ds_0101_whatisasl_cap_01.mp4

ds_0101_whatisasl_cap_01.mp4

What is ASL literature, anyway?

American Sign Language literature

Deaf, Writings of the, American

Deaf, Theater for the

Deaf Poetry

ASL poetry

Dr. Barbara Kannapel moderates a lively panel discussion of the definition of literature. Different viewpoints are offered-for example, Bonnie suggests a framework of two strands of literature-Deaf Literature (written format) and Sign Language Literature with subcategories within each. Gil Eastman describes two different types of theatre or drama such as Theatre of the Deaf/Theatre for the Deaf, which differ in performer composition and audience. Clayton Valli believes this construct doesn't work for poetry, as it plays with language, and prefers the term ASL poetry; not poetry of/for the Deaf. Lynn Jacobowitz describes her experience writing plays and would like to create Deaf-centered ASL plays that reflects the Deaf experience. She will be videotaping kindergarten Deaf children signing stories to expose them to ASL literature. Sam Supalla explains that Deaf literature and ASL literature are two separate bodies of work and are taught as separate classes. The problem with the term Deaf literature is it doesn't give equal weight to Sign Language literature and is missing that part. There is some discussion of Black Literature, African American Studies, Women's Studies, Native American Studies and whether these constructs fit the Deaf community's definition. Valli suggests looking into these programs to see if their rubrics could be adapted. Bernard Bragg then suggests using a big 'D' Deaf Literature and Sign Language Studies. He agrees with Bonnie that focusing on ASL literature is too limiting--doesn't take into account Deaf culture, history, beliefs, etc. Sam suggests the categories Deaf Studies and Sign Language Studies with subcategories of literature under each. At the end, all agreed more discussion on these concepts is needed to further clarify the distinctions of literature.

National Technical Institute for the Deaf

Rochester Institute of Technology - RIT Libraries - RIT Archive Collections

Kramer, Bonnie

Jacobowitz, Lynn

Supalla, Samuel James, 1957-

Valli, Clayton

Eastman, Gilbert C.

Bragg, Bernard, 1928-2018

1991

2018

moving image

mp4

VHS

59 minutes

American Sign Language

English

RITDSA.0101

Sculptures in the Air: An Accessible Online Video Repository of the American Sign Language (ASL) Poetry and Literature Collections

Karen Christie ASL Literature Collection

2018-2019 CLIR Grant-ASL Poetry and Literature

https://albert.rit.…

https://archivesspa…

New York - Rochester

Henrietta Campus

RIT Libraries makes materials from its collections available for educational and research purposes pursuant to U.S. Copyright Law. You are free to use this Item in any way that is permitted by the copyright and related rights legislation that applies to your use. It is your responsibility to obtain permission from the copyright holder to publish or reproduce images in print or electronic form.

CC BY-NC-ND: Attribution NonCommercial NoDerivatives 4.0 International

AND HE SAYS, LET'S OPEN
WITH YOU, BERNARD.

AND FIRST OF ALL,
WE'RE GOING TO ADDRESS

THE TERM "LITERATURE."
WHAT IS IT?

BERNARD SAYS, I THINK
THAT YOU COULD SAY IN BRIEF

THAT IT'S LIFE...
BECAUSE TO FULLY

AND COMPLETELY
UNDERSTAND LIFE,

WE NEED LITERATURE.

LITERATURE REFLECTS
LIFE TO US.

IF YOU READ SOMETHING,
A STORY, A PLAY, A POEM,

AS YOU READ THESE PIECES,
YOU MAKE A CONNECTION.

IT REFLECTS
MY EXPERIENCE.

SO, LITERATURE COMMUNICATES
EXPERIENCE TO US.

NOW, IF YOU READ
SOMETHING,

YOU MAY SAY, "THAT REFLECTS
WHAT I WENT THROUGH,"

OR YOU MAY HAVE
THE OPPOSITE EXPERIENCE

AND SAY, "I'VE NEVER
GONE THROUGH THAT,

"BUT I SURE DO LEARN ABOUT
SOMEBODY ELSE'S WORLD VIEW

AND THAT THEY
WENT THROUGH THAT."

AND SO LITERATURE ITSELF
IS ABOUT LIFE.

IS THAT CLEAR?

DOES THAT FEEL LIKE
A GOOD-ENOUGH EXPLANATION?

CONNIE SAYS, THANK YOU.
THAT'S WONDERFUL.

AND NOW BONNIE.

BONNIE SAYS, FINE.
I'M READY.

I HAVE MY OVERHEAD.

LET'S SEE.
I CAN STAND HERE.

CAN YOU SEE ME
ALL RIGHT HERE?

IS THIS GOOD?

SHOULD I MOVE OVER
TO THE OTHER SIDE?

WHERE WOULD IT BE BEST?

GIL SAYS,
I THINK IF YOU GO

TO WHERE THE STAGE LIGHT IS
ON THE SPOT,

MAYBE YOU'LL BE ABLE
TO BE SEEN BETTER.

BONNIE SAYS, FINE.

NOW, YOU'LL NOTICE THAT I HAVE
DIFFERENT CATEGORIES HERE.

THIS IS MY IDEA
OF WHAT DEAF LIT IS.

IF YOU LOOK AT RESEARCH
ABOUT LITERATURE AND ASL,

IT'S KIND OF CONFUSING.

SO, WE DO HAVE
SOME WRITTEN MATERIALS.

SOME OTHER PEOPLE SAY
IT SHOULD ONLY BE ABOUT

AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE
MATERIALS.

SO THAT GETS
A LITTLE MUDDY.

SO I DECIDED THAT BOTH
OF THESE CATEGORIES

COULD BE SUBSUMED
UNDER "DEAF LIT,"

AND THEN IT FALLS
INTO TWO SEPARATE STRAINS.

THERE ARE
WRITTEN MATERIALS,

AND THIS COULD BE WRITTEN
IN ANY LANGUAGE.

IT COULD BE ENGLISH,
SPANISH, FRENCH, WHATEVER,

BUT THESE ARE SPECIFICALLY
WRITTEN MATERIALS--

BOOKS, PLAYS, POEMS,
WHAT HAVE YOU.

BUT UNDERSTAND THAT THIS MEANS
THEY ARE WRITTEN

AND CREATED
BY DEAF PEOPLE.

BY DEAF PEOPLE.

NOW, THIS MEANS THAT THE STORY
OR WHATEVER THE CONTENT IS

DOES NOT NEED TO HAVE
DEAF CHARACTERS IN IT.

IT'S JUST ACKNOWLEDGING
THAT THE AUTHOR,

THE CREATOR IS DEAF.

THEY MAY WRITE
SOME SORT OF PIECE

THAT SHOWS
THE LIFE EXPERIENCE

OF SOMEONE THAT HAS
NOTHING TO DO WITH DEAFNESS,

NOBODY DEAF.

THEY JUST SEE SOMETHING,
IT AFFECTS THEM,

AND THEY WRITE.

AND SO, OVERTLY
THERE MAY NOT BE ANYTHING

ABOUT DEAF PEOPLE
IN IT,

BUT, OF COURSE, THEY'RE
INFORMED BY THEIR EXPERIENCES,

YOU KNOW, AND SO MAYBE THEY
WOULD EMPHASIZE THE VISUAL MORE,

MAYBE THEY'D TALK A LOT ABOUT
THE DESIGN OF THINGS OR COLORS,

BUT THEY DE-EMPHASIZE THE
AUDITORY COMPONENTS OF A STORY,

AND SO IT WOULD INFORM
THEIR EXPERIENCE IN WRITING THIS

ALTHOUGH THERE'S NOTHING
ABOUT IT IN THERE.

NOW, THERE COULD BE
HEARING PEOPLE

WHO WRITE ABOUT DEAF PEOPLE,
HEARING AUTHORS,

THAT HAVE DEAF CHARACTERS
IN THEIR WRITING.

MAYBE THEY HAD
DEAF PARENTS.

IT DOESN'T MEAN
THAT THEY SHOULD NOT

BE INVOLVED
IN THIS CATEGORY.

THEY ARE CREATING DEAF LIT
EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE NOT DEAF.

NOW, WHAT IF I'M DEAF
AND I WRITE ABOUT DEAFNESS?

THEN I BELONG
IN BOTH CATEGORIES.

IF YOU LOOK
OVER TO THE RIGHT,

WE TALK ABOUT
SIGN-LANGUAGE MATERIALS,

IN SIGN, SPECIFICALLY
IN SIGN LANGUAGE.

IT COULD BE ASL. IT COULD BE
FRENCH SIGN LANGUAGE.

IT COULD BE
SPANISH SIGN LANGUAGE.

ANY SIGN-LANGUAGE
GENERATED MATERIALS.

AND THEN THERE'S DIFFERENT
CATEGORIES UNDER THAT.

THERE'S TRANSLATION,
FOR EXAMPLE.

SO, THIS MORNING, BRUCE LEIBACH
WAS TALKING ABOUT HIS WORK,

ABOUT TEENAGERS, AND HE HAD
THIS BEAUTIFUL PIECE OF WRITING,

AND THAT WOULD GO
UNDER "A," I THINK, AND "C."

SO THAT FITS
INTO TWO CATEGORIES.

MAYBE YOU'LL BE CAPTIVATED BY
A PARTICULAR PIECE OF WRITING,

AND THEN YOU'LL TRANSLATE IT
AND PERFORM IT INTO ASL.

SO, THAT'S AN ASL-PERFORMED
MATERIAL,

BUT IT'S A TRANSLATION,

AND THEREFORE IT FITS INTO
TWO DIFFERENT CATEGORIES ALSO.

"B" IS ADAPTATION.

SO, THAT COULD BE
A FAIRY TALE.

THERE'S NOTHING
ABOUT DEAFNESS IN IT,

BUT WHAT YOU DO IS
YOU CHANGE THE CHARACTERS

SO THAT IT FITS WITHIN
A SIGN-LANGUAGE REPRESENTATION.

SO, "C" IS ORIGINAL WORK,

NOT AN ADAPTATION,
NOT A TRANSLATION.

THIS IS ME AND SAYS SOMETHING
THAT I'VE COME UP WITH.

THERE'S NOTHING FROM
A WRITTEN FORM WHATSOEVER.

IT'S JUST AN ORIGINAL WORK
THAT I CAME UP WITH.

THAT'S WHERE I'M COMING FROM
WITH ALL OF THIS.

CONNIE SAYS, AND NOW WE'LL HEAR
FROM GIL EASTMAN

AND WHAT HE THINKS THE MEANING
OF LITERATURE MIGHT BE.

