTLE BIT AND MAYBE MOVE HIM A LITTLE BIT MORE OVER TO THE "ASL LIT" PART OF THIS CONTINUUM. UH, THE DRAMA FROM GIL AND THE DIFFERENT WAYS THAT BONNIE HAS FRAMED THIS, MAYBE WE CAN BRING THESE ALL TOGETHER. WE WANT TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE "DEAF LIT" MAKES SENSE AND THAT THEN WE CAN HAVE IT DIVERSIFY INTO ALL OF THE DIFFERENT GENRES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. YOU KNOW, IF WE TALK ABOUT SOMETHING "OF THE DEAF," "OF THE DEAF," PERIOD, THEN YOU GO INTO ALL THE DIFFERENT SECTIONS THAT MIGHT WORK UNDER THAT CATEGORY. IS THAT ALL RIGHT, CONNIE, IF I OFFER THE FLOOR OVER TO SAM TO EXPLAIN WHAT HE'S UP TO THESE DAYS? CONNIE SAYS, I THINK THAT'S FINE. YEAH, THAT'S FINE. GO AHEAD. AND SAM SAYS, WELL, I'M GONNA ANSWER IT, BUT I'M GONNA ANSWER IT GOING THE LONG WAY AROUND THE BLOCK. IS THERE OR IS THERE NOT SOMETHING CALLED "BLACK LITERATURE"? RIGHT? NOW, OBVIOUSLY...I MEAN, I HAVEN'T TAKEN IT MYSELF, BUT WE DO KNOW THERE'S ENGLISH LITERATURE, EMPHASIS ON THE "ENGLISH," WHICH IS THE LANGUAGE, BUT BLACK LITERATURE DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE A LANGUAGE. IT'S ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE, RIGHT? HOW WOULD YOU GO FURTHER INTO CATEGORIZING THAT? SO, FROM WHERE I STAND, IT LOOKS LIKE, TO ME, WE ARE TRYING TO HAVE ALL THESE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES. THERE'S ENGLISH, THERE'S FRENCH, WHATEVER, THERE'S BLACK LITERATURE, ALL THESE THINGS, BUT IT MIGHT MEAN DIFFERENT THINGS. AND WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE FIT IN THESE OTHER CONSTRUCTS, AND THAT CONCERNS ME. SO, HERE'S THE REASONING FOR WHAT I'M DOING AND HOW I LOOK AT THIS. "DEAF LIT"...FOR ME, I DON'T THINK... THAT DOESN'T CAPTURE IT, BECAUSE WHERE IS THE LANGUAGE PART? LIKE I SAID, THAT'S WHAT MAKES DEAF PEOPLE UNIQUE. THAT'S WHAT CAUSES THIS BIFURCATION OF CATEGORIES, IS BECAUSE THE LANGUAGE IS DIFFERENT, THE COMMUNICATION IS DIFFERENT, AND SO I THINK ASL IS WHAT MAKES DEAF PEOPLE UNIQUE, AND IT'S NOT JUST CULTURE, IT'S OUR LANGUAGE. THE CULTURE, OF COURSE, GROWS, AND IT'S, OF COURSE, INTERTWINED WITH THE LANGUAGE, BUT THE HEAVIEST WEIGHT IN THIS CONVERSATION SHOULD ALWAYS BE FOCUSED ON THE LANGUAGE. AND SO WHERE WE PUT ASL, AT THE TOP OR THE BOTTOM, I DON'T KNOW, BUT AS PER YOUR QUESTION, I DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE AN ANSWER. I MEAN, WE REALLY NEED TO TALK ABOUT ASL LIT, LIKE, WHAT IS IT? WHY IS IT OFF IN THE WOODS SOMEWHERE? YOU KNOW, PEOPLE COME TO A DEAF LITERATURE CONFERENCE, THEY COME TO A PANEL. WHAT IS DEAF LITERATURE ANYWAY? THEY WANT TO KNOW WHAT ASL LIT IS. SO, IS IT JUST ONE THING? ASL LITERATURE AND ITS RELATIONSHIP TO OTHER ASPECTS OF OTHER KINDS OF LITERATURE... DOES IT HAVE THE SAME RELATIONSHIP OR NOT? CONNIE SAYS, WELL... PERHAPS WE CAN FOCUS OUR DISCUSSION NOW JUST ON LITERATURE. LET'S CLARIFY THAT. BECAUSE DEAF LITERATURE AND OTHER SORTS OF LITERATURE, MAYBE THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO BE FOCUSING OUR ENERGIES RIGHT NOW. SO...WE TALK ABOUT WHETHER WE AGREE WITH THAT? OK. BERNARD, YOU DON'T WANT TO ADDRESS THIS? IS THERE SOMEBODY ELSE WHO WANTS TO? LYNN SAYS, I CAN RESPOND TO BOTH OF THESE CONCERNS. OK. ASL LIT IS ABOUT ASL. IT'S ABOUT AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE. THAT'S RIGHT. AND OF COURSE, THERE IS TRANSLATIONS IN THEATER, AND THERE'S ALL THESE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES AND ALL THE THINGS WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT AND ALL THESE STUDIES, BUT DEAF STUDIES... LIKE, THERE'S BLACK STUDIES, AND THERE'S BLACK HISTORY, AND THERE'S BLACK LITERATURE, I ASSUME. I'M AGREEING WITH YOU, SAM. SAM SAYS, IT WAS A LITTLE AWKWARD THE WAY I PUT IT. LYNN SAYS, OH, SOMEBODY OUT THERE HAS AN ANSWER. THEY COULD ADDRESS THIS LATER MAYBE. BUT I'M JUST SAYING THAT WE NEED TO FOCUS SPECIFICALLY ON