A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO,
THERE WAS A PANEL DISCUSSION

THAT TOOK PLACE...

AND I WANTED
TO GIVE THE IDEA

ABOUT 4 CATEGORIES
OF THEATER,

AND A LOT OF PEOPLE
CAME UP TO ME AFTERWARDS

AND SAID I NEEDED TO
EXPLAIN MORE ABOUT THAT.

SO I'M TAKING THE STAGE
RIGHT NOW TO DO THAT.

NOW, THERE'S SOMETHING
CALLED THEATER OF THE DEAF,

AND I CAN THINK OF ONLY
A FEW EXAMPLES OF THIS.

IT WOULD BE GROUPS IN AMERICA,
OF WHOM THERE ARE ONLY A FEW,

LIKE NATIONAL THEATRE
OF THE DEAF.

CAN ANYBODY THINK OF ANY OTHERS
THAT SAY "OF" IN THE TITLE?

SOMEBODY MENTIONED
ANOTHER THEATER OF THE DEAF.

NEW YORK CITY THEATER OF...

NOPE. NOPE TO BOTH
OF THOSE SUGGESTIONS.

NOPE. THERE'S NO "OF"
IN THOSE TITLES.

HOUSTON? I'M NOT SURE
ABOUT THAT ONE. IT MIGHT BE.

FTD. THAT'S RIGHT.
FAIRMOUNT THEATRE OF THE DEAF.

THAT'S RIGHT.
THAT HAS "OF" IN THE NAME.

ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHAT WE MEAN
BY THIS, WHEN YOU SAY "OF,"

IT'S A GROUP
OF DEAF PEOPLE

WITH HEARING PEOPLE
INVOLVED IN THE GROUP, TOO.

AND THEY CREATE PIECES OF WORK
FOR THE AUDIENCES

WHO ARE PREDOMINANTLY HEARING,

AND DEAF PEOPLE
ARE, QUOTE, WELCOME.

THEATER FOR THE DEAF,
HOWEVER, OBVIOUSLY,

IS A GROUP OF DEAF ACTORS

WHO CREATE PIECES SPECIFICALLY
FOR DEAF AUDIENCES,

AND HEARING PEOPLE
ARE, QUOTE, WELCOME.

THOSE ARE TWO
DISTINCT CATEGORIES.

AM I CLEAR ABOUT THAT?

NOW, WHAT NATIONAL THEATRE OF
THE DEAF WOULD PROVIDE WOULD...

WELL, FOR EXAMPLE,
LET ME GO BACK.

GALLAUDET UNIVERSITY, RIGHT,
THEY HAVE A THEATER DEPARTMENT,

THEATER ARTS DEPARTMENT,
AND THEY PROVIDE PLAYS

FOR HEARING, DEAF,
WHATEVER,

AND THEY ADAPT PLAYS
FOR DEAF AUDIENCES,

BUT THEIR SOURCE MATERIAL
CAN BE ANYTHING.

DEAF THEATER--
TO BE HONEST WITH YOU,

I CAN'T EVEN
NAME ONE YET,

BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENS IS,
QUITE OFTEN A...A DEAF CLUB

OR A SMALL COMMUNITY
OF DEAF PEOPLE DECIDE

"WE ARE GOING TO CREATE
A DEAF THEATER GROUP,"

AND THEN SOMEBODY
WILL WRITE A PLAY,

AND EVERYBODY IN IT IS DEAF,
DEAF CHARACTERS.

IT'S CREATED
IN SIGN LANGUAGE.

AND THAT WOULD BE
DEAF THEATER.

BUT I DON'T KNOW
MANY OF THOSE.

SO, THEATER...

YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK
AT "HAMLET," YOU KNOW,

THAT IS OBVIOUSLY A PLAY
WRITTEN BY A HEARING PERSON,

AND OFTEN PEOPLE
WILL TRANSLATE THAT

INTO SIGN LANGUAGE,
AND THAT DOESN'T MEAN

WHETHER IT'S ACTORS
WHO ARE DEAF OR HEARING.

THEY'RE DOING
AN ADAPTATION OF THIS,

BUT THEY'RE PUTTING IT
INTO SIGN LANGUAGE,

AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO
WITH DEAF FOLKS,

DEAF CHARACTERS,
WHATEVER.

IT'S JUST A SKILLFUL
REPRESENTATION

AND BRINGING FORWARD
OF A SHAKESPEAREAN PLAY

IN A TRANSLATION.

THANK YOU, CONNIE SAYS.
AND SO, UH...LET'S SEE.

CLAYTON, WOULD YOU LIKE
TO TALK ABOUT

THE SYSTEM YOU HAVE
OF DELINEATING

WHAT DIFFERENT VIEWS
OF LITERATURE MIGHT MEAN?

CLAYTON SAYS...

CAN EVERYBODY SEE ME OK
WITH THAT OVERHEAD UP THERE?

SO, I WATCHED GIL'S DESCRIPTION
AND BONNIE'S.

FIRST OF ALL, CAN EVERYBODY
SEE ME ALL RIGHT?

SHOULD I STAND OVER THERE?
OK, I'LL GO OVER THERE.

OK.

THIS LOOKS AT THEATER,

AND THAT LOOKS LIKE A PRETTY
GOOD DEFINITION TO ME.

IT'S DIVIDED
INTO 4 CATEGORIES,

AND I AGREE WITH THAT,
BUT FOR ME,

I'M LOOKING SPECIFICALLY
AT POETRY,

AND POETRY DOESN'T WORK WITH
THIS PARTICULAR DELINEATION.

THEATER LOOKS AT LANGUAGE
AND CULTURE SPECIFICALLY,

AND POETRY IS SPECIFICALLY
AND SOLELY FOCUSED

ON PLAYING WITH THE LANGUAGE
AND CRAFTING IT.

SO, YES, THERE ARE
CULTURAL OVERLAYS, OF COURSE,

THAT ARE IMPLICIT
WITHIN A LANGUAGE.

BUT I FEEL THAT WE SHOULD
DEAL WITH THE FACT

THAT IT'S POETRY CREATED IN ASL
AND CALL IT ASL POETRY,

AND IT'S NOT POETRY
OF THE DEAF

OR FOR THE DEAF
OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

IT'S SPECIFICALLY
ASL POETRY.

AND THAT'S MY FEELING
ABOUT THAT.

CONNIE SAYS, MAYBE
WE NEED TO BRING

THE LIGHTS UP
A LITTLE BIT.

PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING
ABOUT THE LIGHTS.

FACES ARE DARK, IT SEEMS.

CAN WE BRING UP THE LIGHTS
A LITTLE, PLEASE?

LYNN SAYS, WOW.
I'M BLINDED NOW.

OK. I WANT TO CLARIFY
WHAT CLAYTON JUST SAID

AND, UH, THAT OVERHEAD.

NOW, I DON'T KNOW
IF YOU REMEMBER A PLAY

THAT BERNARD BRAGG
HAD WRITTEN A LONG TIME AGO

CALLED "TALES
FROM A CLUB ROOM."

WHICH CATEGORY
WOULD THAT FIT IN?

IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S
DEAF THEATER, RIGHT?

BECAUSE IT'S
FOR DEAF AUDIENCES.

I WROTE A PLAY
A WHILE BACK,

AND NTD HAD ASKED ME
TO WRITE IT, AND THEY SAID,

"WRITE IT SPECIFICALLY
FOR HEARING AUDIENCES,"

AND I HAD A LOT
OF DIFFICULTY WITH THAT,

TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH.

I HAVE NO HEARING EXPERIENCE
WITHIN MY LIFE.

AND I WENT AHEAD
AND WROTE IT.

I USED MY MOTHER'S EXPERIENCES
AND MINE.

I PUT THEM TOGETHER,
AND I CRAFTED THIS PLAY,

AND IT TURNED OUT
PRETTY WELL.

BUT I REALLY FELT THE NEED
AND THE URGE TO GO BACK

TO DEAF-CENTERED ASL PLAYS.

I REALLY WANTED TO DO THAT,
BECAUSE I WANTED TO WRITE A PLAY

THAT REFLECTED MY PERSONAL
EXPERIENCES, MY CHILDHOOD.

AND THEN I WROTE A PLAY
IN COLLABORATION WITH OTHERS

CALLED "OH, STOP! OH, STOP!"
THAT WAS BACK IN 1981.

IT WAS A FULL-LENGTH PLAY,

AND IT WAS ABOUT THE SPIRIT
OF THE SCHOOLS FOR THE DEAF

WHEN YOU WEREN'T
ALLOWED TO SIGN

AND WHEN IT MORE THE ORALIST
PARADIGM OF EDUCATION.

SO, THAT WAS
FOR DEAF PEOPLE.

THERE ARE A LOT OF PLAYS,
A LOT OF PERFORMANCES

WRITTEN BY AND FOR
DEAF PEOPLE.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT
TO NOTE THAT.

SAM SAYS...

SO...THE TITLE
OF THIS PANEL IS

"ASL LITERATURE:
WHAT IS IT ANYWAY?"

WHICH I FIND INTERESTING.

BUT WHEN I LOOK
AT ASL LITERATURE,

I MEAN, OK.
ASL LITERATURE,

AND I SEE ALL THESE
DIFFERENT CATEGORIES--

DEAF LITERATURE,
ASL LITERATURE, WHATEVER--

AND SO I THINK WE REALLY
NEED TO NOT FORGET

THAT WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT ASL.

IT'S THE LANGUAGE,
AND YOU CAN'T ESCAPE THAT.

THE IDEA IS THAT WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT ASL.

EVERYTHING ABOUT IT JUST
REVOLVES AROUND THE USE OF ASL.

SO IT CAN BE
IN STORIES, IN POEMS,

IN PLAYS, WHAT HAVE YOU.

IT ALL REVOLVES
AROUND ASL.

SO YOU HAVE TO FOCUS ON THAT.
THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING,

THAT YOU CAN'T NEGATE
THE IMPORTANCE OF ASL

IN THIS DISCUSSION.

GIL SAYS, I'M SORRY.
I JUST HAVE TO TELL YOU

THAT WHEN I SAW
THE TITLE OF THIS PANEL,

"ASL LIT:
WHAT IS IT ANYWAY?"

I DON'T REALLY LIKE
THE TONE OF THAT.

I DID NOT LIKE THE TITLE.
IT TOOK ME ABACK.

AND I JUST FELT I HAD TO
LET YOU KNOW THAT.

CONNIE SAYS, YEAH,
"ASL: WHAT IS IT ANYWAY?"

I THINK THAT'S
A HEARING TITLE.

I THINK SOMEBODY HEARING
MUST HAVE COME UP WITH THAT.

YEAH, BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO BE IN
CONFLICT WITH OUR DEAF CULTURE,

TO HAVE COME UP
WITH A TITLE

THAT HAD THAT KIND
OF TONE TO IT.

THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.
BUT ANYWAY...

CONNIE IS CONTINUING

WHERE THE INTERPRETER
CAN FINALLY SEE HER.

I WENT TO A TALK
A COUPLE OF NIGHTS AGO

THAT I'D LIKE YOU GUYS
TO RESPOND TO IF YOU COULD.

LYNN, IF YOU COULD
TALK ABOUT THAT.

LYNN'S TALKING ABOUT...
AND SAYS, THE FORMS, THE BOOK,

THE CHARACTERS,
THE WRITING, WHATEVER,

THAT'S WRITTEN LITERATURE,

BUT ASL LITERATURE
WOULD BE ON THE HANDS

AND PLAYING AROUND
WITH THE LANGUAGE,

THE WAY CLAYTON
JUST MENTIONED,

AND THE WAY THAT WE
WOULD PRESERVE THAT

WOULD BE ON DISKS,
ON DVD's OR VHS OR WHATEVER,

AND THAT'S THE WAY WE WOULD
PRESERVE THOSE MATERIALS.

CLAYTON SAYS,
THAT'S NOT THE SAME.

WE'RE NOT REALLY TALKING
ABOUT THE SAME THING,

BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE "LITERATURE"
AS THE UMBRELLA TERM,

IT'S NOT THE SAME.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
TWO SEPARATE CATEGORIES

THAT ARE NOT SUBSUMED
UNDER THE SAME UMBRELLA TERM.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THINGS
THAT HAVE NO RELATIONSHIP

AT THEIR POINT
OF IMPETUS AT ALL.

CONNIE SAYS, PERHAPS YOU COULD
DESCRIBE A LITTLE BIT MORE

OF WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM
WITH THIS, CLAYTON.

CLAYTON SAYS,
WELL, I RELATED

WHAT LYNN WAS
JUST TALKING ABOUT.

SHE SAID THAT THERE'S ASL LIT,
THERE'S WRITTEN LIT,

AND I'M...I REALLY HAVE TO
THINK TWICE ABOUT ALL THIS,

ESPECIALLY IN LIGHT
OF WHAT GIL SAID,

BECAUSE "LITERATURE"
IS A VERY BROAD TERM, RIGHT?

SO, BONNIE HAS THIS CONSTRUCT
OF HAVING LIT BE AT THE TOP,

AND THEN THESE SEPARATIONS
BEING ON TWO STREAMS

ON EITHER SIDE,
WHICH I AGREE WITH,

WHETHER IT'S POETRY
OR THEATER

OR ANY OTHER KIND OF ART.

ALL OF THEM
COULD FIT NEATLY

INTO SOME OF THESE CATEGORIES
ON EITHER SIDE.

AND SO I DO SAY
THAT I BUY INTO

BONNIE'S PARTICULAR WAY
OF SHOWING THIS.

LYNN SAYS, WELL, I THINK
THE PROBLEM IS THAT

THERE HASN'T BEEN
A LOT OF RESEARCH

DONE ABOUT THIS SO FAR.

SO, OF COURSE, WE'RE COMING UP
WITH THESE IDEAS,

AND EVERYTHING'S GOING TO BE
TWEAKED AS TIME GOES ON.

SO I DO LIKE
BONNIE'S PERSPECTIVE.

I LIKE VERY MUCH
THAT SHE'S STARTED US OFF

IN THIS PARTICULAR WAY.

BERNARD SAID, I WANT TO ASK SAM
A LITTLE BIT MORE PERSONALLY,

BECAUSE IT'S
VERY INTERESTING.

THERE'S ALL THESE
DIFFERENT CATEGORIES

THAT WE CAN TEASE OUT,
BUT IT'S CONFUSING.

I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THINGS
A LOT EASIER

SO THAT IF THERE WERE
ACADEMIC RESEARCHERS

OR ACADEMIC DEPARTMENTS
LOOKING AT THIS,

THEY WOULD SEE
THAT IT'S VALIDATED.

WE HAVE TO NOTE THAT THERE IS
AN ORAL COMPONENT

TO LITERATURE AS WELL.

SO, BONNIE HAS
THESE IDEAS,

AND I THINK THAT
WORKS VERY WELL.

BUT I HAVE A LITTLE BIT
OF TREPIDATION,

BECAUSE SOME THINGS
WILL COME UP,

AND WHERE WILL WE PUT THEM?

IF SOMETHING IS ASL, IT MIGHT GO
ON ONE SIDE OR ANOTHER.

BUT, SAM, WHAT DO YOU
THINK ABOUT THIS

IN TERMS OF LITERATURE?

SAM SAYS, WELL...

DEAF LITERATURE...
ONE PART CAN BE...

IT CAN BE ANY SIGN LANGUAGE.
IT COULD BE ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

I THINK DEAF LITERATURE
AND ASL LITERATURE

NEED TO STAY SEPARATE.
I REALLY DO.

HERE I AM, COMING
TO AN ASL LIT CONFERENCE,

AND I DON'T SEE ANY...
ANY MENTION OR ANY DISCUSSION

ABOUT ASL LIT SPECIFICALLY,

AND IT SEEMS LIKE
THEY'RE FREE-FLOWING.

BUT IF WE'RE LOOKING AT ACADEMIC
COURSES AND CURRICULUM,

YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT
WHAT THE GOALS OF THOSE ARE,

AND DEAF LIT AND ASL
WOULD BE DIFFERENT.

IF SOME THINGS
ARE WRITTEN MATERIAL,

THEN ASL CONFOUNDS
THAT DEFINITION.

WHERE IS THE SPIRIT
OF THE ORAL TRADITION IN THAT?

WHERE IS THE LINEAGE?

I THINK THAT WE NEED TO BE
REALLY CAREFUL ABOUT THAT.

WE MUST DEAL WITH THE FACT
THAT LANGUAGES EVOLVE.

AND SO ASL LITERATURE IS TIED
TO OTHER TRADITIONS, TOO,

AND I...I THINK
IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT

THAT WE ADDRESS
THE ORAL TRADITION,

AND I DON'T
SEE THIS ANYWHERE.

I DON'T SEE HOW THAT FITS
INTO EITHER OF THESE CATEGORIES

OR IF IT PUTS
ONE CATEGORY

MAYBE HIGHER UP
IN THE HIERARCHY

OF WHEN DO WE DISCUSS THESE
IN TERMS OF ITS IMPORTANCE.

GIL SAYS, BERNARD BRAGG
MISCHARACTERIZED ME.

I WANT TO SAY THIS AGAIN.

I WAS TALKING ABOUT THESE
DIFFERENT CATEGORIES OF THEATER,

AND YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT LITERATURE,

AND I REALIZE THAT REALLY WHAT
I'M TALKING ABOUT IS DRAMA, OK?

AND DRAMA IS EVEN
ANOTHER SEPARATE THING.

WHEN YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT WRITTEN

OR WHETHER IT'S PERFORMED
OR WHATEVER, IT'S UNDER "DRAMA."

SO, THESE CATEGORIES
THAT ARE PUT UP HERE ARE DRAMA,

BUT, FOR EXAMPLE,
"CHILDREN OF A LESSER GOD,"

OK, WHERE WOULD THAT GO?

THAT'S ON THE LEFT-HAND SIDE,
AUDIENCE LEFT.

"SIGN ME ALICE"
WOULD BE OVER ON THE RIGHT

IN TERMS OF AN ASL PLAY.

SO, "TALES FROM A CLUB ROOM,"
THAT BERNARD WROTE,

WOULD GO INTO
ANOTHER CATEGORY, TOO.

SO THERE'S DIFFERENT WAYS
THAT THE PLAYS WILL FALL OUT

IN TERMS OF
THIS CONSTRUCT.

BERNARD SAYS,
SHOULD I GO NOW?

DO YOU WANT ME
TO CEDE THE FLOOR?

CLAYTON SAYS...

"DEAF LIT," WHEN I SEE THAT,
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT

TO HAVE THIS...THESE DIFFERENT
STRAINS OF MEANING

FOR WHAT IT MEANS BECAUSE WE
ARE DEALING WITH TWO LANGUAGES.

WE'RE ALL BILINGUAL.
WE GREW UP THAT WAY.

WE HAD TWO LANGUAGES
GROWING UP,

AND SO I THINK
IT'S IMPORTANT

THAT WE DO PUT THESE
IN DIFFERENT AREAS,

BECAUSE WE DO HAVE
THE ENGLISH SIDE OF THE EQUATION

AND THE ASL SIDE.

I THINK STARTING
WITH A BROAD TITLE

AND THEN TAKING IT INTO EITHER
STREAM ON EITHER SIDE

IS REALLY IMPORTANT
TO MAINTAIN.

BONNIE SAYS, I THINK
THAT IS A GREAT POINT.

WE DO HAVE TO
EMPHASIZE THE FACT

THAT WE ARE
A BILINGUAL PEOPLE

AND THAT WE GREW UP
WITH ENGLISH AND ASL.

BUT ASL LIT...

I THINK IF WE JUST
TALK ABOUT IT THAT WAY,

IT LIMITS US,
AND IT FUNNELS US

INTO JUST ONE PARTICULAR STRAIN
OF THINKING AND CREATIVITY.

I MEAN, WE DO HAVE
THINGS WRITTEN IN ENGLISH.

WE HAVE CREATED MATERIALS
IN A WRITTEN FORMAT.

YOU GO TO A LIBRARY,

THERE'S BOOKS,
THERE'S VIDEOS, EVERYTHING.

AND IF YOU OPEN IT UP
TO INCLUDE DEAF LIT AND ASL LIT,

THERE WILL BE
A LOT MORE THERE.

ASL LIT MIGHT SEEM
VERY LIMITING,

AND THEN YOU'D ALSO HAVE
TWO DIFFERENT SECTIONS

TO EVEN LOOK UNDER.

I DON'T THINK DEAF PEOPLE GET
ENOUGH CREDIT IN THE COMMUNITY

FOR HAVING THE FACILITY
IN BOTH LANGUAGES,

AND THAT'S WHY I FEEL LIKE
HAVING BOTH THESE STRAINS

BUT UNDER ONE CATEGORY
MAKES IT A LOT CLEARER.