ASL LIT, AND THEN, FROM UNDER THERE, WE WOULD HAVE A LOT MORE CATEGORIES. THERE'S A LOT OF PRACTICES, EXPERIMENTATION, AND THERE'S A WEALTH OF INFORMATION IN THERE. AND SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE LINGUISTICS AND THE PLAY WITH THAT... I MEAN, WE GROW UP, WE HAD NO EXPOSURE TO THIS. I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE PROVIDE THIS EXPOSURE ONCE WE HAVE THESE DEFINITIONS AND DEVELOP THE REASONING BEHIND OUR CATEGORIES, TAKE IT FORWARD THAT WAY. CONNIE SAYS... SO, HOWARD UNIVERSITY IN WASHINGTON, D.C... SOMEBODY THERE ENVISIONED HAVING A BLACK STUDIES MAJOR OR A BLACK STUDIES DEPARTMENT, BUT NOBODY WAS LOOKING AT WHAT THE LANGUAGE WAS WITH EVERYTHING. LATER ON, THEY CALLED IT AFRICAN AMERICAN STUDIES OR AFRO AMERICAN STUDIES. BUT, UH...BUT THEY HAVE AFRO AMERICAN HISTORY AND LITERATURE AND WHAT HAVE YOU. IS THERE WOMEN STUDIES? THERE'S WOMEN STUDIES AND WOMEN HISTORY AND WOMEN'S LIT. AND THERE'S ALL THESE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES OF OTHER UNDERSERVED POPULATIONS. AND SO I THINK THAT WE ARE TRYING TO RECOGNIZE OTHER GROUPS THAT HAVE DONE THE SAME THING WITH PUTTING "STUDIES" AFTER THE NAME OF THE GROUP. UH, BUT NOW WE'RE ADDING THE OTHER FLY IN THE OINTMENT. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LANGUAGE, AND THAT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. SO, MAYBE WE CAN ALL ADDRESS THAT. BERNARD SAYS, WE NEED TO COME BACK TO WHAT I SAID BEFORE IN THE VERY BEGINNING, ABOUT WHAT LITERATURE IS AND THAT IT'S LIFE. SO, OBVIOUSLY, THERE IS WRITTEN LITERATURE, THERE ARE WRITTEN MATERIALS, AND AS WELL, THERE'S THE ORAL TRADITION OF OUR MATERIALS. NOW BEFORE, BACK IN THE DAY, SOMETHING WASN'T CONSIDERED LITERATURE UNLESS IT WAS WRITTEN DOWN. BUT SLOWLY THINGS ARE STARTING TO CHANGE. AND I UNDERSTAND LITERATURE, WRITTEN AND ORAL, BEING UNDER THE RUBRIC OF THAT UMBRELLA TERM THE WAY BONNIE HAS IT. OK. SO, WITH THAT IN MIND... I'M A LITTLE NERVOUS ABOUT SAYING THIS. OK. BLACK LIT, AS CONNIE SAID, OK, IS AFRICAN AMERICAN LITERATURE NOW. BUT...WE...MAYBE WE COULD USE THE TERM "BIG-D DEAF LIT," NOT THE LITTLE "d," BUT WE WOULD SPELL IT WITH A BIG "D." DEAF LIT. DEAF LITERATURE. BECAUSE I THINK IT REFERS TO DEAF PEOPLE, RIGHT? SO, ASL IS AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE. ALL RIGHT, WE ALL UNDERSTAND IT'S AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE. BUT THAT'S NOT REALLY THE TOTALITY OF WHAT WE ARE AND WHAT WE'RE ABOUT. WE'RE NOT JUST ABOUT OUR LANGUAGE. WE'RE ABOUT MORE THAN THAT. WE'RE A CULTURE. WE HAVE A HISTORY. WE HAVE HERITAGE. WE HAVE ALL THESE THINGS. IF WE ONLY FOCUS ON ONE THING-- AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE-- THAT NEGATES ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT MAKE US WHO WE ARE. SO, IF WE WERE TO CHANGE IT TO "ASL LIT," YOU'RE RIGHT. BONNIE SAID BEFORE THAT WOULD BE TOO LIMITING, IT WOULD FOCUS JUST ON THE LANGUAGE AND NONE OF THE OTHER THINGS INVOLVED IN IT. BUT YOU COULD ADD UNDER THAT... GIVE A BROAD EXAMPLE OF, LIKE, WHO WE ARE, SOMETHING THAT REALLY RESONATES AND SAYS WHO WE ARE AS PEOPLE. WHAT REPRESENTS US? WE ARE MORE THAN JUST THE LANGUAGE WE USE. WE ARE A PEOPLE. AND SO WE ARE A PEOPLE WHO HAVE OUR OWN CULTURE AND OUR OWN HISTORY AND OUR OWN BELIEFS... AND THAT BROADENS OUT THE REPRESENTATIONS IN TERMS OF LITERATURE. SO, I THINK WE NEED TO KEEP THIS IN MIND, THAT IF WE WERE TO CALL THIS UMBRELLA TERM "DEAF LIT" WITH A CAPITAL "D," AND THEN "SIGN LANGUAGE STUDIES," OF COURSE, WOULD BE AN EVEN BIGGER UMBRELLA TERM WHICH COULD BREAK IT DOWN INTO OTHER TERMS, IT'S JUST A SUGGESTION THAT I HAVE TO FRAME IT DIFFERENTLY. GIL SAYS, WELL, I'VE MET SO MANY PEOPLE HERE, YOU KNOW, AND I'VE LEARNED SO MUCH DURING THIS TIME, AND I SEE A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT GROUPS THAT I'VE RUN INTO HERE. SO, AS SAM SAYS, SIGN LANGUAGE STUDIES. THEN