BERNARD SAYS, I THINK
THAT I CAN TAKE

ALL THESE DIFFERENCES
OF OPINION

AND MAYBE PUT THEM IN...
INTO ONE PARTICULAR QUILT.

CLAYTON SEEMS TO RELATE
TO BONNIE'S THINKING,

AND I BELIEVE THAT GIL
IS PART OF THIS, TOO,

AND I THINK EVERYBODY AGREES
TO SOME EXTENT OR ANOTHER.

DRAMA, OF COURSE, GOES
INTO A PARTICULAR CATEGORY,

AND THEN THE WHOLE THING ABOUT
THEATER OF THE DEAF, WHATEVER,

CAN GO UNDER
THE "DEAF" RUBRIC.

BUT I THINK WE HAVE
A PROBLEM HERE BECAUSE OF SAM.

I WANT TO KNOW
WHERE SAM STANDS ON THIS,

BECAUSE HE IS LOOKING
AT SOMETHING VERY INTERESTING.

IF I UNDERSTAND
WHERE SAM IS COMING FROM,

YOUR VERY EXCITING RESEARCH
AND YOUR WORK THAT YOU'RE DOING,

UM, IS REALLY GROUNDBREAKING
AND EXCITING.

AND HE HAS COINED THE TERM
"SIGN LANGUAGE STUDIES,"

AND THAT'S THE FIELD
OF LANGUAGE STUDY

THAT HE'S ENGAGED WITH.

AND SO, THAT LOOKS
NOT JUST AT ASL,

BUT SIGN LANGUAGE
IN GENERAL.

SO, SAM, WOULD YOU
MIND EXPLAINING

A LITTLE BIT MORE
ABOUT THAT?

SO, TELL US
WHAT'S GOING ON,

YOUR REASONING FOR CALLING
SOMETHING SIGN LANGUAGE STUDIES.

BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE,
PERHAPS, UH...

WE CAN INFLUENCE
SAM'S THINKING A LITTLE BIT

AND MAYBE MOVE HIM
A LITTLE BIT MORE

OVER TO THE "ASL LIT" PART
OF THIS CONTINUUM.

UH, THE DRAMA FROM GIL

AND THE DIFFERENT WAYS
THAT BONNIE HAS FRAMED THIS,

MAYBE WE CAN BRING THESE
ALL TOGETHER.

WE WANT TO GET TO THE POINT
WHERE "DEAF LIT" MAKES SENSE

AND THAT THEN WE CAN
HAVE IT DIVERSIFY

INTO ALL OF THE DIFFERENT GENRES
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

YOU KNOW, IF WE TALK ABOUT
SOMETHING "OF THE DEAF,"

"OF THE DEAF," PERIOD,
THEN YOU GO INTO

ALL THE DIFFERENT SECTIONS THAT
MIGHT WORK UNDER THAT CATEGORY.

IS THAT ALL RIGHT, CONNIE,
IF I OFFER THE FLOOR

OVER TO SAM TO EXPLAIN
WHAT HE'S UP TO THESE DAYS?

CONNIE SAYS,
I THINK THAT'S FINE.

YEAH, THAT'S FINE.
GO AHEAD.

AND SAM SAYS, WELL,
I'M GONNA ANSWER IT,

BUT I'M GONNA ANSWER IT GOING
THE LONG WAY AROUND THE BLOCK.

IS THERE OR IS THERE NOT

SOMETHING CALLED
"BLACK LITERATURE"? RIGHT?

NOW, OBVIOUSLY...I MEAN,
I HAVEN'T TAKEN IT MYSELF,

BUT WE DO KNOW THERE'S
ENGLISH LITERATURE,

EMPHASIS ON THE "ENGLISH,"
WHICH IS THE LANGUAGE,

BUT BLACK LITERATURE DOESN'T
NECESSARILY HAVE A LANGUAGE.

IT'S ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE, RIGHT?

HOW WOULD YOU GO FURTHER
INTO CATEGORIZING THAT?

SO, FROM WHERE I STAND,
IT LOOKS LIKE, TO ME,

WE ARE TRYING TO HAVE
ALL THESE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES.

THERE'S ENGLISH,
THERE'S FRENCH, WHATEVER,

THERE'S BLACK LITERATURE,
ALL THESE THINGS,

BUT IT MIGHT MEAN
DIFFERENT THINGS.

AND WE'RE TRYING
TO FIGURE OUT

HOW WE FIT IN THESE
OTHER CONSTRUCTS,

AND THAT CONCERNS ME.

SO, HERE'S THE REASONING
FOR WHAT I'M DOING

AND HOW I LOOK AT THIS.

"DEAF LIT"...FOR ME,
I DON'T THINK...

THAT DOESN'T CAPTURE IT,

BECAUSE WHERE IS
THE LANGUAGE PART?

LIKE I SAID, THAT'S WHAT
MAKES DEAF PEOPLE UNIQUE.

THAT'S WHAT CAUSES THIS
BIFURCATION OF CATEGORIES,

IS BECAUSE THE LANGUAGE
IS DIFFERENT,

THE COMMUNICATION IS DIFFERENT,
AND SO I THINK ASL

IS WHAT MAKES
DEAF PEOPLE UNIQUE,

AND IT'S NOT JUST CULTURE,
IT'S OUR LANGUAGE.

THE CULTURE,
OF COURSE, GROWS,

AND IT'S, OF COURSE,
INTERTWINED WITH THE LANGUAGE,

BUT THE HEAVIEST WEIGHT
IN THIS CONVERSATION

SHOULD ALWAYS BE FOCUSED
ON THE LANGUAGE.

AND SO WHERE WE PUT ASL,
AT THE TOP OR THE BOTTOM,

I DON'T KNOW,
BUT AS PER YOUR QUESTION,

I DON'T NECESSARILY
HAVE AN ANSWER.

I MEAN, WE REALLY NEED
TO TALK ABOUT ASL LIT,

LIKE, WHAT IS IT?

WHY IS IT OFF
IN THE WOODS SOMEWHERE?

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE COME
TO A DEAF LITERATURE CONFERENCE,

THEY COME TO A PANEL.

WHAT IS DEAF LITERATURE ANYWAY?

THEY WANT TO KNOW
WHAT ASL LIT IS.

SO, IS IT JUST ONE THING?

ASL LITERATURE
AND ITS RELATIONSHIP

TO OTHER ASPECTS
OF OTHER KINDS OF LITERATURE...

DOES IT HAVE THE SAME
RELATIONSHIP OR NOT?

CONNIE SAYS, WELL...

PERHAPS WE CAN FOCUS
OUR DISCUSSION NOW

JUST ON LITERATURE.
LET'S CLARIFY THAT.

BECAUSE DEAF LITERATURE
AND OTHER SORTS OF LITERATURE,

MAYBE THAT'S WHERE
WE NEED TO BE FOCUSING

OUR ENERGIES RIGHT NOW.

SO...WE TALK ABOUT
WHETHER WE AGREE WITH THAT?

OK. BERNARD, YOU DON'T
WANT TO ADDRESS THIS?

IS THERE SOMEBODY ELSE
WHO WANTS TO?

LYNN SAYS, I CAN RESPOND
TO BOTH OF THESE CONCERNS.

OK. ASL LIT IS ABOUT ASL.

IT'S ABOUT AMERICAN
SIGN LANGUAGE. THAT'S RIGHT.

AND OF COURSE, THERE IS
TRANSLATIONS IN THEATER,

AND THERE'S ALL THESE
DIFFERENT CATEGORIES

AND ALL THE THINGS
WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT

AND ALL THESE STUDIES,
BUT DEAF STUDIES...

LIKE, THERE'S BLACK STUDIES,
AND THERE'S BLACK HISTORY,

AND THERE'S BLACK
LITERATURE, I ASSUME.

I'M AGREEING WITH YOU, SAM.

SAM SAYS, IT WAS A LITTLE
AWKWARD THE WAY I PUT IT.

LYNN SAYS, OH, SOMEBODY
OUT THERE HAS AN ANSWER.

THEY COULD ADDRESS THIS
LATER MAYBE.

BUT I'M JUST SAYING
THAT WE NEED TO FOCUS

SPECIFICALLY ON ASL LIT,
AND THEN, FROM UNDER THERE,

WE WOULD HAVE
A LOT MORE CATEGORIES.

THERE'S A LOT OF PRACTICES,
EXPERIMENTATION,

AND THERE'S A WEALTH
OF INFORMATION IN THERE.

AND SO WHEN YOU LOOK
AT THE LINGUISTICS

AND THE PLAY WITH THAT...
I MEAN, WE GROW UP,

WE HAD NO EXPOSURE
TO THIS.

I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT
THAT WE PROVIDE THIS EXPOSURE

ONCE WE HAVE
THESE DEFINITIONS

AND DEVELOP THE REASONING
BEHIND OUR CATEGORIES,

TAKE IT FORWARD
THAT WAY.

CONNIE SAYS...

SO, HOWARD UNIVERSITY
IN WASHINGTON, D.C...

SOMEBODY THERE ENVISIONED
HAVING A BLACK STUDIES MAJOR

OR A BLACK STUDIES DEPARTMENT,
BUT NOBODY WAS LOOKING AT

WHAT THE LANGUAGE WAS
WITH EVERYTHING.

LATER ON, THEY CALLED IT
AFRICAN AMERICAN STUDIES

OR AFRO AMERICAN STUDIES.

BUT, UH...BUT THEY HAVE
AFRO AMERICAN HISTORY

AND LITERATURE
AND WHAT HAVE YOU.

IS THERE WOMEN STUDIES?
THERE'S WOMEN STUDIES

AND WOMEN HISTORY
AND WOMEN'S LIT.

AND THERE'S ALL THESE
DIFFERENT CATEGORIES

OF OTHER UNDERSERVED
POPULATIONS.

AND SO I THINK THAT WE ARE
TRYING TO RECOGNIZE

OTHER GROUPS THAT HAVE
DONE THE SAME THING

WITH PUTTING "STUDIES"
AFTER THE NAME OF THE GROUP.

UH, BUT NOW WE'RE ADDING
THE OTHER FLY IN THE OINTMENT.

WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT LANGUAGE,

AND THAT'S A LITTLE BIT
DIFFERENT.

SO, MAYBE WE CAN ALL
ADDRESS THAT.

BERNARD SAYS,
WE NEED TO COME BACK

TO WHAT I SAID BEFORE
IN THE VERY BEGINNING,

ABOUT WHAT LITERATURE IS
AND THAT IT'S LIFE.

SO, OBVIOUSLY, THERE IS
WRITTEN LITERATURE,

THERE ARE WRITTEN MATERIALS,

AND AS WELL, THERE'S THE ORAL
TRADITION OF OUR MATERIALS.

NOW BEFORE,
BACK IN THE DAY,

SOMETHING WASN'T
CONSIDERED LITERATURE

UNLESS IT WAS
WRITTEN DOWN.

BUT SLOWLY THINGS
ARE STARTING TO CHANGE.

AND I UNDERSTAND LITERATURE,
WRITTEN AND ORAL,

BEING UNDER THE RUBRIC
OF THAT UMBRELLA TERM

THE WAY BONNIE HAS IT.

OK. SO, WITH THAT
IN MIND...

I'M A LITTLE NERVOUS
ABOUT SAYING THIS.

OK. BLACK LIT,
AS CONNIE SAID,

OK, IS AFRICAN AMERICAN
LITERATURE NOW.

BUT...WE...MAYBE
WE COULD USE THE TERM

"BIG-D DEAF LIT,"
NOT THE LITTLE "d,"

BUT WE WOULD SPELL IT
WITH A BIG "D."

DEAF LIT.
DEAF LITERATURE.

BECAUSE I THINK IT REFERS
TO DEAF PEOPLE, RIGHT?

SO, ASL IS AMERICAN
SIGN LANGUAGE.

ALL RIGHT, WE ALL UNDERSTAND
IT'S AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE.

BUT THAT'S NOT REALLY
THE TOTALITY

OF WHAT WE ARE
AND WHAT WE'RE ABOUT.

WE'RE NOT JUST
ABOUT OUR LANGUAGE.

WE'RE ABOUT MORE THAN THAT.
WE'RE A CULTURE.

WE HAVE A HISTORY.
WE HAVE HERITAGE.

WE HAVE
ALL THESE THINGS.

IF WE ONLY FOCUS ON ONE THING--
AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE--

THAT NEGATES ALL THE OTHER
THINGS THAT MAKE US WHO WE ARE.

SO, IF WE WERE TO CHANGE IT
TO "ASL LIT," YOU'RE RIGHT.

BONNIE SAID BEFORE
THAT WOULD BE TOO LIMITING,

IT WOULD FOCUS
JUST ON THE LANGUAGE

AND NONE OF THE OTHER THINGS
INVOLVED IN IT.

BUT YOU COULD
ADD UNDER THAT...

GIVE A BROAD EXAMPLE
OF, LIKE, WHO WE ARE,

SOMETHING THAT REALLY RESONATES
AND SAYS WHO WE ARE AS PEOPLE.

WHAT REPRESENTS US?

WE ARE MORE THAN JUST
THE LANGUAGE WE USE.

WE ARE A PEOPLE.

AND SO WE ARE A PEOPLE
WHO HAVE OUR OWN CULTURE

AND OUR OWN HISTORY
AND OUR OWN BELIEFS...

AND THAT BROADENS OUT
THE REPRESENTATIONS

IN TERMS OF LITERATURE.

SO, I THINK WE NEED
TO KEEP THIS IN MIND,

THAT IF WE WERE TO CALL THIS
UMBRELLA TERM "DEAF LIT"

WITH A CAPITAL "D,"

AND THEN "SIGN LANGUAGE
STUDIES," OF COURSE,

WOULD BE AN EVEN BIGGER
UMBRELLA TERM

WHICH COULD BREAK IT DOWN
INTO OTHER TERMS,

IT'S JUST A SUGGESTION
THAT I HAVE

TO FRAME IT DIFFERENTLY.

GIL SAYS, WELL, I'VE MET
SO MANY PEOPLE HERE, YOU KNOW,

AND I'VE LEARNED SO MUCH
DURING THIS TIME,

AND I SEE A COUPLE
OF DIFFERENT GROUPS

THAT I'VE RUN INTO HERE.

SO, AS SAM SAYS,
SIGN LANGUAGE STUDIES.

THEN I'VE MET SOME OTHER PEOPLE,
LIKE BEN BAHAN,

AND HE'S TALKING ABOUT USING
THE TERM "DEAF STUDIES."

SO NOW YOU HAVE TWO CAMPS
THAT ARE ADDRESSING IT

IN TWO DIFFERENT WAYS
THAT WAY.

SO, THE SAME AS "ASL LIT"
AND "DEAF LIT."

IT SEEMS LIKE THINGS
HAVE ALREADY BEEN SET UP.

WE ALREADY HAVE
THESE TWO DIFFERENT GROUPS.

AND NOW, IF WE TALK ABOUT
"BIG-D DEAF LIT"--

YOU KNOW, AND ASL
IS IN THAT, OF COURSE.

I DO AGREE THAT
THAT WOULD BE IN IT

BECAUSE THAT INCLUDES ORAL FOLKS
AND HARD-OF-HEARING FOLKS,

AND THAT WIDENS
THE SCOPE

OF THE DEMOGRAPHIC
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

IT JUST GETS
MORE COMPLICATED.

CLAYTON SAYS...

THERE'S ALL OF THESE
DISPARATE VIEWS.

AND THIS RELATES
TO ATTITUDE AND POLITICS,

AND THAT'S PROBLEMATIC.

I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK
AT THE BROAD SCOPE

OF THE U.S. OR EUROPE
OR WHEREVER

AND LOOK AT THE PROGRAMS
THAT ARE ALREADY OFFERED.

SO, THERE'S SPANISH LITERATURE
OR BLACK STUDIES OR...

WELL, AS YOU SAID,
AFRO AMERICAN STUDIES.

I MEAN, THERE ARE THINGS
ALREADY EXTENT OUT THERE.

WHY DON'T WE JUST FOLLOW
THE RUBRICS

THAT HAVE ALREADY
BEEN ESTABLISHED?

I THINK WE CAN
JUST FOLLOW THOSE.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S
NATIVE AMERICAN,

THERE'S BLACK,
WHAT HAVE YOU.

WHY DON'T WE JUST FOLLOW
THE COMMON UNDERSTANDING

OF HOW OTHER THINGS
ARE SET UP

AND AVOID THE POLITICS AND
THE ATTITUDE AND THE WRANGLING?

I JUST DON'T THINK
WE NEED TO GO THERE.

AND SAM SAYS,
LET ME JUST CLARIFY.

I WANT TO
GO BACK A BIT.

IF WE CALL SOMETHING
"DEAF STUDIES,"

THAT IS A REALLY MUCH LARGER,
BROADER CATEGORY BECAUSE...

SO, THE ASL LIT PART
IS MISSING FROM THAT,

AND YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I DIDN'T
EXPLAIN IT VERY CLEARLY BEFORE.

WE ALSO SAY "DEAF STUDIES" AS
WELL AS "SIGN LANGUAGE STUDIES,"

SO IT'S EVEN MORE COMPLICATED
THAN YOU EVEN KNEW,

AND I'LL GET INTO THAT
SOME OTHER TIME.

BUT THIS WHOLE THING,
I THINK,

IS NOT REALLY WORTH
TALKING ABOUT.

THAT'S A WHOLE OTHER LINGUISTIC
AND EDUCATIONAL CONSTRUCT.

BUT WHAT I'D LIKE TO OFFER IS
SOME COURSES THAT I'M PLANNING,

ONE IN ASL LIT
AND A DEAF LIT COURSE.

AND THESE WOULD BE
SEPARATE COURSES.

THAT WOULD BE ONE WAY THAT YOU
COULD TAKE CARE OF THIS,

BECAUSE YOU HAVE DEAF LIT
AS THE OVERARCHING THING,

BUT I DON'T LIKE THAT.
IT DOESN'T QUITE DO IT FOR ME.

IT SKEWS THINGS
ONE WAY OR THE OTHER,

AND WE NEED TO GIVE
EQUAL WEIGHT

TO THE WRITTEN
AND THE SIGNED MATERIALS.

SO, IF YOU SAY
"DEAF STUDIES" AS THE TERM,

THEN YOU HAVE "LITERATURE"
AS A TERM UNDER THAT.

THEN YOU HAVE "CULTURE"
AND "HISTORY" AND "EDUCATION"

AS OTHER SEPARATE
CATEGORIES,

AND THEN UNDER
THE "LITERATURE" CATEGORY,

NO NAMES, NOT DEAF,
NOT ANYTHING, JUST LITERATURE,

THEN THAT GOES INTO THE TWO
STREAMS OF "ASL" AND "DEAF."

IS THAT CLEAR?

SO, YOU START WITH AN EVEN
HIGHER ORDER OF TAXONOMY.

CONNIE SAYS, I'VE SEEN
SOME HANDS OUT IN THE AUDIENCE.

AND IF YOU ARE GOING
TO ASK A QUESTION,

I WOULD JUST ASK TO WHOM
YOU'RE GOING TO ADDRESS IT,

OR IF IT'S FOR EVERYBODY
ON THE PANEL.

AND MATTHEW WILL BE
COPY-SIGNING FROM THE STAGE.

THE QUESTION
IS FOR SAM.

I AM EXPERIENCING
A BIG CONFLICT HERE.

I AM A PLAYWRIGHT.

AND TO ME, WHAT'S IMPORTANT
IS THE CONTENT OF THE STORY.

IF IT'S IN ASL FORM,
HOW THE STORY IS COMMUNICATED,

THAT'S FINE.
THAT'S ONE EXAMPLE.

AND I'VE WRITTEN PLAYS...

I WROTE A PLAY
ABOUT LAURENT CLERC.

I WROTE THIS PLAY ABOUT HIM,
AND WE TAPED IT...

AND HIS RELATIONSHIP
TO ALICE COGSWELL,

AND THEN IT WAS TRANSLATED,
AND IT WAS WRITTEN INTO ENGLISH.

SO, IT WAS
A DEAF LITERATURE PLAY,

BUT IT FIT
INTO BOTH CATEGORIES.

CLERC. LAURENT CLERC.
THAT'S WHAT THAT SIGN WAS.

SAM SAYS, OH, LAST NIGHT.
YES, WE SAW SOMEBODY...

WE SAW THAT ONE.
OK. FINE.

YES, YOU'RE RIGHT.
YOU'RE RIGHT.

YEAH, I THINK
IT REALLY DOES

GO INTO BOTH CATEGORIES
QUITE NICELY, ABSOLUTELY,

AND THE REASON BEING
THAT IT'S ASL LIT...

AND THAT WOULD BE
IF WE WERE JUST LOOKING AT

THE LANGUAGE
USED IN THE PLAY,

AND I THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY
INTERESTING HOW THAT WAS DONE,

HOW YOU SHOWED CLERC
SIGNING VERY DIFFERENTLY

TO REFLECT THE HISTORICAL TIME
IN WHICH HE WAS LIVING.