I'VE MET SOME OTHER PEOPLE, LIKE BEN BAHAN, AND HE'S TALKING ABOUT USING THE TERM "DEAF STUDIES." SO NOW YOU HAVE TWO CAMPS THAT ARE ADDRESSING IT IN TWO DIFFERENT WAYS THAT WAY. SO, THE SAME AS "ASL LIT" AND "DEAF LIT." IT SEEMS LIKE THINGS HAVE ALREADY BEEN SET UP. WE ALREADY HAVE THESE TWO DIFFERENT GROUPS. AND NOW, IF WE TALK ABOUT "BIG-D DEAF LIT"-- YOU KNOW, AND ASL IS IN THAT, OF COURSE. I DO AGREE THAT THAT WOULD BE IN IT BECAUSE THAT INCLUDES ORAL FOLKS AND HARD-OF-HEARING FOLKS, AND THAT WIDENS THE SCOPE OF THE DEMOGRAPHIC YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. IT JUST GETS MORE COMPLICATED. CLAYTON SAYS... THERE'S ALL OF THESE DISPARATE VIEWS. AND THIS RELATES TO ATTITUDE AND POLITICS, AND THAT'S PROBLEMATIC. I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE BROAD SCOPE OF THE U.S. OR EUROPE OR WHEREVER AND LOOK AT THE PROGRAMS THAT ARE ALREADY OFFERED. SO, THERE'S SPANISH LITERATURE OR BLACK STUDIES OR... WELL, AS YOU SAID, AFRO AMERICAN STUDIES. I MEAN, THERE ARE THINGS ALREADY EXTENT OUT THERE. WHY DON'T WE JUST FOLLOW THE RUBRICS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN ESTABLISHED? I THINK WE CAN JUST FOLLOW THOSE. YOU KNOW, THERE'S NATIVE AMERICAN, THERE'S BLACK, WHAT HAVE YOU. WHY DON'T WE JUST FOLLOW THE COMMON UNDERSTANDING OF HOW OTHER THINGS ARE SET UP AND AVOID THE POLITICS AND THE ATTITUDE AND THE WRANGLING? I JUST DON'T THINK WE NEED TO GO THERE. AND SAM SAYS, LET ME JUST CLARIFY. I WANT TO GO BACK A BIT. IF WE CALL SOMETHING "DEAF STUDIES," THAT IS A REALLY MUCH LARGER, BROADER CATEGORY BECAUSE... SO, THE ASL LIT PART IS MISSING FROM THAT, AND YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I DIDN'T EXPLAIN IT VERY CLEARLY BEFORE. WE ALSO SAY "DEAF STUDIES" AS WELL AS "SIGN LANGUAGE STUDIES," SO IT'S EVEN MORE COMPLICATED THAN YOU EVEN KNEW, AND I'LL GET INTO THAT SOME OTHER TIME. BUT THIS WHOLE THING, I THINK, IS NOT REALLY WORTH TALKING ABOUT. THAT'S A WHOLE OTHER LINGUISTIC AND EDUCATIONAL CONSTRUCT. BUT WHAT I'D LIKE TO OFFER IS SOME COURSES THAT I'M PLANNING, ONE IN ASL LIT AND A DEAF LIT COURSE. AND THESE WOULD BE SEPARATE COURSES. THAT WOULD BE ONE WAY THAT YOU COULD TAKE CARE OF THIS, BECAUSE YOU HAVE DEAF LIT AS THE OVERARCHING THING, BUT I DON'T LIKE THAT. IT DOESN'T QUITE DO IT FOR ME. IT SKEWS THINGS ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, AND WE NEED TO GIVE EQUAL WEIGHT TO THE WRITTEN AND THE SIGNED MATERIALS. SO, IF YOU SAY "DEAF STUDIES" AS THE TERM, THEN YOU HAVE "LITERATURE" AS A TERM UNDER THAT. THEN YOU HAVE "CULTURE" AND "HISTORY" AND "EDUCATION" AS OTHER SEPARATE CATEGORIES, AND THEN UNDER THE "LITERATURE" CATEGORY, NO NAMES, NOT DEAF, NOT ANYTHING, JUST LITERATURE, THEN THAT GOES INTO THE TWO STREAMS OF "ASL" AND "DEAF." IS THAT CLEAR? SO, YOU START WITH AN EVEN HIGHER ORDER OF TAXONOMY. CONNIE SAYS, I'VE SEEN SOME HANDS OUT IN THE AUDIENCE. AND IF YOU ARE GOING TO ASK A QUESTION, I WOULD JUST ASK TO WHOM YOU'RE GOING TO ADDRESS IT, OR IF IT'S FOR EVERYBODY ON THE PANEL. AND MATTHEW WILL BE COPY-SIGNING FROM THE STAGE. THE QUESTION IS FOR SAM. I AM EXPERIENCING A BIG CONFLICT HERE. I AM A PLAYWRIGHT. AND TO ME, WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS THE CONTENT OF THE STORY. IF IT'S IN ASL FORM, HOW THE STORY IS COMMUNICATED, THAT'S FINE. THAT'S ONE EXAMPLE. AND I'VE WRITTEN PLAYS... I WROTE A PLAY ABOUT LAURENT CLERC. I WROTE THIS PLAY ABOUT HIM, AND WE TAPED IT... AND HIS RELATIONSHIP TO ALICE COGSWELL, AND THEN IT WAS TRANSLATED, AND IT WAS WRITTEN INTO ENGLISH. SO, IT WAS A DEAF LITERATURE PLAY, BUT IT FIT INTO BOTH CATEGORIES. CLERC. LAURENT CLERC. THAT'S WHAT THAT SIGN WAS. SAM SAYS, OH, LAST NIGHT. YES, WE SAW SOMEBODY... WE SAW THAT ONE. OK. FINE. YES, YOU'RE RIGHT. YOU'RE RIGHT. YEAH, I THINK IT REALLY DOES GO INTO BOTH CATEGORIES QUITE NICELY, ABSOLUTELY, AND THE REASON BEING THAT IT'S ASL LIT... AND