THAT'S REALLY COOL.

SO, THE PARTICULAR LANGUAGE
USED WITHIN THE PLAY

WOULD PUT IT
IN ONE CATEGORY,

BUT AS YOU SAID, IT'S DRAMA,
IT'S DEAF LITERATURE,

IT'S ABOUT THE DEAF EXPERIENCE
IN THAT IN THE SAME PLAY.

SO THE SAME PLAY
COULD FIT WITHIN THAT.

SO IT'S TWO DIFFERENT
CATEGORIES.

THAT'S MY RESPONSE.
I'M AGREEING.

RIGHT.

BERNARD SAYS, YEAH, THE LIGHTS
ARE GOING UP AND DOWN.

I THINK WE NEED
TO FIX THEM.

BONNIE SAYS, THAT'S BETTER.

ANOTHER QUESTION
FROM THE AUDIENCE.

ALL OF THIS WRANGLING BACK
AND FORTH ABOUT LIT...WHATEVER.

WHY NOT AMERICAN
DEAF LITERATURE AS A TITLE?

CONNIE SAYS, IS THAT QUESTION
DIRECTED TO ANYBODY,

ANYBODY IN PARTICULAR?
SOMEBODY WANT TO TAKE IT?

THE NEXT QUESTION IS,
I'M WONDERING ABOUT

WHY NOT JUST CALLING IT
SIGN LANGUAGE LITERATURE?

CONNIE SAYS, DOES ANYBODY
WANT TO RESPOND TO THAT?

THE QUESTION IS,
IF I GO INTO A LIBRARY,

THERE'S ALL DIFFERENT
CLASSIFICATIONS

THAT I CAN LOOK FOR.

BUT IF I ASK FOR ASL LITERATURE,
WHERE ARE THE BOOKS?

WHERE AM I GONNA LOOK?
UNDER JUST "LITERATURE," OR...

YOU KNOW,
I'D BE CONFOUNDED.

IS THERE DEAF LITERATURE,
OR THERE IS ANOTHER SECTION?

IT WOULD BE
VERY CONFUSING.

LIKE, IN NEW YORK CITY,
THERE'S A BIG BOOKSTORE,

AND IF I WERE TO GO IN THERE,
WHAT WOULD I LOOK UNDER?

WHAT WOULD THE LABEL BE

OF THAT PARTICULAR
SECTION OF THE STORE?

I THINK IT WOULD SAY
"DEAF LIT" MAYBE OR...

YOU KNOW, WOULD IT BE
JUST A DEAF AREA?

THERE'S ALL DIFFERENT
CATEGORIES,

AND I'D BE LOOKING
ALL OVER THE PLACE.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT
IT WOULD BE UNDER.

WHY NOT "DEAF STUDIES"?

THAT'S JUST AN EASIER
CLASSIFICATION.

CONNIE SAID, IS THAT
A QUESTION OR A COMMENT?

WAIT A MINUTE.

ARE YOU MAKING A COMMENT,
A SUGGESTION, AN IDEA?

WHAT FORM IS THAT COMMENT?
IT'S A QUESTION.

OK, GO AHEAD.
WHAT EXACTLY IS THE QUESTION?

THIS QUESTION
GOES TO SAM.

SAM SAYS, YES?

SAM SAYS, REMEMBER,
IF THERE'S "LITERATURE,"

IF THERE'S "HISTORY,"
IF THERE'S "CULTURE,"

ALL THESE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES,
AND "LINGUISTICS"

UNDER A LARGER HEADING,
IF YOU HAVE "LITERATURE,"

THEN YOU CAN SPLIT IT
INTO "DEAF LIT" AND "ASL LIT."

ACTUALLY, ASL AND DEAF
ARE SEPARATE

UNDER THE TERM
OF "LITERATURE,"

WHICH IS ITSELF
A SEPARATE CATEGORY

WITH SEVERAL OTHERS
UNDER "SIGN LANGUAGE STUDIES."

THE QUESTION SAID,
BUT UNDER "DEAF STUDIES"?

UNDER "DEAF STUDIES"
AS DIFFERENT CATEGORIES?

IT'S SEPARATE?

CONNIE'S INDICATING
SOMEBODY IN THE AUDIENCE.

THE QUESTION
IS FOR CLAYTON.

LAST NIGHT, EVERYBODY
WAS TALKING ABOUT...

THE IDEA OF ASL POETRY,

AND SOME PEOPLE WERE SAYING
THAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW

IF IT WAS A PERFORMANCE
OR IF IT WAS POETRY,

AND AFTER A FEW DAYS
OF THIS CONFERENCE,

I WONDER
WHAT YOUR VIEW IS.

WHAT WOULD YOUR DEFINITION BE
OF THE BOUNDARIES

OF WHAT ASL POETRY MEANS?
COULD YOU GIVE AN EXAMPLE?

WOULD YOU CONSIDER
FOLKLORE, STORYTELLING...

OR WHERE DO YOU
LAND ALL THIS?

CLAYTON SAYS...

1987 WAS THE FIRST NATIONAL DEAF
POETRY CONFERENCE RIGHT HERE,

AND WE ALL GOT TOGETHER,
AND I LEARNED SO MUCH.

WE ALL LEARNED A LOT
FROM EACH OTHER.

IT WAS A GREAT INFUSION.

AND I'VE BEEN THINKING
ABOUT THINGS EVER SINCE,

AND I THINK IT'S REALLY
ABOUT THE LANGUAGE.

I MEAN, IT'S THE GAME
OF PLAYING WITH THE LANGUAGE

AND EXPRESSING YOURSELF
IN ASL POETRY.

IT'S FIRST AND FOREMOST
ALWAYS THE LANGUAGE.

BUT I'M SEEING HOW MOVING THINGS
INTO DIFFERENT CATEGORIES

IS HELPFUL IN A SENSE,

AND THAT'S MAKING
MORE SENSE TO ME.

SO, SOMEBODY BROUGHT UP
PETER COOK A WHILE AGO,

AND YES, HE IS AMAZING.

I MEAN, THAT IS ART.
WOW. I SEE IT AS ART.

BUT DO YOU CALL WHAT HE DOES
"ASL POETRY?"

I'M NOT REALLY SURE.
I'M STILL QUESTIONING THAT.

I'M NOT AUTHORITATIVE. I'M NOT
THE LAST WORD IN ALL THIS.

I THINK WE NEED MORE DEAF POETS
TO GET TOGETHER

AND DISCUSS
ISSUES LIKE THIS--

WHAT'S POETRY?
WHAT'S ART?

AND I'M NOT THE LAST
SAY-SO ON THIS.

I CAN'T GIVE
A DEFINITIVE ANSWER.

I'M HOPING 20 OR 30 YEARS
DOWN THE ROAD,

MORE PEOPLE WILL HAVE
GOTTEN TOGETHER.

LYNN SAYS, I HOPE SO.

CLAYTON SAYS, I DO, TOO.

DOES THAT ANSWER
YOUR QUESTION?

THE QUESTION
FROM THE AUDIENCE IS,

CAN HEARING PEOPLE
CREATE OR PERFORM ASL LIT?

SAM IS ANSWERING,

WELL, IF WE FOLLOW
THE CONSTRUCT

OF "LITERATURE" BEING
THE OVERARCHING THEME,

ONE SIDE IS "ASL,"
ONE IS "DEAF LIT,"

I THINK THAT
THEY'RE VERY DIFFERENT,

BUT IF IT WERE TO COME UP

THAT A HEARING PERSON
CREATES SOMETHING,

THEY HAVE AN IDEA...

IT COULD BE UNDER
"DEAF OR HEARING ASL LIT."

IT COULD BE ANOTHER SPINOFF
OF THAT CATEGORY.

CONNIE'S SAYING, WE'RE ABOUT TO
GET OVER OUR TIME LIMIT HERE.

SO, THERE'S
ONE MORE QUESTION

THAT'S SUPPOSED TO GO
TO ALL OF YOU.

OK, THIS IS FOR BERNARD.

TRANSLATION...

THAT WOULD GO UNDER
"ASL LIT"?

THAT'S THE FIRST QUESTION,
AND THE SECOND THING,

DO DEAF PEOPLE...

YOU KNOW, WE DEPEND ON BOOKS,
AND WE DEPEND ON TRANSLATION,

AND SOMETIMES PEOPLE
DON'T CREATE THINGS

IN AN ORIGINAL FORMAT.

IF IT'S A TRANSLATION,
HOW IS IT ASL LIT?

BONNIE SAID, WELL,
THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH IT.

THAT'S FINE.

SOME PEOPLE DEPEND
ON THEIR LIFE EXPERIENCES,

AND THEY COLLECT...COLLECT
A GRAND AMOUNT OF MATERIAL.

I HAVE MY OWN
LIFE EXPERIENCES.

SOMETIMES
I DO TRANSLATIONS,

AND SOMETIMES IT'S FROM
MY OWN LIFE AND IT'S ORIGINAL.

SO, AS I SAID, THERE'S
DIFFERENT WAYS TO GO ABOUT IT.

TRANSLATIONS ARE FINE,

BECAUSE IT'S STILL
THE BEAUTY OF THE LANGUAGE.

IT'S USING THE LANGUAGE
IN THIS BEAUTIFUL WAY

WITHIN THE TRANSLATION.

THEN TRANSLATION
CAN BE CREATED

AND FROM SOMETHING YOU'VE EVEN
WRITTEN IN ENGLISH,

AND THEN IF YOU CREATE STORIES
THAT ARE JUST SOMETHING

THAT ARE BASED ON YOUR LIFE,
THAT'S FINE.

IT CAN FIT INTO ANY OF THESE
CATEGORIES, AND THEY DON'T...

ONE DOESN'T OBVIATE
ANY OF THE OTHERS.

CONNIE SAYS, GIL, YOU HAVE
SOMETHING YOU WANT TO ADD?

GIL SAYS, YES.

ALL OF THIS
MAKES ME THINK...

EVERYBODY. THIS IS ALL
MAKING ME THINK.

ABOUT 5 OR 6 MONTHS AGO,
I WAS ASKED TO COME HERE

TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS
ASL LITERATURE CONFERENCE,

AND I HAD A QUESTION.

IF THIS CONFERENCE
WAS DEAF LITERATURE,

WOULD WE BE HERE IF IT WAS
CALLED DEAF LITERATURE?

I'M WONDERING WHAT
THE ANSWER TO THAT WOULD BE.