THAT WOULD BE IF WE WERE JUST LOOKING AT THE LANGUAGE USED IN THE PLAY, AND I THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING HOW THAT WAS DONE, HOW YOU SHOWED CLERC SIGNING VERY DIFFERENTLY TO REFLECT THE HISTORICAL TIME IN WHICH HE WAS LIVING. THAT'S REALLY COOL. SO, THE PARTICULAR LANGUAGE USED WITHIN THE PLAY WOULD PUT IT IN ONE CATEGORY, BUT AS YOU SAID, IT'S DRAMA, IT'S DEAF LITERATURE, IT'S ABOUT THE DEAF EXPERIENCE IN THAT IN THE SAME PLAY. SO THE SAME PLAY COULD FIT WITHIN THAT. SO IT'S TWO DIFFERENT CATEGORIES. THAT'S MY RESPONSE. I'M AGREEING. RIGHT. BERNARD SAYS, YEAH, THE LIGHTS ARE GOING UP AND DOWN. I THINK WE NEED TO FIX THEM. BONNIE SAYS, THAT'S BETTER. ANOTHER QUESTION FROM THE AUDIENCE. ALL OF THIS WRANGLING BACK AND FORTH ABOUT LIT...WHATEVER. WHY NOT AMERICAN DEAF LITERATURE AS A TITLE? CONNIE SAYS, IS THAT QUESTION DIRECTED TO ANYBODY, ANYBODY IN PARTICULAR? SOMEBODY WANT TO TAKE IT? THE NEXT QUESTION IS, I'M WONDERING ABOUT WHY NOT JUST CALLING IT SIGN LANGUAGE LITERATURE? CONNIE SAYS, DOES ANYBODY WANT TO RESPOND TO THAT? THE QUESTION IS, IF I GO INTO A LIBRARY, THERE'S ALL DIFFERENT CLASSIFICATIONS THAT I CAN LOOK FOR. BUT IF I ASK FOR ASL LITERATURE, WHERE ARE THE BOOKS? WHERE AM I GONNA LOOK? UNDER JUST "LITERATURE," OR... YOU KNOW, I'D BE CONFOUNDED. IS THERE DEAF LITERATURE, OR THERE IS ANOTHER SECTION? IT WOULD BE VERY CONFUSING. LIKE, IN NEW YORK CITY, THERE'S A BIG BOOKSTORE, AND IF I WERE TO GO IN THERE, WHAT WOULD I LOOK UNDER? WHAT WOULD THE LABEL BE OF THAT PARTICULAR SECTION OF THE STORE? I THINK IT WOULD SAY "DEAF LIT" MAYBE OR... YOU KNOW, WOULD IT BE JUST A DEAF AREA? THERE'S ALL DIFFERENT CATEGORIES, AND I'D BE LOOKING ALL OVER THE PLACE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WOULD BE UNDER. WHY NOT "DEAF STUDIES"? THAT'S JUST AN EASIER CLASSIFICATION. CONNIE SAID, IS THAT A QUESTION OR A COMMENT? WAIT A MINUTE. ARE YOU MAKING A COMMENT, A SUGGESTION, AN IDEA? WHAT FORM IS THAT COMMENT? IT'S A QUESTION. OK, GO AHEAD. WHAT EXACTLY IS THE QUESTION? THIS QUESTION GOES TO SAM. SAM SAYS, YES? SAM SAYS, REMEMBER, IF THERE'S "LITERATURE," IF THERE'S "HISTORY," IF THERE'S "CULTURE," ALL THESE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES, AND "LINGUISTICS" UNDER A LARGER HEADING, IF YOU HAVE "LITERATURE," THEN YOU CAN SPLIT IT INTO "DEAF LIT" AND "ASL LIT." ACTUALLY, ASL AND DEAF ARE SEPARATE UNDER THE TERM OF "LITERATURE," WHICH IS ITSELF A SEPARATE CATEGORY WITH SEVERAL OTHERS UNDER "SIGN LANGUAGE STUDIES." THE QUESTION SAID, BUT UNDER "DEAF STUDIES"? UNDER "DEAF STUDIES" AS DIFFERENT CATEGORIES? IT'S SEPARATE? CONNIE'S INDICATING SOMEBODY IN THE AUDIENCE. THE QUESTION IS FOR CLAYTON. LAST NIGHT, EVERYBODY WAS TALKING ABOUT... THE IDEA OF ASL POETRY, AND SOME PEOPLE WERE SAYING THAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW IF IT WAS A PERFORMANCE OR IF IT WAS POETRY, AND AFTER A FEW DAYS OF THIS CONFERENCE, I WONDER WHAT YOUR VIEW IS. WHAT WOULD YOUR DEFINITION BE OF THE BOUNDARIES OF WHAT ASL POETRY MEANS? COULD YOU GIVE AN EXAMPLE? WOULD YOU CONSIDER FOLKLORE, STORYTELLING... OR WHERE DO YOU LAND ALL THIS? CLAYTON SAYS... 1987 WAS THE FIRST NATIONAL DEAF POETRY CONFERENCE RIGHT HERE, AND WE ALL GOT TOGETHER, AND I LEARNED SO MUCH. WE ALL LEARNED A LOT FROM EACH OTHER. IT WAS A GREAT INFUSION. AND I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THINGS EVER SINCE, AND I THINK IT'S REALLY ABOUT THE LANGUAGE. I MEAN, IT'S THE GAME OF PLAYING WITH THE LANGUAGE AND EXPRESSING YOURSELF IN ASL POETRY. IT'S FIRST AND FOREMOST ALWAYS THE LANGUAGE. BUT I'M SEEING HOW MOVING THINGS INTO DIFFERENT CATEGORIES IS HELPFUL IN A SENSE, AND THAT'S MAKING MORE SENSE TO ME. SO, SOMEBODY BROUGHT UP PETER COOK A WHILE AGO, AND YES, HE IS AMAZING. I MEAN, THAT IS ART. WOW. I SEE IT AS ART. BUT DO YOU CALL WHAT HE DOES "ASL POETRY?" I'M NOT REALLY SURE. I'M STILL QUESTIONING THAT. I'M NOT AUTHORITATIVE. I'M NOT THE LAST WORD IN ALL THIS. I THINK WE NEED MORE DEAF POETS TO GET TOGETHER AND DISCUSS ISSUES LIKE THIS-- WHAT'S POETRY? WHAT'S ART? AND I'M NOT THE LAST SAY-SO ON THIS. I CAN'T GIVE A DEFINITIVE ANSWER. I'M HOPING 20 OR 30 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD, MORE PEOPLE WILL HAVE GOTTEN TOGETHER. LYNN SAYS, I HOPE SO. CLAYTON SAYS, I DO, TOO. DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? THE QUESTION FROM THE AUDIENCE IS, CAN HEARING PEOPLE CREATE OR PERFORM ASL LIT? SAM IS ANSWERING, WELL, IF WE FOLLOW THE CONSTRUCT OF "LITERATURE" BEING THE OVERARCHING THEME, ONE SIDE IS "ASL," ONE IS "DEAF LIT," I THINK THAT THEY'RE VERY DIFFERENT, BUT IF IT WERE TO COME UP THAT A HEARING PERSON CREATES SOMETHING, THEY HAVE AN IDEA... IT COULD BE UNDER "DEAF OR HEARING ASL LIT." IT COULD BE ANOTHER SPINOFF OF THAT CATEGORY. CONNIE'S SAYING, WE'RE ABOUT TO GET OVER OUR TIME LIMIT HERE. SO, THERE'S ONE MORE QUESTION THAT'S SUPPOSED TO GO TO ALL OF YOU. OK, THIS IS FOR BERNARD. TRANSLATION... THAT WOULD GO UNDER "ASL LIT"? THAT'S THE FIRST QUESTION, AND THE SECOND THING, DO DEAF PEOPLE... YOU KNOW, WE DEPEND ON BOOKS, AND WE DEPEND ON TRANSLATION, AND SOMETIMES PEOPLE DON'T CREATE THINGS IN AN ORIGINAL FORMAT. IF IT'S A TRANSLATION, HOW IS IT ASL LIT? BONNIE SAID, WELL, THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH IT. THAT'S FINE. SOME PEOPLE DEPEND ON THEIR LIFE EXPERIENCES, AND THEY COLLECT...COLLECT A GRAND AMOUNT OF MATERIAL. I HAVE MY OWN LIFE EXPERIENCES. SOMETIMES I DO TRANSLATIONS, AND SOMETIMES IT'S FROM MY OWN LIFE AND IT'S ORIGINAL. SO, AS I SAID, THERE'S DIFFERENT WAYS TO GO ABOUT IT. TRANSLATIONS ARE FINE, BECAUSE IT'S STILL THE BEAUTY OF THE LANGUAGE. IT'S USING THE LANGUAGE IN THIS BEAUTIFUL WAY WITHIN THE TRANSLATION. THEN TRANSLATION CAN BE CREATED AND FROM SOMETHING YOU'VE EVEN WRITTEN IN ENGLISH, AND THEN IF YOU CREATE STORIES THAT ARE JUST SOMETHING THAT ARE BASED ON YOUR LIFE, THAT'S FINE. IT CAN FIT INTO ANY OF THESE CATEGORIES, AND THEY DON'T... ONE DOESN'T OBVIATE ANY OF THE OTHERS. CONNIE SAYS, GIL, YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU WANT TO ADD? GIL SAYS, YES. ALL OF THIS MAKES ME THINK... EVERYBODY. THIS IS ALL MAKING ME THINK. ABOUT 5 OR 6 MONTHS AGO, I WAS ASKED TO COME HERE TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS ASL LITERATURE CONFERENCE, AND I HAD A QUESTION. IF THIS CONFERENCE WAS DEAF LITERATURE, WOULD WE BE HERE IF IT WAS CALLED DEAF LITERATURE? I'M WONDERING WHAT THE ANSWER TO THAT WOULD BE. WOULD YOU FEEL DIFFERENTLY ABOUT IT IF THE TITLE OF THE WHOLE CONFERENCE WAS SOMETHING DIFFERENT? QUESTION FROM THE AUDIENCE. I THINK THAT'S A STRANGE QUESTION. IT'S SOMETHING I'VE BEEN STRUGGLING WITH, TOO, THE IDEA OF ASL. IT'S AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE, AND THAT MEANS THERE ARE HEARING PEOPLE WHO CAN SIGN, BUT... YOU KNOW, AND THERE ARE DEAF PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN AMERICA, SO WHAT IS IT? IT'S A MELANGE. THERE'S ALSO SPANISH. THERE'S ENGLISH. WHAT DOES "AMERICAN" MEAN? AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE. HAS TO BE DEAF? OR ANYBODY WHO CAN SIGN? WHERE DOES THAT FIT INTO THIS? A WOMAN IN THE AUDIENCE SAID SOMETHING ABOUT IT, BUT WHAT ABOUT "DEAF SIGN LANGUAGE" INSTEAD OF "AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE"? LYNN SAYS... THIS LIMITS OURSELVES TO TALKING ABOUT THE PHYSICAL PART OF OUR BEING AND THE SIGNING. THERE ARE CODA's. THERE ARE HEARING CHILDREN OF DEAF ADULTS WHO SIGN WITH FACILITY JUST LIKE THEIR DEAF PARENTS. "AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE" IS A GOOD-ENOUGH TITLE FOR IT. IT IS USED BY... MOSTLY BY DEAF PEOPLE, AND EVERYBODY PRETTY MUCH UNDERSTANDS THAT. THE COMMENT IS, BUT ASL IS DIFFERENT. SAM SAYS... EVERYBODY CAN LEARN IT WHO CAN SEE. I MEAN, IT'S JUST A THEORY. IT'S