WOULD YOU FEEL DIFFERENTLY
ABOUT IT IF THE TITLE

OF THE WHOLE CONFERENCE
WAS SOMETHING DIFFERENT?

QUESTION
FROM THE AUDIENCE.

I THINK THAT'S
A STRANGE QUESTION.

IT'S SOMETHING I'VE BEEN
STRUGGLING WITH, TOO,

THE IDEA OF ASL.

IT'S AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE,
AND THAT MEANS

THERE ARE HEARING PEOPLE
WHO CAN SIGN, BUT...

YOU KNOW, AND THERE
ARE DEAF PEOPLE

WHO LIVE IN AMERICA,
SO WHAT IS IT?

IT'S A MELANGE.
THERE'S ALSO SPANISH.

THERE'S ENGLISH.
WHAT DOES "AMERICAN" MEAN?

AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE.

HAS TO BE DEAF?

OR ANYBODY WHO CAN SIGN?

WHERE DOES THAT
FIT INTO THIS?

A WOMAN IN THE AUDIENCE
SAID SOMETHING ABOUT IT,

BUT WHAT ABOUT
"DEAF SIGN LANGUAGE"

INSTEAD OF "AMERICAN
SIGN LANGUAGE"?

LYNN SAYS...

THIS LIMITS OURSELVES
TO TALKING ABOUT

THE PHYSICAL PART OF OUR BEING
AND THE SIGNING.

THERE ARE CODA's.

THERE ARE HEARING CHILDREN
OF DEAF ADULTS

WHO SIGN WITH FACILITY
JUST LIKE THEIR DEAF PARENTS.

"AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE"
IS A GOOD-ENOUGH TITLE FOR IT.

IT IS USED BY...
MOSTLY BY DEAF PEOPLE,

AND EVERYBODY PRETTY MUCH
UNDERSTANDS THAT.

THE COMMENT IS,
BUT ASL IS DIFFERENT.

SAM SAYS...

EVERYBODY CAN LEARN IT
WHO CAN SEE.

I MEAN, IT'S JUST A THEORY.
IT'S A CONCEPT.

GIL SAYS...WHAT ABOUT AMERICAN
INDIAN SIGN LANGUAGE?

I MEAN, THEY CAN HEAR,
AND THEY CAN TALK,

BUT THEY'RE USING
THIS COMMUNICATION SYSTEM.

I MEAN, THAT DIDN'T MEAN
THEY HAD TO BE DEAF

TO USE SIGN LANGUAGE.

SO, YOU KNOW, ON MARTHA'S
VINEYARD, HEARING PEOPLE SIGNED.

SO I DON'T THINK
YOU HAVE TO PUT "DEAF"

IN FRONT OF
THE SIGN LANGUAGE.

CLAYTON SAYS,
THERE'S AMERICAN ENGLISH.

DO WE SAY
"AMERICAN ENGLISH"?

AND DO WE PUT "HEARING"
IN FRONT OF THAT?

ONLY HEARING PEOPLE
USE AMERICAN ENGLISH?

I JUST DON'T THINK
WE NEED THAT DESCRIPTOR.

QUESTION FROM THE AUDIENCE
IS, I'M DEAF...

BUT WHAT'S UNIQUE
ABOUT ME?

WHAT'S UNIQUE ABOUT ME?

OF COURSE, I USE ASL.

I CAN SEE WHY "ASL LITERATURE"
MIGHT BE A BETTER FIT,

BECAUSE I, AS A DEAF PERSON,
USE THAT AS MY LANGUAGE,

AND IT SHOWS MY CULTURE

AND ALL THOSE OTHER
ADDITIONAL ASPECTS.

SO, ASL...WELL, BACK TO YOU,
SAM, WHAT YOU SAID BEFORE.

SAM--YEAH. OK.
THAT'S FINE.

I'LL TAKE IT.
WHATEVER YOU WANT TO SAY.

THE PERSON'S COMMENT IS,

ALL THIS DISCUSSION
ABOUT ASL LIT...

ARE WE JUST LOOKING
AT THE LANGUAGE OR...

I MEAN, IF WE'RE LOOKING AT IT
JUST FROM THE LANGUAGE

AND THEN WE ADD
THE OVERLAY OF CULTURE

AND THEN WE'RE ADDING
OTHER ASPECTS,

MORE AND MORE
AND MORE TO IT,

TO THE IDEA
OF WHAT IT MEANS...

HOW DOES IT APPLY TO WHAT
YOU'RE LOOKING AT, SAM?

AM I CLEAR ABOUT THAT?

IF WE SAY
THAT IT'S DEAF...

AND THAT'S MORE GENERAL
POSSIBLY.

I MEAN, CAN WE BE
MORE SPECIFIC?

CONNIE SAYS, UH...CAN YOU
ANSWER THAT QUESTION, SAM?

SAM SAYS, I'M GOOD.
FINE. HA HA.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT
THAT WAS ABOUT. SORRY.

CONNIE SAYS, LET'S ASK
THE NEXT PERSON.

THE PROBLEM WITH THE DEFINITION
OF LITERATURE IS,

YES, YOU'VE GOT THIS
WRITTEN FORM ON ONE SIDE,

AND YOU HAVE THE ORAL FORM
ON THE OTHER SIDE.

AND, UH...I THINK
THAT SAM'S WORK,

TALKING ABOUT HAVING VIDEOTAPES
AND TRYING TO DECIDE

WHICH PART YOU WOULD
PUT THEM IN,

IF IT'S A TRANSLATION
OR AN ADAPTATION,

IF IT'S SOMETHING
THAT'S A WRITTEN MATERIAL.

I MEAN, CAN IT BE
WRITTEN AND TAPED,

AND THEN IT WOULD FIT
ONLY IN ONE CATEGORY?

AND THE OTHER QUESTION
THAT I HAVE

BEFORE YOU GET
TO THAT ONE IS

WHAT ABOUT BOOKS THAT ARE
WRITTEN BY HEARING PEOPLE

BUT THEY HAVE
DEAF FOLKS IN THEM?

THAT'S A CONTRADICTION,
I THINK.

CONNIE SAYS, I THROW THIS OUT
TO THE PANEL.

CLAYTON, YOU WANT
TO ANSWER THIS?

THE COMMENT FROM THE AUDIENCE IS
IT'S JUST NOT CLEAR.

WHAT ABOUT AN ADAPTATION?

ONCE IT'S DOCUMENTED
AND RECORDING,

IT'S FILMED OR SOMETHING,
AND THEN IT'S FROZEN...

BUT SIGN LANGUAGE IS MOVING.
IT'S SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

CLAYTON SAYS, WELL,
AS A WRITTEN FORM...

THAT'S KIND OF
AN INTERESTING TERM.

WE SAY "WRITTEN FORM."

IT REALLY SHOULD BE CONSIDERED
A DOCUMENTED FORM.

AND THAT'S WHAT
YOU MEAN, I THINK,

A DOCUMENTED FORM. SO WE DON'T
HAVE TO SAY "WRITTEN."

WE CAN SAY "DOCUMENTED."
I ACCEPT THAT.

THAT COULD BE
A RECORDING.

THE COMMENT IS,
IT DOESN'T MATTER EITHER WAY.

IT COULD BE WRITTEN,

OR IT COULD BE RECORDED
IN A VISUAL FORM.

SAM SAYS, OK.
AGAIN, DOCUMENTATION.

FILM AND WRITTEN,
EITHER WAY, IT'S STILL...

IT'S DIFFERENT
IN A SENSE.

IT STILL FITS UNDER
EITHER "WRITTEN"

OR "FILMED"
OR "DOCUMENTED."

I JUST WANTED TO ADD,

IT COULD STILL FIT
INTO DIFFERENT CATEGORIES

EVEN IF IT'S DOCUMENTED
IN ANY OF THOSE WAYS.

COMMENT FROM THE AUDIENCE.

WHAT ABOUT HEARING CHILDREN
WITH DEAF PARENTS?

THAT HAS TO BE
CONSIDERED, TOO.

THE COMMENT IS,
DEAF LIT...

SHOULD NOT BE LIMITED
JUST TO ASL.

THERE'S PERFORMANCES
BY THE DEAF AND NTD

AND PEOPLE FROM OTHER COUNTRIES
WHO COME HERE

AND LEARN
AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE

THEN PERFORM
ON THE STAGE.

SEEMS LIKE THERE COULD BE
A WORLD DEAF LIT.

ASL LIT,
ENGLISH DEAF LIT,

ALL DIFFERENT SORTS
OF LANGUAGES

HAVE THEIR OWN DEAF LIT.

THEATER HAS ITS OWN
DIFFERENT CATEGORIES,

AS HE SAID BEFORE.

DEAF WORLD LITERATURE.

AND NOW YOU MEET PEOPLE
FROM OTHER DIFFERENT...

OTHER COUNTRIES
WHO COME HERE,

AND WE'VE CREATING...
WE'RE CREATING

A WORLD LIT IN ESSENCE
BY ALL THESE DEAF PEOPLE

FROM OTHER COUNTRIES
COMING HERE.

GIL SAYS, I WANT TO
REMIND YOU ALL

THAT ANY ACADEMIC AREA,
UNIVERSITY, COLLEGE, WHATEVER,

HAS AN ENGLISH
DEPARTMENT,

AND UNDER THE ENGLISH
DEPARTMENT,

THEY HAVE WRITING,
AND THEY HAVE LITERATURE,

AND IT'S ALL UNDER
THE ENGLISH DEPARTMENT, RIGHT?

WRITING AND LITERATURE.

SO WE HAVE ASL, AND WE COULD
HAVE THE STREAM OF LITERATURE.

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?

I THINK WE MISSED SOME HANDS
IN THE BACK OF THE AUDIENCE.

THE COMMENT IS, ASL STORIES
NEED TO BE VIDEOTAPED.

YOU NEED TO BE ABLE
TO SEE THEM.

PEOPLE READ BOOKS IN ENGLISH
THAT ARE PUBLISHED.

SO, MY QUESTION RELATES
TO ASL LITERATURE

AND THE NEED TO BE DOCUMENTED,
TO BE VIDEOED

SO IT CAN CARRY ON
THROUGH TIME

SO THAT WE CAN STUDY IT
AS AN ART FORM OF LITERATURE,

ASL LITERATURE.
WOULD YOU AGREE?

GIL SAYS, I'M SORRY.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION.

SO, I'LL SAY IT AGAIN.

ASL DEPENDS ON THE VISUAL WAY OF
TRANSMISSION AND RECORDING IT,

STORIES AND THINGS BEING
DOCUMENTED IN VIDEOTAPE.