A CONCEPT. GIL SAYS...WHAT ABOUT AMERICAN INDIAN SIGN LANGUAGE? I MEAN, THEY CAN HEAR, AND THEY CAN TALK, BUT THEY'RE USING THIS COMMUNICATION SYSTEM. I MEAN, THAT DIDN'T MEAN THEY HAD TO BE DEAF TO USE SIGN LANGUAGE. SO, YOU KNOW, ON MARTHA'S VINEYARD, HEARING PEOPLE SIGNED. SO I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE TO PUT "DEAF" IN FRONT OF THE SIGN LANGUAGE. CLAYTON SAYS, THERE'S AMERICAN ENGLISH. DO WE SAY "AMERICAN ENGLISH"? AND DO WE PUT "HEARING" IN FRONT OF THAT? ONLY HEARING PEOPLE USE AMERICAN ENGLISH? I JUST DON'T THINK WE NEED THAT DESCRIPTOR. QUESTION FROM THE AUDIENCE IS, I'M DEAF... BUT WHAT'S UNIQUE ABOUT ME? WHAT'S UNIQUE ABOUT ME? OF COURSE, I USE ASL. I CAN SEE WHY "ASL LITERATURE" MIGHT BE A BETTER FIT, BECAUSE I, AS A DEAF PERSON, USE THAT AS MY LANGUAGE, AND IT SHOWS MY CULTURE AND ALL THOSE OTHER ADDITIONAL ASPECTS. SO, ASL...WELL, BACK TO YOU, SAM, WHAT YOU SAID BEFORE. SAM--YEAH. OK. THAT'S FINE. I'LL TAKE IT. WHATEVER YOU WANT TO SAY. THE PERSON'S COMMENT IS, ALL THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT ASL LIT... ARE WE JUST LOOKING AT THE LANGUAGE OR... I MEAN, IF WE'RE LOOKING AT IT JUST FROM THE LANGUAGE AND THEN WE ADD THE OVERLAY OF CULTURE AND THEN WE'RE ADDING OTHER ASPECTS, MORE AND MORE AND MORE TO IT, TO THE IDEA OF WHAT IT MEANS... HOW DOES IT APPLY TO WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT, SAM? AM I CLEAR ABOUT THAT? IF WE SAY THAT IT'S DEAF... AND THAT'S MORE GENERAL POSSIBLY. I MEAN, CAN WE BE MORE SPECIFIC? CONNIE SAYS, UH...CAN YOU ANSWER THAT QUESTION, SAM? SAM SAYS, I'M GOOD. FINE. HA HA. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT WAS ABOUT. SORRY. CONNIE SAYS, LET'S ASK THE NEXT PERSON. THE PROBLEM WITH THE DEFINITION OF LITERATURE IS, YES, YOU'VE GOT THIS WRITTEN FORM ON ONE SIDE, AND YOU HAVE THE ORAL FORM ON THE OTHER SIDE. AND, UH...I THINK THAT SAM'S WORK, TALKING ABOUT HAVING VIDEOTAPES AND TRYING TO DECIDE WHICH PART YOU WOULD PUT THEM IN, IF IT'S A TRANSLATION OR AN ADAPTATION, IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S A WRITTEN MATERIAL. I MEAN, CAN IT BE WRITTEN AND TAPED, AND THEN IT WOULD FIT ONLY IN ONE CATEGORY? AND THE OTHER QUESTION THAT I HAVE BEFORE YOU GET TO THAT ONE IS WHAT ABOUT BOOKS THAT ARE WRITTEN BY HEARING PEOPLE BUT THEY HAVE DEAF FOLKS IN THEM? THAT'S A CONTRADICTION, I THINK. CONNIE SAYS, I THROW THIS OUT TO THE PANEL. CLAYTON, YOU WANT TO ANSWER THIS? THE COMMENT FROM THE AUDIENCE IS IT'S JUST NOT CLEAR. WHAT ABOUT AN ADAPTATION? ONCE IT'S DOCUMENTED AND RECORDING, IT'S FILMED OR SOMETHING, AND THEN IT'S FROZEN... BUT SIGN LANGUAGE IS MOVING. IT'S SOMETHING DIFFERENT. CLAYTON SAYS, WELL, AS A WRITTEN FORM... THAT'S KIND OF AN INTERESTING TERM. WE SAY "WRITTEN FORM." IT REALLY SHOULD BE CONSIDERED A DOCUMENTED FORM. AND THAT'S WHAT YOU MEAN, I THINK, A DOCUMENTED FORM. SO WE DON'T HAVE TO SAY "WRITTEN." WE CAN SAY "DOCUMENTED." I ACCEPT THAT. THAT COULD BE A RECORDING. THE COMMENT IS, IT DOESN'T MATTER EITHER WAY. IT COULD BE WRITTEN, OR IT COULD BE RECORDED IN A VISUAL FORM. SAM SAYS, OK. AGAIN, DOCUMENTATION. FILM AND WRITTEN, EITHER WAY, IT'S STILL... IT'S DIFFERENT IN A SENSE. IT STILL FITS UNDER EITHER "WRITTEN" OR "FILMED" OR "DOCUMENTED." I JUST WANTED TO ADD, IT COULD STILL FIT INTO DIFFERENT CATEGORIES EVEN IF IT'S DOCUMENTED IN ANY OF THOSE WAYS. COMMENT FROM THE AUDIENCE. WHAT ABOUT HEARING CHILDREN WITH DEAF PARENTS? THAT HAS TO BE CONSIDERED, TOO. THE COMMENT IS, DEAF LIT... SHOULD NOT BE LIMITED JUST TO ASL. THERE'S PERFORMANCES BY THE DEAF AND NTD AND PEOPLE FROM OTHER COUNTRIES WHO COME HERE AND LEARN AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE THEN PERFORM ON THE STAGE. SEEMS LIKE THERE COULD BE A WORLD DEAF LIT. ASL LIT, ENGLISH DEAF LIT, ALL DIFFERENT SORTS OF LANGUAGES HAVE THEIR OWN DEAF LIT. THEATER HAS ITS OWN DIFFERENT CATEGORIES, AS HE SAID BEFORE. DEAF WORLD LITERATURE. AND NOW YOU MEET PEOPLE FROM OTHER DIFFERENT... OTHER COUNTRIES WHO COME HERE, AND WE'VE CREATING... WE'RE CREATING A WORLD LIT IN ESSENCE BY ALL THESE DEAF PEOPLE FROM OTHER COUNTRIES COMING HERE. GIL SAYS, I WANT TO REMIND YOU ALL THAT ANY ACADEMIC AREA, UNIVERSITY, COLLEGE, WHATEVER, HAS AN ENGLISH DEPARTMENT, AND UNDER THE ENGLISH DEPARTMENT, THEY HAVE WRITING, AND THEY HAVE LITERATURE, AND IT'S ALL UNDER THE ENGLISH DEPARTMENT, RIGHT? WRITING AND LITERATURE. SO WE HAVE ASL, AND WE COULD HAVE THE STREAM OF LITERATURE. WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE? I THINK WE MISSED SOME HANDS IN THE BACK OF THE AUDIENCE. THE COMMENT IS, ASL STORIES NEED TO BE VIDEOTAPED. YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO SEE THEM. PEOPLE READ BOOKS IN ENGLISH THAT ARE PUBLISHED. SO, MY QUESTION RELATES TO ASL LITERATURE AND THE NEED TO BE DOCUMENTED, TO BE VIDEOED SO IT CAN CARRY ON THROUGH TIME SO THAT WE CAN STUDY IT AS AN ART FORM OF LITERATURE, ASL LITERATURE. WOULD YOU AGREE? GIL SAYS, I'M SORRY. I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION. SO, I'LL SAY IT AGAIN. ASL DEPENDS ON THE VISUAL WAY OF TRANSMISSION AND RECORDING IT, STORIES AND THINGS BEING DOCUMENTED IN VIDEOTAPE. SO, IF SOMEBODY WERE TO COME AND THEY WANTED TO STUDY ASL LITERATURE, WHAT WOULD YOU SUGGEST TO THAT PERSON? THEY WANT TO STUDY ASL LITERATURE. HOW ON EARTH WOULD THEY DO IT? HOW WOULD ONE STUDY ASL LITERATURE? THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. CONNIE SAYS, WHO WANTS TO TAKE THAT? LYNN SAYS, OF COURSE, VIDEOTAPES. I MEAN, OF COURSE, WE HAVE SHELVES AND SHELVES OF STORYTELLING. WE HAVE SAM'S WORK. WE'RE ADDING TO IT ALL THE TIME. WE HAVE TECHNOLOGY NOW THAT IS WORKING VERY MUCH TO OUR ADVANTAGE. CONNIE SAYS, UH... IF YOU TEACH A COURSE CALLED "ASL LITERATURE," THEN IT WOULD HAVE TO BE ALL VIDEOTAPED MATERIALS. THERE WOULDN'T BE ANYTHING THAT YOU WOULD LOOK AT THAT WOULD BE WRITTEN. DID YOU SAY YOU WANTED TO ADD SOMETHING TO THAT, CLAYTON? YEAH. CLAYTON SAID, CAN I ADD TO WHAT YOU JUST SAID BEFORE ABOUT TWO DIFFERENT STRAINS-- WRITTEN AND ASL? OH, NO, THE ENGLISH LIT. "ENGLISH LIT" AT THE TOP. OK. SO, IT JUST MADE ME THINK, LISTENING TO THIS, WOW. WHERE IS ASL LITERATURE? WHO...WHO'S STUDYING IT? WHO HAS A DEGREE IN IT? WHO HAD A Ph.D IN IT? NOBODY. AND I THINK THAT CREATES A BIG DIFFICULTY. THERE'S NO ACADEMY THAT'S STUDYING IT. THE QUESTION IS, WHEN YOU FIRST GET INTO LEARNING ABOUT DEAF STUDIES AND DEAF CULTURE, AND I LEARNED ABOUT THIS AND SAID, "WOW. THAT'S FANTASTIC." AND THEN NEXT I LEARNED NOW THERE'S DEAF STUDIES. THAT'S FANTASTIC, TOO. I'M SO EXCITED. NOW THERE'S ASL LITERATURE. THAT'S WONDERFUL, TOO. SO, THESE ARE ALL GREAT. YOU KNOW, IT'S AMAZING. I'VE BEEN SO IMPRESSED WITH THE WHOLE TRAJECTORY OF ASL. AND SO I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THEIR LANGUAGE. I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT IS. I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND SIGNS OR WHATEVER. I'M TRYING TO GET MORE AND MORE ABOUT ASL AND KEEP THIS ASL AND KEEP THIS LITERATURE GOING. MATTHEW SAYS, EXCUSE ME. I'M SORRY. I CAN'T SEE YOU. I CAN'T...I'M NOT GETTING... A GENTLEMAN IN THE AUDIENCE SAYS, WE HAVE TO KEEP WRITING IT. WE HAVE TO KEEP THIS GOING FORWARD. MATTHEW SAYS, COULD YOU PLEASE SIGN THAT AGAIN SLOWLY SO I CAN COPY-SIGN IT? ALL RIGHT. I'M IN EDUCATION AND HAVE BEEN LEARNING A LOT. I'M OLD, BUT I'M STILL LEARNING. OLD DOG, NEW TRICKS. AND I THINK THAT WE NEED MORE INFORMATION FOR CHILDREN. DON'T MISUNDERSTAND ME. YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S REALLY GREAT. BUT I'VE BEEN VERY UPSET THAT THERE ARE NO MATERIALS FOR CHILDREN TO LEARN THIS INFORMATION. AND I THINK WE HAVE PLENTY FOR ADULTS. WE HAVE A LOT AT THE HIGHER LEVEL FOR ADULTS. BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO BRING KIDS UP TO THE LEVEL