SO, IF SOMEBODY
WERE TO COME

AND THEY WANTED TO STUDY
ASL LITERATURE,

WHAT WOULD YOU SUGGEST
TO THAT PERSON?

THEY WANT TO STUDY
ASL LITERATURE.

HOW ON EARTH
WOULD THEY DO IT?

HOW WOULD ONE STUDY
ASL LITERATURE?

THAT'S WHAT
I'M TALKING ABOUT.

CONNIE SAYS, WHO WANTS
TO TAKE THAT?

LYNN SAYS, OF COURSE,
VIDEOTAPES.

I MEAN, OF COURSE,

WE HAVE SHELVES AND SHELVES
OF STORYTELLING.

WE HAVE SAM'S WORK.
WE'RE ADDING TO IT ALL THE TIME.

WE HAVE TECHNOLOGY NOW
THAT IS WORKING

VERY MUCH
TO OUR ADVANTAGE.

CONNIE SAYS, UH...

IF YOU TEACH A COURSE
CALLED "ASL LITERATURE,"

THEN IT WOULD HAVE TO BE
ALL VIDEOTAPED MATERIALS.

THERE WOULDN'T BE ANYTHING
THAT YOU WOULD LOOK AT

THAT WOULD BE WRITTEN.

DID YOU SAY YOU WANTED TO ADD
SOMETHING TO THAT, CLAYTON?

YEAH. CLAYTON SAID, CAN I ADD
TO WHAT YOU JUST SAID BEFORE

ABOUT TWO DIFFERENT STRAINS--
WRITTEN AND ASL?

OH, NO, THE ENGLISH LIT.
"ENGLISH LIT" AT THE TOP.

OK. SO, IT JUST MADE ME THINK,
LISTENING TO THIS, WOW.

WHERE IS ASL LITERATURE?

WHO...WHO'S STUDYING IT?

WHO HAS A DEGREE IN IT?
WHO HAD A Ph.D IN IT? NOBODY.

AND I THINK THAT CREATES
A BIG DIFFICULTY.

THERE'S NO ACADEMY
THAT'S STUDYING IT.

THE QUESTION IS,
WHEN YOU FIRST GET INTO

LEARNING ABOUT DEAF STUDIES
AND DEAF CULTURE,

AND I LEARNED ABOUT THIS

AND SAID, "WOW.
THAT'S FANTASTIC."

AND THEN NEXT I LEARNED
NOW THERE'S DEAF STUDIES.

THAT'S FANTASTIC, TOO.
I'M SO EXCITED.

NOW THERE'S ASL LITERATURE.
THAT'S WONDERFUL, TOO.

SO, THESE ARE ALL GREAT.
YOU KNOW, IT'S AMAZING.

I'VE BEEN SO IMPRESSED WITH
THE WHOLE TRAJECTORY OF ASL.

AND SO I'M TRYING
TO UNDERSTAND THEIR LANGUAGE.

I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND
WHAT IT IS.

I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND
SIGNS OR WHATEVER.

I'M TRYING TO GET
MORE AND MORE ABOUT ASL

AND KEEP THIS ASL
AND KEEP THIS LITERATURE GOING.

MATTHEW SAYS, EXCUSE ME.
I'M SORRY.

I CAN'T SEE YOU.
I CAN'T...I'M NOT GETTING...

A GENTLEMAN
IN THE AUDIENCE SAYS,

WE HAVE TO KEEP
WRITING IT.

WE HAVE TO KEEP THIS
GOING FORWARD.

MATTHEW SAYS, COULD YOU
PLEASE SIGN THAT AGAIN SLOWLY

SO I CAN COPY-SIGN IT?

ALL RIGHT.
I'M IN EDUCATION

AND HAVE BEEN
LEARNING A LOT.

I'M OLD, BUT I'M
STILL LEARNING.

OLD DOG, NEW TRICKS.

AND I THINK THAT WE NEED
MORE INFORMATION FOR CHILDREN.

DON'T MISUNDERSTAND ME.

YOU KNOW, I THINK
IT'S REALLY GREAT.

BUT I'VE BEEN VERY UPSET
THAT THERE ARE

NO MATERIALS FOR CHILDREN
TO LEARN THIS INFORMATION.

AND I THINK WE HAVE
PLENTY FOR ADULTS.

WE HAVE A LOT AT THE HIGHER
LEVEL FOR ADULTS.

BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING
TO BRING KIDS UP TO THE LEVEL

OF HAVING ANY MATERIALS
IN ASL FOR THEM TO LEARN,

AND SO WE NEED MORE
OF THAT FOR CHILDREN.

LYNN SAYS,
I CAN REPLY TO THAT.

THE FIRST TIME I OFFERED
ADULT-LEVEL CLASSES,

I REALIZED I NEEDED
TO TWEAK THEM.

I TOOK THE ADULT MATERIALS,
AND I'M GONNA BE WORKING SOON

WITH KINDERGARTENERS, AND I'M
GONNA HAVE KIDS TELL STORIES,

AND I'M GONNA
VIDEOTAPE THEM,

AND THE NEXT TIME
WE HAVE A CONFERENCE,

I'LL BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU
CHILDREN SIGNING THESE STORIES

AND SIGNING
ASL LITERATURE.

THE COMMENT IS,
LISTENING TO ALL OF THIS,

I AM STILL NOT SATISFIED.

NOBODY SEEMS TO BE AGREEING
WHAT ASL LITERATURE IS

OR DEAF STUDIES IS,
AND I DO NOT WANT TO LEAVE

WITHOUT HAVING SOME SORT
OF DEFINITIVE ANSWER.

AND GIL SAYS, WELL, WE ARE HERE
WITHOUT THE INTENTION

OF COMING UP WITH SOME SORT
OF DEFINITIVE PRONOUNCEMENT

ABOUT WHAT THIS ALL IS.

WE'RE JUST IN DISCUSSION.

CLAYTON SAYS,
AGAIN, THERE IS

NO ASL LITERATURE ACADEMY
AND CANON AND STUDIES YET.

I DIDN'T SAY THAT RIGHT.
LET ME START OVER.

WITHOUT AN ASL ART FORM
OR STUDIES OF IT

IN A HIGHER FORM, THEN WE CAN'T
HAVE ASL LIT, I THINK.

LYNN SAYS, I DISAGREE.

BERNARD SAYS, I FEEL
SOMEWHAT THE SAME.

MAYBE EVERYBODY DOES.

WE'RE GONNA BE
LEAVING HERE,

AND WE'RE STILL IN THE PLACE
WHERE WE STARTED.

I'M LEAVING
WITH THIS FEELING

THAT WE...WE HAVEN'T
REACHED CONSENSUS.

THERE IS A COURSE AT GALLAUDET
CALLED "DEAF IN LIT,"

AND WHAT THIS MEANS
IS STORIES AND BOOKS AND POETRY

THAT CONTAIN DEAF CHARACTERS
WITHIN THE CONTENT.

OK. SO, IF YOU GO
TO THE LIBRARY

AND YOU DO A SEARCH,
ALL KINDS OF BOOKS

AND STORIES AND THINGS COME UP
RELATED TO DEAF PEOPLE.

AND I ALSO FOUND,
YOU PUT IN "DEAF FICTION..."

"DEAF FICTION,"
THERE ARE TONS...

IT'S LIKE A THOUSAND BOOKS
ARE CITED THERE

WITH DEAF CHARACTERS
IN THEM.

THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION
OF WHERE DO YOU GO

WHEN YOU GO INTO A LIBRARY
AND YOU'RE TRYING TO FIND

THINGS ABOUT DEAF LITERATURE,
DO YOU LOOK UNDER "ASL"?

DO YOU LOOK
UNDER "DEAF STUDIES"?

DO YOU LOOK UNDER
"DEAF LITERATURE"?

"ASL LITERATURE, DEAF STUDIES,
DEAF LITERATURE."

WHAT DO YOU DO?

I'M PROPOSING CALLING IT

"LITERATURE
OF THE DEAF" PERHAPS.

SOMEBODY FROM THE AUDIENCE

TALKED ABOUT "AMERICAN
DEAF LITERATURE."

THEY BROUGHT THAT UP.

SOMEBODY SAYS THAT THERE'S
FRENCH DEAF LITERATURE,

AND THEN YOU CAN STUDY
WHAT DEAF LITERATURE IS,

WHICH WOULD, OF COURSE, INCLUDE
THE HISTORY, THE LANGUAGE,

THE CULTURE, AND EVERYTHING ELSE
ABOUT THAT GROUP OF PEOPLE.

SO NOW, COMING BACK
TO THE QUESTION AT HAND,

DEAF...WELL, ASL LITERATURE
THAT WE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE,

WE CAN KEEP THAT.

AND DEAF STUDIES.

SO, I SEE A LOT
OF POSSIBILITIES

THAT IT'S IMPORTANT
FOR US TO LOOK AT.

FIRST WE HAVE TO CLEARLY
DEFINE WHAT WE'RE GONNA CALL

WHAT IT IS
WE'RE LOOKING FOR

SO WE KNOW WHAT TO EVEN
PUT IN AS KEYWORDS

WHEN WE'RE
DOING A SEARCH.

IF YOU'RE DOING RESEARCH
OR STUDIES OR WHATEVER,

YOU NEED TO HAVE SOMETHING
TO BE ABLE TO CONSOLIDATE

WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR.

CONNIE SAYS, WELL,
IT'S TIME TO WRAP UP.

AND WE MAY LEAVE
WITHOUT A CLEAR DEFINITION

OF WHAT DEAF LITERATURE
OR ASL LITERATURE IS.

BUT THE POINT IS,
YOU'LL GO HOME

AND YOU'LL SHARE WITH OTHER
PEOPLE WHERE YOU'VE COME FROM,

AND YOU'LL TALK ABOUT
THESE DIFFERENT IDEAS,

LIKE SAM'S IDEAS
OF SIGN-LANGUAGE STUDIES,

CLAYTON'S IDEAS
ABOUT POETRY,

GIL, BONNIE...

AND BERNARD, EVERYTHING.

THE IDEA
IS THAT THERE'S

NO RIGHT ANSWER,
THERE'S NO WRONG ANSWER,

AND I CAN SEE
THAT THIS CONFERENCE

IS THE BEGINNING
OF A VERY WONDERFUL

AND EXCITING FUTURE
FOR US ALL.

"This project is supported by a Digitizing Hidden Collections grant from the Council on Library and Information Resources (CLIR). The grant program is made possible by funding from the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation."

Concluding panel discussion : what is ASL literature, anyway?