OF HAVING ANY MATERIALS IN ASL FOR THEM TO LEARN, AND SO WE NEED MORE OF THAT FOR CHILDREN. LYNN SAYS, I CAN REPLY TO THAT. THE FIRST TIME I OFFERED ADULT-LEVEL CLASSES, I REALIZED I NEEDED TO TWEAK THEM. I TOOK THE ADULT MATERIALS, AND I'M GONNA BE WORKING SOON WITH KINDERGARTENERS, AND I'M GONNA HAVE KIDS TELL STORIES, AND I'M GONNA VIDEOTAPE THEM, AND THE NEXT TIME WE HAVE A CONFERENCE, I'LL BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU CHILDREN SIGNING THESE STORIES AND SIGNING ASL LITERATURE. THE COMMENT IS, LISTENING TO ALL OF THIS, I AM STILL NOT SATISFIED. NOBODY SEEMS TO BE AGREEING WHAT ASL LITERATURE IS OR DEAF STUDIES IS, AND I DO NOT WANT TO LEAVE WITHOUT HAVING SOME SORT OF DEFINITIVE ANSWER. AND GIL SAYS, WELL, WE ARE HERE WITHOUT THE INTENTION OF COMING UP WITH SOME SORT OF DEFINITIVE PRONOUNCEMENT ABOUT WHAT THIS ALL IS. WE'RE JUST IN DISCUSSION. CLAYTON SAYS, AGAIN, THERE IS NO ASL LITERATURE ACADEMY AND CANON AND STUDIES YET. I DIDN'T SAY THAT RIGHT. LET ME START OVER. WITHOUT AN ASL ART FORM OR STUDIES OF IT IN A HIGHER FORM, THEN WE CAN'T HAVE ASL LIT, I THINK. LYNN SAYS, I DISAGREE. BERNARD SAYS, I FEEL SOMEWHAT THE SAME. MAYBE EVERYBODY DOES. WE'RE GONNA BE LEAVING HERE, AND WE'RE STILL IN THE PLACE WHERE WE STARTED. I'M LEAVING WITH THIS FEELING THAT WE...WE HAVEN'T REACHED CONSENSUS. THERE IS A COURSE AT GALLAUDET CALLED "DEAF IN LIT," AND WHAT THIS MEANS IS STORIES AND BOOKS AND POETRY THAT CONTAIN DEAF CHARACTERS WITHIN THE CONTENT. OK. SO, IF YOU GO TO THE LIBRARY AND YOU DO A SEARCH, ALL KINDS OF BOOKS AND STORIES AND THINGS COME UP RELATED TO DEAF PEOPLE. AND I ALSO FOUND, YOU PUT IN "DEAF FICTION..." "DEAF FICTION," THERE ARE TONS... IT'S LIKE A THOUSAND BOOKS ARE CITED THERE WITH DEAF CHARACTERS IN THEM. THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION OF WHERE DO YOU GO WHEN YOU GO INTO A LIBRARY AND YOU'RE TRYING TO FIND THINGS ABOUT DEAF LITERATURE, DO YOU LOOK UNDER "ASL"? DO YOU LOOK UNDER "DEAF STUDIES"? DO YOU LOOK UNDER "DEAF LITERATURE"? "ASL LITERATURE, DEAF STUDIES, DEAF LITERATURE." WHAT DO YOU DO? I'M PROPOSING CALLING IT "LITERATURE OF THE DEAF" PERHAPS. SOMEBODY FROM THE AUDIENCE TALKED ABOUT "AMERICAN DEAF LITERATURE." THEY BROUGHT THAT UP. SOMEBODY SAYS THAT THERE'S FRENCH DEAF LITERATURE, AND THEN YOU CAN STUDY WHAT DEAF LITERATURE IS, WHICH WOULD, OF COURSE, INCLUDE THE HISTORY, THE LANGUAGE, THE CULTURE, AND EVERYTHING ELSE ABOUT THAT GROUP OF PEOPLE. SO NOW, COMING BACK TO THE QUESTION AT HAND, DEAF...WELL, ASL LITERATURE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE, WE CAN KEEP THAT. AND DEAF STUDIES. SO, I SEE A LOT OF POSSIBILITIES THAT IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO LOOK AT. FIRST WE HAVE TO CLEARLY DEFINE WHAT WE'RE GONNA CALL WHAT IT IS WE'RE LOOKING FOR SO WE KNOW WHAT TO EVEN PUT IN AS KEYWORDS WHEN WE'RE DOING A SEARCH. IF YOU'RE DOING RESEARCH OR STUDIES OR WHATEVER, YOU NEED TO HAVE SOMETHING TO BE ABLE TO CONSOLIDATE WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR. CONNIE SAYS, WELL, IT'S TIME TO WRAP UP. AND WE MAY LEAVE WITHOUT A CLEAR DEFINITION OF WHAT DEAF LITERATURE OR ASL LITERATURE IS. BUT THE POINT IS, YOU'LL GO HOME AND YOU'LL SHARE WITH OTHER PEOPLE WHERE YOU'VE COME FROM, AND YOU'LL TALK ABOUT THESE DIFFERENT IDEAS, LIKE SAM'S IDEAS OF SIGN-LANGUAGE STUDIES, CLAYTON'S IDEAS ABOUT POETRY, GIL, BONNIE... AND BERNARD, EVERYTHING. THE IDEA IS THAT THERE'S NO RIGHT ANSWER, THERE'S NO WRONG ANSWER, AND I CAN SEE THAT THIS CONFERENCE IS THE BEGINNING OF A VERY WONDERFUL AND EXCITING FUTURE FOR US ALL.

"This project is supported by a Digitizing Hidden Collections grant from the Council on Library and Information Resources (CLIR). The grant program is made possible by funding from the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation."

Concluding panel discussion : what is ASL literature, anyway?